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From: james mishler <grea...@chop.isca.uiowa.edu>
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Copyrighting
Date: 7 Apr 1994 04:48:14 GMT
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If you all think that copyrighting the 8-point star of chaos is bad, check out 
what FASA has gone and done: they copyrighted Tir na nog, the ancient celtic 
Land of Youth. Of course, once T$R copyrighted "Nazi", it was only a matter of 
time before religious names nad titles were litiginous fodder.
---
************************************************************
*** That which does not kill you,                        ***
***          makes you think twice about trying it again ***
************************************************************

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From: bhei...@aol.com (B Heidrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Copyrighting
Date: 7 Apr 1994 10:49:02 -0400
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   93
   Just a technical interjection into this Copyright issue:
    There is an important difference between Copyright and
Trademark.  Copyright can apply to many things: writings
black and white art, recordings -- published or not.
Trademark only applies to names, abbreviations and logo's.
Copyright matter must be original, not old content.  New
formatting of old text can be covered by copyright, but
not the old text free from formatting line breaks and fonts.
Trademark need not be on new material, just unique
identification symbol use.  Trademark requires prior use
of the symbol, name or abbreviation to identify a service,
business or organization.  The same symbol, etc., can often
be trademarked by different businesses.  E.g.  "O.T.O." is
Trademarked by Ordo Templi Orientis (also trademarked)
as the formal and limited abbreviation of our name as a
religious entity and order, plus provider of certain things
and services.  We don't run a car repair service, so there is
some guy in the midwest who also has "O.T.O." as a trademark
for his car repair service --- no conflict, legal or otherwise.
Copyrights are managed by the Library of Congress.
Trademarks are managed by the Patent office.
Tradesecrets are another matter entirely, not copyright or
trademark but legally protected.
---- These are layman's remarks, not legal advice, but
refer to what I have seen in and out of Federal court.  Some
of this might be a little dated, but should be accurate.
93 93/93
    Bill Heidrick.

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: Mike...@magee.demon.co.uk (mikemagee)
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MikeMagee
Subject: Re: Copyrighting
References: <765694268-1-10720@chop.isca.uiowa.edu> 
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In article <2o16gu$i...@search01.news.aol.com>
           bhei...@aol.com "B Heidrick" writes:

> 
>    93
>    Just a technical interjection into this Copyright issue:
>     There is an important difference between Copyright and
> Trademark.  Copyright can apply to many things: writings
> black and white art, recordings -- published or not.
> Trademark only applies to names, abbreviations and logo's.
> Copyright matter must be original, not old content.  New
> formatting of old text can be covered by copyright, but


> ---- These are layman's remarks, not legal advice, but
> refer to what I have seen in and out of Federal court.  Some
> of this might be a little dated, but should be accurate.
> 93 93/93
>     Bill Heidrick.
 
However US copyright law differs from copyright law in many
other countries throughout the world. For example, in the UK, the
fact you have published (by any medium) something means it is
your copyright unless otherwise assigned. That's not true in
the States, is it?

My understanding is that you have to register a work with the
Library of Congress and pay a fee for so doing. Is that true,
does anyone know?

Some of my work has been published in the US. Do I retain copyright
on it or not?

Mike

 

-- 


mike...@magee.demon.co.uk

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From: bhei...@aol.com (B Heidrick)
Newsgroups: alt.magick
Subject: Re: Copyrighting
Date: 9 Apr 1994 17:13:02 -0400
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Mike Magee asked some additional questions about copyright in USA & UK.

  For what follows, please bear in mind that I am not a Lawyer; and
this is layman's opinion, not legal advice.   That which is written
below is not safe to rely upon without expert legal advice.

