[Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
tridge at samba.org tridge at samba.org
Sat Jan 22 16:16:29 EST 2011
Hi All,
I think I need to learn a lot more about flying UAVs, preferably
without crashing an expensive plane too often, and preferably in a way
that I can do it in my local park or my backyard.
My wife has kindly allowed me to get an early birthday present of the
parts for an arducopter UAV. It should allow me to test a scaled down
version of the outback rescue mission (eg. try and find some sort of
smallish target in the area of my local park).
The system will be based on this:
- An arducopter quad copter
http://store.fahpah.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ackit2
currently on backorder
- An ArduPilotMega and IMU board
arrived and working (passes sensor tests etc)
- A MediaTek GPS
http://store.diydrones.com/MediaTek_MT3329_GPS_10Hz_Adapter_Basic_p/mt3329-02.htm
ordered, should arrive in the next week
- A turnigy 2.4GHz RC transmitter
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8992
ordered
- A turnigy 2.4GHz receiver
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=12339
ordered (on backorder)
- some servo cables for APM
http://store.diydrones.com/Servo_Jumper_Female_double_sided_5_cm_p/pr-0003-03-5cm.htm
ordered
- a pandaboard
http://www.pandaboard.com/
on backorder
I think all I'll need after that is a LIPO battery and a camera. I'll
probably start with a simple USB webcam that I have already and I
should be able to pick up a couple of suitable batteries and chargers
from a local hobby store.
With all that equipment on board I won't get long flight times (maybe
10 minutes?) but it should be enough to test mission planning, search
algorithms, integration of the pandaboard with the ardupilot etc.
I also should be able to fly it in the carpark at the MHV space, where
hopefully I can get a hand from other people on mounting systems for
the camera etc.
I know that much of this stuff won't be useful for the full project,
but I think I really need to learn more about this type of UAV task,
and the quadcopter seems like the best platform to do that on.
Cheers, Tridge
[Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
Jack Pittar jpittar at bigpond.net.au
Sat Jan 22 21:40:06 EST 2011
Hi Trige
The quadracopter is far more difficult to manually or autonomously fly than
a plane. You are on an arduous learning curve!
I can fly a camera on a plane anytime.
Using video on 2.4 GHz and radio control on 2.4 GHz theoretically should
not interfere, but it it is known that in fact that they do interact and
cause problems when mounted on the same aircraft.
The ridiculously cheap 2.4 GHz radios from Hobby King are not presented as
100%. The risk is to the buyer, and customers are reporting they either seem
to work very well or not at all. They compensate by buying more than one.
I am using the ublox GPS. It would nice if the same GPS is chosen in future
for backup and interchangeability purposes.
With a high power LiPo batteries you will need a balanced charger, and
probably more than one battery.
What do you have to do for your wife to allow you to buy these toys ?
Jack.
-----Original Message-----
From: canberrauav-bounces at canberrauav.com
[mailto:canberrauav-bounces at canberrauav.com]On Behalf Of Eyal Lebedinsky
Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2011 7:19 PM
To: canberrauav at canberrauav.com
Subject: Re: [Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
On 01/22/11 16:16, tridge at samba.org wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I think I need to learn a lot more about flying UAVs, preferably
> without crashing an expensive plane too often, and preferably in a way
> that I can do it in my local park or my backyard.
>
> My wife has kindly allowed me to get an early birthday present of the
> parts for an arducopter UAV. It should allow me to test a scaled down
> version of the outback rescue mission (eg. try and find some sort of
> smallish target in the area of my local park).
>
> The system will be based on this:
>
> - An arducopter quad copter
> http://store.fahpah.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ackit2
> currently on backorder
>
> - An ArduPilotMega and IMU board
> arrived and working (passes sensor tests etc)
>
> - A MediaTek GPS
>
http://store.diydrones.com/MediaTek_MT3329_GPS_10Hz_Adapter_Basic_p/mt3329-0
2.htm
> ordered, should arrive in the next week
>
> - A turnigy 2.4GHz RC transmitter
>
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=8992
> ordered
>
> - A turnigy 2.4GHz receiver
>
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=12339
> ordered (on backorder)
>
> - some servo cables for APM
>
http://store.diydrones.com/Servo_Jumper_Female_double_sided_5_cm_p/pr-0003-0
3-5cm.htm
> ordered
>
> - a pandaboard
> http://www.pandaboard.com/
http://pandaboard.org
> on backorder
>
> I think all I'll need after that is a LIPO battery and a camera. I'll
> probably start with a simple USB webcam that I have already and I
> should be able to pick up a couple of suitable batteries and chargers
> from a local hobby store.
>
> With all that equipment on board I won't get long flight times (maybe
> 10 minutes?) but it should be enough to test mission planning, search
> algorithms, integration of the pandaboard with the ardupilot etc.
