Path: sparky!uunet!ukma!tulane!uflorida!dream!Ray_Hines
From: Ray_Hi...@dream.uucp (Ray Hines)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: WIRED MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <Ray_Hines.0an7@dream.uucp>
Date: 6 Feb 93 11:22:54 GMT
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For those of you who are still looking for WIRED magazine, I just bought an
issue from Waldenbooks at the local mall. Might want to check them out if
there is one near you. Pretty interesting magazine.
-- Via DLG Pro v0.995
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From: matt...@sun44.synercom.hounix.org (Charles Mattair)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <1993Feb8.043031.27622@sun44.synercom.hounix.org>
Organization: Synercom Technology, Inc., Houston, TX
References: <Ray_Hines.0an7@dream.uucp>
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1993 04:30:31 GMT
Lines: 17
In article <Ray_Hines.0...@dream.uucp> Ray_Hi...@dream.uucp (Ray Hines) writes:
>For those of you who are still looking for WIRED magazine, I just bought an
>issue from Waldenbooks at the local mall. Might want to check them out if
>there is one near you. Pretty interesting magazine.
If you are an EFF member, you should get a copy of the first issue via
US snail. EFF "provided" the membership list....
Not a complaint people - I know this happens all the time. Actually, it
is a pretty interesting mag. A little heavy on graphics but with some
of the more distinctive ads you've ever seen (Logitec for instance).
enjoy...
--
Charles Mattair matt...@synercom.hounix.org
Any opinions offered are my own and do not reflect those of my employer.
Cheap, fast, good - choose two.
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From: goldfoot-j...@yale.edu (Josh A Goldfoot)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <goldfoot-josh-100293204016@ccl-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>
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<1993Feb8.043031.27622@sun44.synercom.hounix.org> <1993Feb10.082800.17477@nwnexus.WA.COM>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 01:45:55 GMT
Lines: 16
In regards to the EFF "loaning" its membership list..
My name is already on enough mailing lists so that I don't even care about
the possibility of my privacy being compromised. (I doubt there was that
danger). I am a little curious, however; what's the use of protecting the
mailing list if the first magazine who asks can look at it? I doubt the
Wired people took down all our names, but I don't like the idea of the EFF
being responsible for sending me junk mail -- particularly mail designed
for someone other than the EFF's financial gain.
The magazine itself.. the articles did look interesting, except the page
designers were apparently on some sort of perception-altering drug when
they went to work. Looking at the first few pages gave me a headache. And
the ad that Logitech chose to print was so thoroughly disgusting (it showed
a baby boy urinating on himself) that I doubt that I'll ever consider
buying a Logitech product..
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From: f...@eff.org (Cliff Figallo)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.164111.21467@eff.org>
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References: <Ray_Hines.0an7@dream.uucp>
<1993Feb8.043031.27622@sun44.synercom.hounix.org>
<1993Feb10.082800.17477@nwnexus.WA.COM>
<goldfoot-josh-100293204016@ccl-kstar-node.net.yale.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 16:41:11 GMT
Lines: 19
goldfoot-j...@yale.edu (Josh A Goldfoot) writes:
>In regards to the EFF "loaning" its membership list..
>danger). I am a little curious, however; what's the use of protecting the
>mailing list if the first magazine who asks can look at it? I doubt the
>Wired people took down all our names, but I don't like the idea of the EFF
>being responsible for sending me junk mail -- particularly mail designed
>for someone other than the EFF's financial gain.
Your protest is so noted. I admit to going out on a bit of a limb in
approving this. On the whole, reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
This was a special case, not just "the first magazine who asks." Sorry
for your personal discomfort in the matter.
--
<<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>>
Cliff Figallo f...@eff.org
Electronic Frontier Foundation (617)576-4500 (voice)
Online Communications Coordinator (617)576-4520 (fax)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: hsh...@cis.umassd.edu (Howard S Shubs)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
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References: <Ray_Hines.0an7@dream.uucp>
<1993Feb8.043031.27622@sun44.synercom.hounix.org>
<1993Feb10.082800.17477@nwnexus.WA.COM>
<goldfoot-josh-100293204016@ccl-kstar-node.net.yale.edu> <1993Feb11.164111.21467@eff.org>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 20:01:14 GMT
Lines: 29
In <1993Feb11.164111.21...@eff.org> f...@eff.org (Cliff Figallo) writes:
>goldfoot-j...@yale.edu (Josh A Goldfoot) writes:
>>In regards to the EFF "loaning" its membership list..
