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Path: utzoo!watmath!watnot!watcgl!ksbooth
From: ksbooth@watcgl.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.graphics
Subject: Keywords
Message-ID: <339@watcgl.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 9-Jan-87 18:11:54 EST
Article-I.D.: watcgl.339
Posted: Fri Jan  9 18:11:54 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 10-Jan-87 05:35:36 EST
References: <850@uwmacc.UUCP>
Reply-To: ksbooth@watcgl.UUCP (Kelly Booth)
Organization: U. of Waterloo, Ontario
Lines: 10
Keywords: animation, EGA, IBM, PC

A recent posting contained a list of keywords to trigger some NSA filter.
People who do this should realize that if NSA is actually running such a
filter, they are also probably keeping a list of the articles and all of
the responses to it.  Thus people who reply to such articles may end up
on a list that could be used against them.  The list of junk keywords is
cute, but when it jeopardizes people's professional or personal lives (as
such things inevitably do) or the continued existence of open networks
people should think carefully before engaging in this sort of baiting.
Attitudes at NSA may well need changing, but this is not the appropriate
way to do it.

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Path: utzoo!mnetor!seismo!rutgers!sri-unix!hplabs!decwrl!labrea!
su-russell!goldberg
From: gold...@su-russell.ARPA (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics,misc.misc
Subject: Re: Keywords
Message-ID: <237@su-russell.ARPA>
Date: Sun, 11-Jan-87 21:52:00 EST
Article-I.D.: su-russe.237
Posted: Sun Jan 11 21:52:00 1987
Date-Received: Mon, 12-Jan-87 03:44:22 EST
References: <850@uwmacc.UUCP> <339@watcgl.UUCP>
Reply-To: goldberg@su-russell.UUCP (Jeffrey Goldberg)
Followup-To: misc.misc
Organization: Stanford University, CSLI
Lines: 48
Keywords: Keywords (again)
Xref: mnetor comp.graphics:133 misc.misc:425

In article <339@watcgl.UUCP> ksbooth@watcgl.UUCP (Kelly Booth) writes:
>A recent posting contained a list of keywords to trigger some NSA filter.
>People who do this should realize that if NSA is actually running such a
>filter, they are also probably keeping a list of the articles and all of
>the responses to it.  Thus people who reply to such articles may end up
>on a list that could be used against them.  The list of junk keywords is
>cute, but when it jeopardizes people's professional or personal lives (as
>such things inevitably do) or the continued existence of open networks
>people should think carefully before engaging in this sort of baiting.
>Attitudes at NSA may well need changing, but this is not the appropriate
>way to do it.

First:  I have redirected follow-up to misc.misc.  I don't know how
this ended up in graphics.

Second: You should be able to edit the text of any article you are
following up.  The offensive part of my .signature is a paragraph to
itself and can be deleted very easily.

Third:  If the NSA really is running this filter, they are looking
for articles to have a human read.  Otherwise, the thing is quite
pointless.  I might make it on a list of net trouble makers (but I
really doubt that they care that much).  Certainly any message
simply including someone elses text wouldn't get you put on a list.

Fourth:  What you are suggesting might happen to someone for
accidently including these words in a file has got to be illegal.
Unless you are considering a security clearance application.  I
might be jeopardizing my own chances at getting a clearance by
being a "trouble maker", but someone responding to one of my
messages could only be put on that list if the NSA are idiots.

Nonetheless, people who do not wish to participate in annoying the
NSA they way I and several other have been trying to do should be
careful to delete that last paragraph of my signature in any
message they wish to follow-up.


Jeff Goldberg 
ARPA:   gold...@russell.stanford.edu, gold...@csli.stanford.edu
UUCP:   ...!hplabs!russell.stanford.edu!goldberg

cryptography, terrorist, DES, drugs, cipher, secret, decode,
NSA, CIA, NRO.
 The above is food for the NSA line eater.  Add it to your
 .signature and you too can help overflow the NSA's ability to
 scan all traffic going in or out of the USA looking for
 "significant" words.  (I am told that this is no joke.)