>
> I also should be able to fly it in the carpark at the MHV space, where
> hopefully I can get a hand from other people on mounting systems for
> the camera etc.
>
> I know that much of this stuff won't be useful for the full project,
> but I think I really need to learn more about this type of UAV task,
> and the quadcopter seems like the best platform to do that on.
>
> Cheers, Tridge
> _______________________________________________
> Canberrauav mailing list
> Canberrauav at canberrauav.com
> http://www.canberrauav.com/mailman/listinfo/canberrauav
>
--
Eyal Lebedinsky (eyal at eyal.emu.id.au)
[Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
tridge at samba.org tridge at samba.org
Sat Jan 22 22:52:24 EST 2011
> The quadracopter is far more difficult to manually or autonomously fly than
> a plane. You are on an arduous learning curve!
it should be fun though :-)
I don't think I'll try much to fly it manually, as I know I'll be
hopeless at that. Instead I'll concentrate on using the APM to fly
it. How hard can it be? :-))
> Using video on 2.4 GHz and radio control on 2.4 GHz theoretically should
> not interfere, but it it is known that in fact that they do interact and
> cause problems when mounted on the same aircraft.
> The ridiculously cheap 2.4 GHz radios from Hobby King are not presented as
> 100%. The risk is to the buyer, and customers are reporting they either seem
> to work very well or not at all.
ok - if I need to get another then I'll do that. I'm mostly getting an
RC as the default config of the Ardupilot code only works if you have
an RC attached to the board, even when run as a HIL simulation. Thus
far I've been hacking the code to avoid that (faking up some RC zero
values, faking the selector switch, and disabling the mixing code),
but I'd like to be able to try the as-released version of ardupilot,
especially for the quadcopter. If I have an RC I'll be able to try
that.
> They compensate by buying more than one.
If I do end up getting another one, which one would you recommend?
> I am using the ublox GPS. It would nice if the same GPS is chosen in future
> for backup and interchangeability purposes.
yep, and we can get another one if we need to. I'd already ordered
mine when I saw what you had. I chose the MediaTek as its 10Hz, which
I thought might help. I got the one with the connection board and
patch antenna. We can experiment and see which of the two models works
better.
It might actually be sensible to have two different GPS units on the
final project plane, and having them as different models might not be
a bad idea either. They are very light, and if we lose GPS signal
we're finished, so having two on-board GPSes might be useful. It
depends how reliable they really are.
> With a high power LiPo batteries you will need a balanced charger, and
> probably more than one battery.
what charger and battery would you recommend? I'm thinking of about
4Ah or so.
Also, is there a particular place you'd recommend getting them?
Cheers, Tridge
[Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
Jack Pittar jpittar at bigpond.net.au
Sun Jan 23 16:44:00 EST 2011
Hi Trige,
Before the UAV project came along I was toying with the idea of a
quadracopter.
How hard they are to fly depends on the electronics package, and how quickly
you get the gains trimmed out. No doubt you will start with some sort of
training wheels like they do with model helicopters - two sticks about 1200
long making a cross, with a light ball on each tip.
I have been told that while learning, when it leaps off the ground and comes
towards you, all you can do is throw the transmitter at it. Watch out for
dogs in the park thinking it is a frisbee. When it is flapping around on the
ground and you are jumping up and down on it in frustration, I will remind
you of your words "how hard can it be?"
The orange receivers they had at Hobby King for $15 were the dubious ones. I
hope you are reading the Hobby King sponsored forum
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php Following this is almost a hobby in
itself. I have not read any reports about the transmitters.
The DIY-drones site recommended the ublox media-tek. I bought the expensive
ublox one because the media-tek was not in stock. I later found they have
not developed the code for media-tek yet. I also read elsewhere that the
best rate the Ardupilot (and most other autopilots)can handle is 4Hz. These
GPS units put data out in either one serial string per second, or in a
binary mode I know nothing about yet. Sparkfun will pre-set it in this mode
on purchase.
The present plan for the aircraft has the aircraft being autonomous in its
own right with its own GPS. During practice and testing I will talk to to
the autopilot from a laptop via my xbee modems. When we are ready, the
mission control computer with its own GPS will splice into the serial line
between the autopilot and the Xbee modem. For long range flying we will
replace the Xbee. The mission control computer will be installed in a
demountable box so that the creator take it home and play with it during
development. I expect it will also drive the various functions on the
aircraft like the cargo drop and the camera controls.
Proper balance chargers are almost the only ones you get nowadays. All LiPo
batteries have a second low power connector which has a connection to each
cell, so the voltage of each cell can be monitored and kept the same as it
charges. Most of the chargers depend on having a 12 volt battery to provide
power, which at times can be a nuisance. Mine is the "e-station B6
charger/discharger". It can be plugged into the mains, or connected to a 12
volt battery. Different types of LiPo have different minimum and maximum
voltages. You might find it useful to manage Fe LiPos as found in Power
tools, like the A123 cells. These came out after thse automatic chargers
became all the rage, and some do not have them in their program. When you
start playing with this sort of gear you will find you want more than one
charger. The latest gimmick for chargers is to be able to charge four
different batteries at once. And you must have a fire proof battery charging
sack. Welcome to a whole new world of things to spend money on.
