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Path: gmdzi!unido!ira.uka.de!fauern!lan!liebla
From: lie...@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Armin Liebl)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Successors of DES
Message-ID: <4691@tuminfo1.lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de>
Date: 2 Oct 90 12:41:10 GMT
Sender: ne...@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de
Reply-To: lie...@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Armin Liebl)
Organization: Inst. fuer Informatik, TU Muenchen, W. Germany
Lines: 9
Posted: Tue Oct  2 13:41:10 1990

Does anybody know of the encryption algorithms that
the NSA is using instead of DES.
Help would be appreciated.

--
Armin Liebl
Technische Universitaet Muenchen
Institut fuer Informatik
Postfach 202420

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!ogicse!ucsd!ucbvax!hoptoad!gnu
From: gnu@hoptoad.uucp (John Gilmore)
Newsgroups: sci.crypt
Subject: Re: Successors of DES
Message-ID: <12789@hoptoad.uucp>
Date: 10 Oct 90 16:30:18 GMT
References: <4691@tuminfo1.lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de> 
<14016@smoke.BRL.MIL>
Organization: Cygnus Support, Palo Alto
Lines: 31
Posted: Wed Oct 10 17:30:18 1990

lie...@lan.informatik.tu-muenchen.dbp.de (Armin Liebl) writes:
> Does anybody know of the encryption algorithms that
> the NSA is using instead of DES.  Help would be appreciated.

gw...@smoke.BRL.MIL (Doug Gwyn) wrote:
> Surely you must know that such information would be classified,
> and anyone with access to it who disclosed it would be subject to
> severe penalties.

I'd have expected more rational responses from the old-timers on sci.crypt.
I mean, he didn't ask for the keys they're using this week!

I had this impression that in modern cryptography, it was *assumed* that
the adversary knew full details of the algorithm involved, and the only
secret knowledge was the key and key schedule.

Now, NSA has been playing cat-and-mouse recently by not revealing
algorithms, and putting things in "tamper proof" chips, but it is not a
"Surely you must know..." that they haven't publicly revealed ANY
algorithms since DES.  Any serious adversary will have either compromised
the "tamper proof" chips (what man can invent, another can dissect),
or have stolen or bought their plans.  What NSA is doing with this strategy
is keeping THEIR OWN CITIZENS in the dark, because they don't see protecting
their citizens' privacy as part of their job; they're not fooling the KGB.

A more useful question would be, now that NIST has been given full authority
for civilian cryptography, does anybody know of the encryption algorithms
that NIST is using instead of DES.  Help would be appreciated.
-- 
John Gilmore      {sun,pacbell,uunet,pyramid}!hoptoad!gnu        g...@toad.com
Just say no to thugs.  The ones who lock up innocent drug users come to mind.