From: Tilman Baumann
Subject: [Paparazzi-devel] Paparazzi on Linux and Lisa design questions
Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 11:04:15 +0100
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Hello,
I have been follwing this project and the list passively for some time now
and I think I know pretty well how it all works together, and I expect the
rest to come to me when I use it.
I'm getting my airframe soon, which I will fly RC only for a while before
I make it 'smart'.
But since I like to thoroughly think things through very early, I'm having
some ideas or rather questions now.
I like the idea of running the paparazzi airborne software on a linux
system like gumstix. I'm comfortable with linux, I can expand it wherever
I want and there will be enough performance no matter what I do.
UDP telemetry, wifi, mesh networking, digital video stream via wifi and
all those kind of things.
My initial idea was to start something based on Marcus Wolschons efforts
of porting paparazzi to Linux.
However, as it turns out, the question of how to get IO into the system is
still open. So I would need to hack some IO interfaces, (ADC, Radio
decoder, servo output and so on) on a daughter board like Robostix. (Or
BeagleBoard Trainer if I go with the BeagleBoard).
But that would be a lot of work, and quite frankly I'm not really sure
where to start.
So far to my ideas and personal preferences.
I have to say the paparazzi Wiki does not really do a god job of
explaining the architectural differences of the different autopilots.
It took me a very long time to realise that Lisa probably is exactly what
I was thinking about, just already built and working.
It seems a bit like the coming back of the Classix approach, which I like
for some reason.
See
http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Lisa#Software
- Poine/booz2_a8 : this is a biplan with asctec motor controllers and
using stm32 only as io processor - this one is in progress
That was the hint that gave me that idea. So I'm thinking. Do I understand
that correctly? How much sense do my ideas actually make?
Lisa is expensive, is it really worth it?
Can somebody maybe point me to some resources on Lisas architecture? I was
trying to understand it from the source code side of things, but all that
paparazzi build logic is not making it easy for me at the moment.
What parts of the code run where and how is that determined?
I know those questions are a bit random at the time. But I was banging my
head against those thoughts over the weekend and are not much smarter then
before. Part of the problem is that I at the moment don't have a machine
where paparazzi compiles on (I will fix that soon).
I would appreciate if you could share your thoughts on Lisa and or my
ideas of a linux based autopilot. With the right pointers, I should be
able to find my way again :)
Thanks
Tilman Baumann
From: antoine drouin
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Paparazzi on Linux and Lisa design questions
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2010 22:51:38 +0200
Hello Tilman
There's a block schematic of Lisa/L on the wiki
http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Image:Lisa_bd.png
As you see, the board contains a STM32 (cortexM3 @ 72Mhz) with all
peripherals exposed ( UARTS, I2C, SPI, ADCs, CAN, input capture, PWMs)
and a socket for a gumstix Overo ( OMAP3 at 600Mhz). The link between
the two processor is done by SPI and served by DMA on both sides (so
alot of bandwith with little CPU overhead).
This architecture is designed to be flexible: the STM32 has the
potential to run all the current Paparazzi software alone ( that would
be one side of the spektrum ) or the STM32 can be used only as IO
processor and you can run your autopilot on the Overo ( that would be
the other end of the spektrum ). Of course anything in between is
possible, like for example running stabilization on the STM32 and
navigation on the Overo.
I'm not sure if that answers your questions. Sorry for the late answer
Regards
Poine
ps: I know the doc about Lisa sucks. I'm focusing on software those
days but I promise I'll work on documentation as soon as possible
From: Tilman Baumann
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Paparazzi on Linux and Lisa design questions
Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2010 10:52:50 +0100
Thanks.
I'm not sure if anything that complex should be my first contact with
paparazzi but it sounds totally awesome.
Will see, I have to probably ease myself into this whole thing module by
module, it is all happening under tight financial pressure. :)
But I guess when I have that board and try some examples, I will find out
rather quick how it all fits together...
Regards
Tilman
On 5 Aug 2010, at 21:51, antoine drouin wrote:
Hello Tilman
There's a block schematic of Lisa/L on the wiki
http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Image:Lisa_bd.png
As you see, the board contains a STM32 (cortexM3 @ 72Mhz) with all
peripherals exposed ( UARTS, I2C, SPI, ADCs, CAN, input capture, PWMs)
and a socket for a gumstix Overo ( OMAP3 at 600Mhz). The link between
the two processor is done by SPI and served by DMA on both sides (so
alot of bandwith with little CPU overhead).
This architecture is designed to be flexible: the STM32 has the
potential to run all the current Paparazzi software alone ( that would
be one side of the spektrum ) or the STM32 can be used only as IO
processor and you can run your autopilot on the Overo ( that would be
the other end of the spektrum ). Of course anything in between is
possible, like for example running stabilization on the STM32 and
navigation on the Overo.
I'm not sure if that answers your questions. Sorry for the late answer
Regards
Poine
ps: I know the doc about Lisa sucks. I'm focusing on software those
days but I promise I'll work on documentation as soon as possible
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From: antoine drouin
Subject: Re: [Paparazzi-devel] Paparazzi on Linux and Lisa design questions
Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2010 22:25:33 +0200
a simpler bloc diagram :
http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki_images/Lisa_l_bloc_diag_simple.png
I have started to split the doc for Lisa between a developer part and
a user part, but it's still mostly empty for now.
I think we should do the same for the rest of the wiki : users don't
want to be overwhelmed with too technical informations, and developers
don't want to lose time with a bunch of details that may look trivial
to them.
Now how do we get the search function of the wiki to handle that
user/developer separation ? tags ? using two wikis ?
What you guys think ?
Regards
Poine
On Sat, Aug 7, 2010 at 11:52 AM, Tilman Baumann wrote:
> Thanks.
> I'm not sure if anything that complex should be my first contact with
> paparazzi but it sounds totally awesome.
> Will see, I have to probably ease myself into this whole thing module by
> module, it is all happening under tight financial pressure. :)
>
> But I guess when I have that board and try some examples, I will find out
> rather quick how it all fits together...
>
> Regards
> Tilman
>
> On 5 Aug 2010, at 21:51, antoine drouin wrote:
>
>> Hello Tilman
>>
>> There's a block schematic of Lisa/L on the wiki
>>
>> http://paparazzi.enac.fr/wiki/Image:Lisa_bd.png
>>
>> As you see, the board contains a STM32 (cortexM3 @ 72Mhz) with all
>> peripherals exposed ( UARTS, I2C, SPI, ADCs, CAN, input capture, PWMs)
>> and a socket for a gumstix Overo ( OMAP3 at 600Mhz). The link between
>> the two processor is done by SPI and served by DMA on both sides (so
>> alot of bandwith with little CPU overhead).
>> This architecture is designed to be flexible: the STM32 has the
>> potential to run all the current Paparazzi software alone ( that would
>> be one side of the spektrum ) or the STM32 can be used only as IO
>> processor and you can run your autopilot on the Overo ( that would be
>> the other end of the spektrum ). Of course anything in between is
>> possible, like for example running stabilization on the STM32 and
>> navigation on the Overo.
>>
>> I'm not sure if that answers your questions. Sorry for the late answer
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Poine
>>
>> ps: I know the doc about Lisa sucks. I'm focusing on software those
>> days but I promise I'll work on documentation as soon as possible
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Paparazzi-devel mailing list
>> address@hidden
>> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/paparazzi-devel
>
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