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pollux!ti-csl!tifsie!kent
From: kent@tifsie.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Keywords
Message-ID: <305@tifsie.UUCP>
Date: Mon, 2-Feb-87 19:28:51 EST
Article-I.D.: tifsie.305
Posted: Mon Feb  2 19:28:51 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 4-Feb-87 07:21:49 EST
References: <804@randvax.UUCP>
Organization: TI Process Automation Center, Dallas
Lines: 35

To those persons who add "Intelligence Agency food" to their postings:
your practice is foolish, even downright reckless; to wit:

    1. Any Intelligence Agency worth its salt can _easily_ dedicate
       1 (one) person to read _all_ postings going into or out of the
       U.S.  The fact is, it probably would not require a full-time
       effort.

    2. _IF_ your practice were to be effective (and I'm not saying it
       is), you would (presumably) be over-loading the scanning ability,
       or follow-up investigation ability, of the/any Intelligence Agency.
       This is not in the best interests of your country (and therefore
       yourself), in that _real_ security threats might be over-looked.

    3. You are bringing yourself to the attention of the Intelligence
       Agency.  Believe me, THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.  Those
       people are _dead serious_, and more often than not, DO NOT
       PLAY UNDER THE SAME RULES THAT YOU AND I DO.  They have powers
       and abilities (albeit infrequently used) that you don't even
       want to have nightmares about being used against you. (Ever
       thought about what a cramp in your lifestyle it would be if you
       just disappeared without a trace? :-)

By far, #3 is the one you probably should worry about most.

-- 
Russell Kent			Phone: +1 214 995 3501
Texas Instruments - MS 3635	Net mail:
P.O. Box 655012			...!{ihnp4,uiucdcs}!convex!smu!tifsie!kent	
Dallas, TX 75265		...!ut-sally!im4u!ti-csl!tifsie!kent
-- 
Russell Kent			Phone: +1 214 995 3501
Texas Instruments - MS 3635	Net mail:
P.O. Box 655012			...!{ihnp4,uiucdcs}!convex!smu!tifsie!kent	
Dallas, TX 75265		...!ut-sally!im4u!ti-csl!tifsie!kent

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hoptoad!gnu
From: gnu@hoptoad.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Keywords
Message-ID: <1749@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: Thu, 5-Feb-87 21:28:15 EST
Article-I.D.: hoptoad.1749
Posted: Thu Feb  5 21:28:15 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Feb-87 17:59:07 EST
References: <804@randvax.UUCP> <305@tifsie.UUCP>
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco
Lines: 38

In article <305@tifsie.UUCP>, kent@tifsie.UUCP (Russell Kent) writes:
>     2. _IF_ your practice were to be effective (and I'm not saying it
>        is), you would (presumably) be over-loading the scanning ability,
>        or follow-up investigation ability, of the/any Intelligence Agency.
>        This is not in the best interests of your country (and therefore
>        yourself), in that _real_ security threats might be over-looked.

This is the idea.  Telling our "elected representatives" to stop the
government from wiretapping every phone call or telegram that goes in
or out of the country doesn't seem to have any effect; perhaps
a little grass roots action (all perfectly legal) is called for.
I don't believe that, on balance, the civil liberties of free association
and privacy that are lost, are worth the increase in "security".  I think
it's a lot more likely that my liberty will be lost by my own government
taking it away, rather than by the actions of foreign powers.

>     3. You are bringing yourself to the attention of the Intelligence
>        Agency.  Believe me, THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU WANT TO DO.  Those
>        people are _dead serious_, and more often than not, DO NOT
>        PLAY UNDER THE SAME RULES THAT YOU AND I DO.  They have powers
>        and abilities (albeit infrequently used) that you don't even
>        want to have nightmares about being used against you. (Ever
>        thought about what a cramp in your lifestyle it would be if you
>        just disappeared without a trace? :-)

I heard a rumor that we have laws and a Constitution around here.

If I suddenly disappear due to my net postings I hope that some of you all
will raise a big enough stink to make sure it doesn't happen again.
I would rather risk myself (in an effort to rid our society of people who
think they have these obscene "powers and abilities") than have the whole
population held hostage, terrified to complain about what our government is
doing.
-- 
John Gilmore  {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu   g...@ingres.berkeley.edu
Love your country but never trust its government.
		     -- from a hand-painted road sign in central Pennsylvania
(terrorist, cryptography, DES, drugs, cipher, secret, decode, NSA, CIA, NRO.)