>>danger). I am a little curious, however; what's the use of protecting the
>>mailing list if the first magazine who asks can look at it? I doubt the
>>Wired people took down all our names, but I don't like the idea of the EFF
>>being responsible for sending me junk mail -- particularly mail designed
>>for someone other than the EFF's financial gain.
>Your protest is so noted. I admit to going out on a bit of a limb in
>approving this. On the whole, reaction has been overwhelmingly positive.
>This was a special case, not just "the first magazine who asks." Sorry
>for your personal discomfort in the matter.
Actually, I liked the Wired magazine. I found it interesting, and while
I don't understand how the Logitech ad sells mice, I thought it was funny,
not "disgusting" as Mr. Goldfoot seems to find.
It's details like this that make me think that my EFF membership is worth-
while. Remember, this is -not- the first time that the EFF membership has
been sent a magazine; a while back the EFF purchased a lot of copies of
Scientific American and sent them to its membership. In both cases, the
magazine was of interest to members.
--
Howard S Shubs hsh...@bix.com For to win 100 victories in 100
The Denim Adept hsh...@cis.umassd.edu battles is not the acme of skill.
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From: gt...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 09:14:56 +0000
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It's details like this that make me think that my EFF membership is worth-
while. Remember, this is -not- the first time that the EFF membership has
been sent a magazine; a while back the EFF purchased a lot of copies of
Scientific American and sent them to its membership. In both cases, the
magazine was of interest to members.
Sure. The only question is whether WIRED actually received the eff address
list or only handed the magazines to eff's agents to be labeled. A lot of
us deliberately don't subscribe to possibly controversial magazines because
we know that security agencies in the past have obtained readership lists
of publications to build profiles of ordinary citizens which are then used
to target them as possible subversives; and the electronic frontier appears
to be considered the home of the latter day subversives. I'm sure subscribing
to wired, mondo and 2600 would be well on the way to triggering a flag on
the Secret Service's computer. Mind you, eff is probably already at the
head of that list of dubious groups :-)
G
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From: r...@eff.org (Rita Marie Rouvalis)
Subject: Re: WIRED MAGAZINE
Message-ID: <1993Feb14.162925.14581@eff.org>
Originator: r...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <9302130914.AA26186@pizzabox.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sun, 14 Feb 1993 16:29:25 GMT
Lines: 23
In article <9302130914.AA26...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> gt...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk
(Graham Toal) writes:
>Sure. The only question is whether WIRED actually received the eff address
>list or only handed the magazines to eff's agents to be labeled. A lot of
Although I was not in the loop on this one (I was just as
surprised as everyone else to get an issue in my mailbox), I do know
how the mailing list was handled. EFF's mailing list was given to
WIRED's distributer for one-time use to send out the magazines. This
is functionally identical to when the Scientific American's were sent
out, except that the mailing list was given to EFF's mailing house for
one-time distribution. EFF paid all the costs for Sci Am. to go out;
WIRED paid for itself to go out. There are false names and addresses
in the EFF mailing list that I put there specifically to check and see
if our distributor was copying and selling the list.
So, the WIRED is a nifty free gift from EFF in cooperation
with the magazine, and your name and address was not compromised to
receive it. Sure it was a marketing ploy on the part of WIRED, but
I think Cliff believes the benefits to the EFF membership of reading
the magazine outweighs the filthy lucre/capitalism of the act.
Rita
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From: r...@cs.ucsd.edu (Rik Belew)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: EFF & Wired's mailing list
Message-ID: <46876@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>
Date: 24 Mar 93 20:10:01 GMT
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I am new to this News group, and since the issues
in question predate the archive I can see (> 18 Mar),
I may be coming in late on a discussion that already
happened.
