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From: r...@gnu.org (Richard Stallman)
Subject: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/14
Message-ID: <199908141615.KAA03681@wijiji.santafe.edu>#1/1
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I've heard that there is a cheap kind of box now on sale
called a TiVO, which might come with a GNU/Linux system on it.

Is anyone in a position to check whether they are distributing
sources, as the GPL says they must?  I have no reason as of now to
think that they are failing to do so, but companies new to the
community often make mistakes in this area.  If they have done so,
we may as well get it corrected now rather than later.

If you can get access to one and find out, please tell me
what you find.

From: TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com>
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/14
Message-ID: <7p4l6m$6fj$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1
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You could just ask!

Yes, we use Linux on a PPC.

All our source modifications are available on CD.  You may acquire a CD
by sending $24.95 to:

TiVo, Inc.
Attn: Richard Bullwinkle
894 Ross Drive
Sunnyvale, CA  94089

We state so in our manual, as required by the GNU Public License.

Please feel to address any questions to me.

Regards,
Richard Bullwinkle
TiVo Webmaster
webmas...@tivo.com


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From: deck...@home.com (Decklin Foster)
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/14
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TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com> writes:

> All our source modifications are available on CD.  You may acquire a CD
> by sending $24.95 to:

It costs you $24.95 to burn a CD and mail it to me? I'm not sure I
believe that. Also, why is it not on an FTP server? If it is, *please*
correct me.

From: TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com>
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/14
Message-ID: <7p4s2c$b1f$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1
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Sorry Decklin, I don't disclose my salery to anyone except my wife, and
even there I fudge a bit.  What it costs me to burn a CD you'll never
know.  :)

We have chosen not to post the code on the net at this time, but
according to the GPL, you may purchase the CD and legally post it for
all.

Cheers,
Richard Bullwinkle
TiVo Webmaster

In article <slrn7rbp6v.18d.deck...@c26469-a.clnvl1.ct.home.com>,
  deck...@home.com (Decklin Foster) wrote:
> TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com> writes:
>
> > All our source modifications are available on CD.  You may acquire
a CD
> > by sending $24.95 to:
>
> It costs you $24.95 to burn a CD and mail it to me? I'm not sure I
> believe that. Also, why is it not on an FTP server? If it is, *please*
> correct me.
>
>


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From: cbbro...@news.brownes.org (Christopher B. Browne)
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/15
Message-ID: <slrn7rc2qf.pd2.cbbrowne@knuth.brownes.org>#1/1
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Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

On Sat, 14 Aug 1999 20:56:57 GMT, TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com>
posted: 
>You could just ask!
>
>Yes, we use Linux on a PPC.

Much in the way of RT extensions?

>All our source modifications are available on CD.  You may acquire a CD
>by sending $24.95 to:
>
>TiVo, Inc.
>Attn: Richard Bullwinkle
>894 Ross Drive
>Sunnyvale, CA  94089
>
>We state so in our manual, as required by the GNU Public License.

Cool.

>Please feel to address any questions to me.

Can we call you "Rocky"?  Or will we find our mailboxes filled with
hatemail?  :-)

-- 
"Sigh.  I like to think it's just the Linux people who want to be on the
`leading edge' so bad they walk right off the precipice."  
-- Craig E. Groeschel
cbbro...@hex.net- <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>

From: Alexandre Oliva <ol...@dcc.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/15
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On Aug 14, 1999, TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com> wrote:

> In article <slrn7rbp6v.18d.deck...@c26469-a.clnvl1.ct.home.com>,
>   deck...@home.com (Decklin Foster) wrote:
>> TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com> writes:
>> 
>> > All our source modifications are available on CD.  You may acquire
> a CD
>> > by sending $24.95 to:
>> 
>> It costs you $24.95 to burn a CD and mail it to me? I'm not sure I
>> believe that. Also, why is it not on an FTP server? If it is, *please*
>> correct me.

> Sorry Decklin, I don't disclose my salery to anyone except my wife, and
> even there I fudge a bit.  What it costs me to burn a CD you'll never
> know.  :)

We must assume it is $24.95 or more, since the GPL says:

  3. You may copy and distribute the Program (or a work based on it,
under Section 2) in object code or executable form under the terms of
Sections 1 and 2 above provided that you also do one of the following:
[...]
b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three
    years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your
                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete
    ^^^^
    machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be
    distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium
    customarily used for software interchange; or,

But I also find it hard to believe that it costs you that much to burn
a CD.

-- 
Alexandre Oliva http://www.dcc.unicamp.br/~oliva IC-Unicamp, Bra[sz]il
oliva@{dcc.unicamp.br,guarana.{org,com}} aoliva@{acm.org,computer.org}
oliva@{gnu.org,kaffe.org,{egcs,sourceware}.cygnus.com,samba.org}
** I may forward mail about projects to mailing lists; please use them

From: TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com>
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/15
Message-ID: <7p788e$qk1$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1
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> Much in the way of RT extensions?

I'm not sure... I am a webmaster.  Once upon a time I was lead QE on
TiVo, but still rarely looked at OS code.  I will check it out and get
back to you.