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jade!thoth16!jmm
From: jmm@thoth16.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Keywords
Message-ID: <2476@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Date: Mon, 9-Feb-87 13:06:57 EST
Article-I.D.: jade.2476
Posted: Mon Feb  9 13:06:57 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 11-Feb-87 07:28:31 EST
References: <804@randvax.UUCP> <305@tifsie.UUCP> 
<1749@hoptoad.uucp>
Sender: use...@jade.BERKELEY.EDU
Reply-To: j...@thoth16.BERKELEY.EDU ()
Organization: University of California, Berkeley
Lines: 5

I don't understand the problem.  This is a public newsgroup, 
going out to the whole world.  Why shouldn't people at NSA
be reading postings?  And what's wrong with them using keywords 
to find articles that might be of interest to them?  In fact,
having this ability would be nice in standard rn.

James

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rtech!hoptoad!gnu
From: gnu@hoptoad.UUCP
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Keywords and the NSA vacuum cleaner
Message-ID: <1797@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: Fri, 13-Feb-87 04:59:05 EST
Article-I.D.: hoptoad.1797
Posted: Fri Feb 13 04:59:05 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 15-Feb-87 00:17:47 EST
References: <804@randvax.UUCP> <305@tifsie.UUCP> <1749@hoptoad.uucp> 
<2476@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>
Organization: Nebula Consultants in San Francisco
Lines: 55

In article <24...@jade.BERKELEY.EDU>, j...@thoth16.BERKELEY.EDU writes:
>                      Why shouldn't people at NSA be reading postings?
> And what's wrong with them using keywords to find articles that might
> be of interest to them?  In fact, having this ability would be nice in
> standard rn.

(1)  It's not that the NSA reads public postings; they also read all
the personal email that crosses the US border (e.g. by phone or
telegram).  If you send some mail via utzoo or seismo!mcvax, they
probably see it.  It would be nice for civil rights if this was against
the law, but the NSA is too wired into Congress to see that happen.  It
takes at least a bureaucrat's signature (not a judge or the Attorney
General, since the ECPA) to tap communications between citizens, but
they can tap anything between a citizen and a non-citizen.  Of course,
they find it hard to tell who outside (or inside) the US is a citizen,
so they err on the side of listening to citizens too.

(2)  I've heard that the NSA has more than a few IMPs and hosts on the
Arpanet.  For example, "dockmaster.arpa" is an incognito NSA site.  My pet theory
is that they get copies of all the packets that go in or out of the
Arpanet.  This could explain why the net is so clogged -- and why the
government is being so nice about letting the Arpanet be the long
distance backbone of everybody's noncommercial TCP/IP networks.  If it goes
through their facilities, they can read it legally!!!  If I was funding
the Arpanet and I was the NSA, I for damn sure would be getting copies
of all those packets by all those subversive researchers and students :-).
Remember too, Arpanet access is Nirvana for "WarGames" style system
crackers -- and the NSA can watch *them* learn and explore.

(3)  I agree that keyword scanning software and hardware would be nice.
Maybe we can get the NSA to post some of their programs.  Since they
were written by the government, they are public domain (because the
copyright law doesn't allow the government to own original copyright
in a work -- if our taxes payed to have it done, it's ours.)  We could
request them under the Freedom of Information Act.  I doubt a keyword
scanner would be held by a judge to be privileged under "national insecurity"
guidelines.  Maybe a simple request would pry things loose:

	Dear NSA:

		We know you're out there.

		Please post some good programs for scanning text based
		on keyword searches.

		Thank you.

				Sincerely,

				John Gilmore
				citizen and loyal subject
-- 
John Gilmore  {sun,ptsfa,lll-crg,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu    g...@ingres.berkeley.edu
  Overheard at a funeral: "I know this may be an awkward time, but do
  you recall him ever mentioning source code?"		-- Charles Addams

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