  International copyright has changed quite a bit, but some national
copyright internally continues under local rules --- this situation
arises from wider acceptance of the Bern copyright convention treaty
and the prolonged legal shake-up that will take years to resolve in
the wake of that treaty.
   US copyright is somewhat odd.  If an author who is also a US
national publishes a work for the first time abroad, with printing
done abroad, that author may forever lose US copyright.  This was
the rule, and may still be the rule.  Copyright by such an author
outside the US would probably be not lost.  Registration of a
work published for the first time in the USA is usually accomplished
by filing a form with small fee at the Library of Congress --- this
can be done through the mails without legal advice.  Such a work
has been required to carry a copyright notice in the past; and
to secure international copyright protection, a small "C in a circle"
should be part of that notice.  The Bern convention may have
an impact on this.  In the USA, any unpublished work is common law
copyright and owned by the legal author --- either the author in
fact or a company or person who hired the author to do the work.
   In western Europe, there are various copyright and trademark
recognition treaties which are not always impacted by the Bern
convention.  For example, in Germany a translation may be copyright
to the original language copyright holder, no matter who did the
translation --- this is not usually the case in the USA.  In England
copyrights last longer if sold than if inherited through a last will
and testament.  In eastern Europe and Asia, copyright and trademark
are very "iffy" --- many countries do not recognize these properties.
A trademark in France may be automatically recognized in Italy, and
vice versa --- but a British trademark may not be recognized in those
two countries.  Also in Germany, one German version only of a
translation by be legal, not other versions --- if a bad translation
is published in Germany and copyrighted, you may not legally be able
to publish a better translation.
   Old rules for Public Domain, a condition where a work is no longer
under copyright but may be printed by anyone, are now very confused.
At one time in the USA and certain other countries, 50 years from
the death of the author or 100 years from the first publication of
the work would mean the work going public domain.  Now that is no
longer the case internationally.  In many countries, any work
published (not just written or sold by private subscription) before
1912 is now public domain.  Some works which were public domain
outside the USA are now copyright protected again --- this never
happened under the old USA copyright laws.  The complexity
of the situation may be illustrated:  _Magick in Theory and Practice_,
actually part 3 of Crowley's _Book 4_, appears to be public domain
in the USA.  It is copyright protected in some western European
countries and some pacific rim countries.  Under the old USA
copyright law, MTP would have become public domain in any event
in 1997, but new laws and treaties now appear to protect the work
until well into the 21st century.  British law would have rendered
MTP public domain, had Crowley not died a bankrupt; but since he
did die with an unresolved bankruptcy, MTP in British law now appears
to be protected property of O.T.O. well into the 21st century.
The actual status of MTP copyright is still subject to legal
decision in half a dozen countries.  It is possible but not likely
that MTP may be restored to full copyright protection in the USA
either through subsequent legal decision or through new laws or
treaties.  Further, even though a work is public domain, footnotes,
editorial work (including page formatting and ASCII computer versions),
indexes and the like are subject to new copyright protection.
Thus, no matter what the public domain or copyright status of MTP,
for example, my typed ASCII versions of MTP are copyright O.T.O.
in that format.  The planned new edition through Samuel Weiser, Inc.
will contain previously unpublished material by Crowley and
extensive new footnotes --- hence it will be under copyright even
though the earlier Castle edition is not apparently under copyright
in the USA.
   It's a rat's nest!
   For new works, follow the forms provided by the government where
you live and where the work is published --- separately!
   For anything more complex, talk to a publisher who does this
for a living --- better still get a few hundred $'s, DM's or Pounds
together and take your questions to a lawyer or other legal
professional, IN THE COPYRIGHT FIELD --- not just any legal
professional!
   When you do publish, use: Copyright (c) <date> <your name>.
(c) = C in a circle, not c in paren.  Put that notice either
on or behind the title page.  That's your foot in the door.
If in the USA, consider photocopying a dozen and leaving them in
a bookstore with a sign saying "take one" --- keep a receipt from
the proprietor and don't lose it.  Then write to the Library
of Congress Copyright office for the forms.  --- this is in
case you are worried and don't have a professional publisher.
Remember also that copyrights have to be renewed in the USA
before the period of first copyright runs out --- 28 years,
I think, but cannot be sure without checking.

This is not as good as buying an author's handbook and writing
to a support group or agency.  There must be somewhere on the
Net with a Newsgroup for authors.  This discussion is getting
to the point where you need more up-to-date opinion than I
can offer.  Maybe try: rec.arts.books    soc.libraries.talk
alt-comp-acad-freedom.talk  alt.journalism  bit.listserv.ada-law
bit.listserv.lawsch-1
    If it gets too irritating,  take it to alt.flame

93  93/93
    Bill Heidrick

Newsgroups: alt.magick
From: Mike...@magee.demon.co.uk (mikemagee)
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Subject: Re: Copyrighting
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In article < 2o75ou$p...@search01.news.aol.com>
           bhei...@aol.com "B Heidrick" writes:


[Thanks for that info...deleted for space reasons]

>    It's a rat's nest!


The problem is that it costs a huge amount of money (here in the
UK at least) to consult a copyright lawyer.

I submitted a book in good faith to an Indian publisher some years
ago, never heard from them, then a friend in Sweden sent me a copy
of the book (they'd published it without telling me!).

In the case of magical work, the AMOOKOS grade papers, for example,
were written by me, published in this country by Mandrake Press
in Oxford (there are two Mandrakes in Oxford, btw) and the rights
to that book assigned to an Indian publisher.

Yet the copyright on the original works wasn't assigned. I've a
feeling that all this is an obstacle to dissemination of information. The
solution might be to post material with a copyright message and
following the shareware rule, include a message saying people have
a right to read and spread it but if they use it or enjoy it, to
post some nominal sum to the author. That's worked quite well for
me with my astrology programs and bypasses huge legal costs and
other sillinesses.

That, at least, is what I will do with all of my published works.
Just needs a sympathetic server somewhere to store the stuff.

Mike


-- 


mike...@magee.demon.co.uk

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