As for the cost, I find it quite amusing that folks have time to debate
such things.  So far I have burned 4, and people have requested 2.
This is not a form of income for for TiVo.  It doesn't show up on our
business plans!

If you guys want to help out with the burning, we are definitely
hiring.  Send resumes to employm...@tivo.com.

> Can we call you "Rocky"?  Or will we find our mailboxes filled with
> hatemail?  :-)

Finally, you can call me Rocky... but I don't get it.  Is that a
reference to Stallone movie?  I've never heard that before. :)

-Richard Bullwinkle
TiVo Webmaster


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From: eriklbr...@aol.comnospam (ErikLBrown)
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/18
Message-ID: <19990818105531.00347.00000431@ng-co1.aol.com>#1/1
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X-Admin: n...@aol.com

Making sure the makers of TiVO honor the GPL if they have used any GNU software
is a good thing. However, there is another issue that people should be
concerned about: privacy.

There is a show called "Digital Duo" that reviews computer technology.  The two
hosts are Stephen Manes, who writes for both Forbes Magazine and PC World, and
Susan Gregory Thomas, who writes for both U.S. News & World Report and New
Woman.  The TiVO name sounded familiar, so I did some searching through their
show description archives.  I found the show I was looking for at the following
URL:

http://www.digitalduo.com/205_dig.html

Here is the next to last paragraph relating to TiVO and its competitor, Replay
TV:

"But the biggest difference between TiVo and Replay relates to privacy. TiVo
keeps track of your preferences, like those thumbs-up and thumbs-down
notations, and sells them to advertisers. Although they promise they won't tie
any information to you personally unless you agree, Steve thinks it's downright
creepy. He calls it "The Profiler." Susie can't imagine anyone volunteering to
give up all that information. Replay pledges it won't do any such tracking or
profiling, and since it's not in cahoots with advertisers, it gives you that
great commercial-skip button. TiVo doesn't."

So, here are a couple of questions:  is the setting of personal program
preferences done on the local machine and then downloaded to the TiVO site, or
must you be online to select?  Suppose the personal preferences are set on the
local machine.  What would be the legal/technical issues involved in obtaining
the source code from TiVO and modifying it so that TiVO thinks all you ever
watch is the Weather Channel?  I'm sure this is just an academic question since
the people who read this newsgroup probably don't have any problems setting
their current VCRs, but it's nice to think about.


Erik Brown
www.oomecs.org - a free (as in freedom) computer hardware/software architecture

From: TiVo Webmaster <webmas...@tivo.com>
Subject: Re: Source code for TiVO
Date: 1999/08/18
Message-ID: <7per7n$933$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1
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Actually, the show the Digital Duo did on TiVo ranged from
irresponsible to slanderous.  The two "journalists" never asked about
or read TiVo's Privacy Policy.  You can do that for yourself here:

http://www.tivo.com/care/privacy.html.

Pledges and promises are fine -- show me in writing!

TiVo has the only Privacy Policy in the PTV industry.  We are quite
proud of it, because we value your privacy as much as you do.

If you have any questions about how we technically and ethically
protect your privacy, please feel free to ask me.

Regards,
Richard Bullwinkle
TiVo Webmaster

In article <19990818105531.00347.00000...@ng-co1.aol.com>,
  eriklbr...@aol.comnospam (ErikLBrown) wrote:
> Making sure the makers of TiVO honor the GPL if they have used any
GNU software
> is a good thing. However, there is another issue that people should be
> concerned about: privacy.
>
> There is a show called "Digital Duo" that reviews computer
technology.  The two
> hosts are Stephen Manes, who writes for both Forbes Magazine and PC
World, and
> Susan Gregory Thomas, who writes for both U.S. News & World Report
and New
> Woman.  The TiVO name sounded familiar, so I did some searching
through their
> show description archives.  I found the show I was looking for at the
following
> URL:
>
> http://www.digitalduo.com/205_dig.html
>
> Here is the next to last paragraph relating to TiVO and its
competitor, Replay
> TV:
>
> "But the biggest difference between TiVo and Replay relates to
privacy. TiVo
> keeps track of your preferences, like those thumbs-up and thumbs-down
> notations, and sells them to advertisers. Although they promise they
won't tie
> any information to you personally unless you agree, Steve thinks it's
downright
> creepy. He calls it "The Profiler." Susie can't imagine anyone
volunteering to
> give up all that information. Replay pledges it won't do any such
tracking or
> profiling, and since it's not in cahoots with advertisers, it gives
you that
> great commercial-skip button. TiVo doesn't."
>
> So, here are a couple of questions:  is the setting of personal
program
> preferences done on the local machine and then downloaded to the TiVO
site, or
> must you be online to select?  Suppose the personal preferences are
set on the
> local machine.  What would be the legal/technical issues involved in
obtaining
> the source code from TiVO and modifying it so that TiVO thinks all
you ever
> watch is the Weather Channel?  I'm sure this is just an academic
question since
> the people who read this newsgroup probably don't have any problems
setting
> their current VCRs, but it's nice to think about.
>
> Erik Brown
> www.oomecs.org - a free (as in freedom) computer hardware/software
architecture
>


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