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From: j...@kaos.Stanford.EDU (Jim Helman)
Newsgroups: gnu.gcc
Subject: HELP me not buy a MAC II
Message-ID: <JIM.89Jun12163523@kaos.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 12 Jun 89 23:35:23 GMT
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Posted: Tue Jun 13 00:35:23 1989
Apologies. This is a followup to the discussion that belongs
elsewhere.
Our group is currently looking at buying some Mac II's. Their
function would be to prepare figures and presentation slides using
MacDraft or PowerPoint. They would replace our aging collection of
512K Macs.
We have a number of Unix workstations (Sun, Dec, and Silicon
Graphics). A priori, I prefer Unix workstations to Macs. I can make
a good case for buying more Unix boxes rather than Macs, but only if
there is a WYSIWYG drawing tool (X or Suntools based, preferably free
software) that can be used for generating high quality graphics and
presentation slides with the same ease as the aforementioned Mac based
tools.
I already know of:
problems
xfig version 1.4.3: slow
not as easy to use
not as powerful
idraw InterViews 2.4: best free X drawing program I've seen
good interface and flexible
but still not quite as good as MacDraft
If you guys really want people not to buy Mac's, you have to provide a
simple, non-political reason: that you have to have something better
to offer.
Please reply to me directly.
Jim Helman
Department of Applied Physics P.O. Box 10494
Stanford University Stanford, CA 94309
(j...@thrush.stanford.edu) (415) 723-4940
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tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!AI.MIT.EDU!rms
From: r...@AI.MIT.EDU
Newsgroups: gnu.gcc
Subject: HELP me not buy a MAC II
Message-ID: <8906151800.AA00328@sugar-bombs.ai.mit.edu>
Date: 15 Jun 89 18:00:55 GMT
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If you guys really want people not to buy Mac's, you have to provide a
simple, non-political reason: that you have to have something better
to offer.
What you are saying, in effect, is that everyone is apolitical and
considers only their short-term self interest.
This is not completely correct. Some people do consider long-term
public interest in making their decisions. Reaching these people is
better than reaching no one.
For most Americans, most of the time, you may be right. However, I
think that is a situation to be regretted. Even people who rarely
consider these questions might be able to do so occasionally. By raising
these questions, we can encourage more long-term thinking.
As for making technically better alternatives, I'm doing the best I can.
If someone would like to improve idraw, that would be a good contribution
to GNU.
Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!shelby!helens!jim
From: j...@kaos.Stanford.EDU (Jim Helman)
Newsgroups: gnu.gcc
Subject: doing it freely
Message-ID: <JIM.89Jun15152536@kaos.Stanford.EDU>
Date: 15 Jun 89 22:25:36 GMT
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<8906151800.AA00328@sugar-bombs.ai.mit.edu>
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In-reply-to: rms@AI.MIT.EDU's message of 15 Jun 89 18:00:55 GMT
RMS: Some people do consider long-term public interest in making their
decisions. Reaching these people is better than reaching no one.
By raising these questions, we can encourage more long-term thinking.
Spoken like a hard core organizer. But why not reach both groups? It
would have a MUCH wider impact to supply BOTH political reasons and
practical ones, with the emphasis on the practical. The major goal
should be letting people know about specific pieces of free software
that can replace common Mac applications.
Things I think would be useful:
1) A list of software, free and commercial(!), that can
replace applications on Macs (drawing programs, spread sheets,
etc.) I'm still using the old Gosling->Weiser->Bond sc Unix
spread sheet program. Is there anything newer?
2) When free software requires a substantial software platform
to build, e.g. idraw which needs InterViews which needs g++,
libg+ and gcc, it would be great if someone could put binaries
for the major machine types out for ftp.
I know that many will argue that commercial software should not be
included in any discussion here. That depends on whether the main
goal is to HELP PEOPLE learn what the alternatives are to using the
blacklisted products or to maintain the purity of the discussion. In
response to my post, I appreciated receiving recommendations of both
commercial and free software, including a suggestion on A/UX from
someone at Apple. As my previous message indicates, I learned of a
very viable non-commercial solution.
To my mind, the free communication and exchange of both ideas and
software are important. I think Apple's legal claims, if upheld, are
very dangerous because they could stifle both of these. But the
freedom of ideas is clearly more important than that of software. The
latter can't even exist without the former.
When free software can do a better job, allow it to win on its own
merits (as gnuemacs does against Unipress, as gcc does against most
cc's or in my application, as idraw does against MacDraft). When free
software can't compete on this basis, the dedicated people will still
use it (and improve it), but let the others know where things really
stand. In short, don't sacrifice the free exchange of ideas for the
sake of that of software. News blackouts only decrease the credibilty
of those who restrict communication.
Let everyone speak.
-jim