In any case, I sent the following Email to eff@eff
and Louis Rossetto at Wired on 5 March, but have not heard
any response, from anyone. I'd like to have a new zine
to like, but this unresponsiveness concerns me almost
as much as the original issue. Does anyone know anything
about this?
Rik Belew
From rik Fri Mar 5 12:09:18 1993
To: bosw...@well.com.sf.ca.us, e...@eff.org, l...@wired.com
Subject: Wired's mailing list and EFF
Cc: dnoelle, kube, rik
Mr. Louis Rossetto and EFF members,
I just called Wired's 800 number with the intention of
ordering two subscriptions, one for me and a gift.
Just to be certain, I asked the woman I spoke with (Amy)
about Wired's policy regarding their mailing list, and
especially the consumer profile info that I might have given
on the (p. 96/97) bingo card.
To my surprise, and only after some sort of evasive answers,
Amy told me that if I requested, my info would not be sold,
but that the default was that it would, or at least could.
I suppose this answer should not surprise me, relative
to the standard practices in the publishing industries. But
I choose to remain surprised, at least for a couple of minutes.
In part, because Wired certainly seems to be attempting
to SEEM non-standard. (cf. "We are not the product of some
megabucks media conglomerate -- we are that rarity, a genuine
start-up, a group of individuals with a mission." - from
the bingo card).
The real source of my surprise, though, is that Wired's
relationship with EFF would make think they should know
better. I chose to be bemused rather than upset when
the premier issue of Wired arrived with a letter from
EFF telling of the special circumstances that caused the
organization to give (considering the complicated
overlapping interests of Wired and EFF participants, one
is tempted to say 'sell') their mailing list to Wired.
These same individuals should, at least, know that
the difference between active and passive inclusion in
mailing list/consumer profile databases is huge, and
that EFF members would be interested in this question.
Did these issues even occur to any of you? If they
did, I'd be very curious to hear your thoughts on these
matters. Thank you for your attention.
--
Richard K. Belew r...@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engr. Dept. (0114) 619 / 534-2601
Univ. California -- San Diego 619 / 534-5288 (msgs)
La Jolla, CA 92093 619 / 534-7029 (fax)
--
Richard K. Belew r...@cs.ucsd.edu
Computer Science & Engr. Dept. (0114) 619 / 534-2601
Univ. California -- San Diego 619 / 534-5288 (msgs)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: f...@eff.org (Cliff Figallo)
Subject: Re: EFF & Wired's mailing list
Message-ID: <fig-310393172326@fig.eff.org>
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 22:25:11 GMT
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In article <46...@sdcc12.ucsd.edu>, r...@cs.ucsd.edu (Rik Belew) wrote:
> In any case, I sent the following Email to eff@eff
> and Louis Rossetto at Wired on 5 March, but have not heard
> any response, from anyone. I'd like to have a new zine
> to like, but this unresponsiveness concerns me almost
> as much as the original issue. Does anyone know anything
> about this?
Rik, I'm the one to contact about this (currently) and your message was not
forwarded to me for some reason.
> To my surprise, and only after some sort of evasive answers,
> Amy told me that if I requested, my info would not be sold,
> but that the default was that it would, or at least could.
We don't have any influence over WIRED's mail list policies. They are
trying to expand subscriptions and make money. Not too surprising.
> The real source of my surprise, though, is that Wired's
> relationship with EFF would make think they should know
> better. I chose to be bemused rather than upset when
> the premier issue of Wired arrived with a letter from
> EFF telling of the special circumstances that caused the
> organization to give (considering the complicated
> overlapping interests of Wired and EFF participants, one
> is tempted to say 'sell') their mailing list to Wired.
> These same individuals should, at least, know that
> the difference between active and passive inclusion in
> mailing list/consumer profile databases is huge, and
> that EFF members would be interested in this question.
It's good that you brought this up to them. They are as or more open to
feedback than any other magazine staff I know of, short of Whole Earth
Review.
<<<<<<<<****>>>>>>>>****************<<<<<<<<****>>>>>>>>
Cliff Figallo f...@eff.org
Online Communications Coordinator Voice (617)576-4506
Electronic Frontier Foundation Fax (617)576-4520