Hobby King is the cheapest and probably most popular for all this stuff.
Monaro Hobbies and Toyworld both in Fyshwick are worth a visit.
Perthrc.com.au and wattsuprc.com.au are good online stores.
The quadracopter may come with a batery and a charger. If not, it is most
likely to specify the battery, because the voltage, capacity, and format are
prety critical.
Jack.
-----Original Message-----
From: tridge at samba.org [mailto:tridge at samba.org]
Sent: Saturday, 22 January 2011 10:52 PM
To: Jack Pittar
Cc: canberrauav at canberrauav.com
Subject: Re: [Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
> The quadracopter is far more difficult to manually or autonomously fly
than
> a plane. You are on an arduous learning curve!
it should be fun though :-)
I don't think I'll try much to fly it manually, as I know I'll be
hopeless at that. Instead I'll concentrate on using the APM to fly
it. How hard can it be? :-))
> Using video on 2.4 GHz and radio control on 2.4 GHz theoretically should
> not interfere, but it it is known that in fact that they do interact and
> cause problems when mounted on the same aircraft.
> The ridiculously cheap 2.4 GHz radios from Hobby King are not presented
as
> 100%. The risk is to the buyer, and customers are reporting they either
seem
> to work very well or not at all.
ok - if I need to get another then I'll do that. I'm mostly getting an
RC as the default config of the Ardupilot code only works if you have
an RC attached to the board, even when run as a HIL simulation. Thus
far I've been hacking the code to avoid that (faking up some RC zero
values, faking the selector switch, and disabling the mixing code),
but I'd like to be able to try the as-released version of ardupilot,
especially for the quadcopter. If I have an RC I'll be able to try
that.
> They compensate by buying more than one.
If I do end up getting another one, which one would you recommend?
> I am using the ublox GPS. It would nice if the same GPS is chosen in
future
> for backup and interchangeability purposes.
yep, and we can get another one if we need to. I'd already ordered
mine when I saw what you had. I chose the MediaTek as its 10Hz, which
I thought might help. I got the one with the connection board and
patch antenna. We can experiment and see which of the two models works
better.
It might actually be sensible to have two different GPS units on the
final project plane, and having them as different models might not be
a bad idea either. They are very light, and if we lose GPS signal
we're finished, so having two on-board GPSes might be useful. It
depends how reliable they really are.
> With a high power LiPo batteries you will need a balanced charger, and
> probably more than one battery.
what charger and battery would you recommend? I'm thinking of about
4Ah or so.
Also, is there a particular place you'd recommend getting them?
Cheers, Tridge
[Canberrauav] arducopter mini-project
tridge at samba.org tridge at samba.org
Mon Jan 24 09:00:55 EST 2011
Hi Jack,
> How hard they are to fly depends on the electronics package, and how quickly
> you get the gains trimmed out. No doubt you will start with some sort of
> training wheels like they do with model helicopters - two sticks about 1200
> long making a cross, with a light ball on each tip.
What I've ordered is an ArduCopter, see this page:
http://code.google.com/p/arducopter/wiki/ArduCopter_Quad
It is specifically made for the ArduPilotMega, and (supposedly!) to be
easy to fly. I've seen enough people trying to learn to fly model
helis that I know they are normally extremely difficult to fly. That's
why I ordered one that is designed to go with the particular autopilot
we're using, and which is supposed to be able to fly autonomously
right out of the box. I'll find out if that claim is true when I try
it :-)
> The orange receivers they had at Hobby King for $15 were the dubious ones. I
> hope you are reading the Hobby King sponsored forum
> http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/index.php Following this is almost a hobby in
> itself. I have not read any reports about the transmitters.
I ordered it because of the comments in this thread:
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/turnigy-9x-9ch-transmitter
I particularly like the fact that there is alternative open source
firmware available, see:
http://code.google.com/p/th9x/
I thought it might be useful to mod the firmware for the project.
> The DIY-drones site recommended the ublox media-tek. I bought the expensive
> ublox one because the media-tek was not in stock. I later found they have
> not developed the code for media-tek yet.
Maybe you ordered before they added the code for the MediaTek?
MediaTek support was added into the svn tree in September last year
(see libraries/AP_GPS/AP_GPS_MTK.cpp). It seems there were some early
problems with resetting between binary/ascii mode, but that was fixed
in the 1.01 release (see
http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/ardupilotmega-101)
Also see: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/new-gps-moduletiny-10hz
Cheers, Tridge
Copyright 2011 http://canberrauav.org.au/