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From: db...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu (Donald Burr)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent,comp.os.linux,alt.os.linux
Subject: Wanted: Info on COHERENT, LINUX, and possible FORSALE
Message-ID: <dburr.710741328@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu>
Date: 10 Jul 92 04:08:48 GMT
Sender: r...@ucsbcsl.ucsb.edu
Followup-To: comp.os.coherent
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I have a friend with a 386 (I really have no idea what kind, but I'm
fairly sure it's a 386, not 386SX, 386DX, etc.)  It has a 40mb hard
disk, 2MB RAM, AMI (American Megatrends) BIOS, and no math
processor/387/etc.

My friend would like to get into UNIX.  Specifically, getting familiar
with the OS (the commands like ls, cd, etc.; shell programming, and C
programming)  To that end, we are looking for a _fairly_ "standard"
(i.e. SysV-like or BSD-like) UNIX, with C compiler (other languages, if
possible)

Another friend suggested COHERENT.  From my understanding, it is a
"hobbyists' UNIX" type system, sort of in the same class as MINIX.  From
my experience with a MINIX system, this would be an ideal setup.

I have also heard of a freeware/shareare (i.e. publicly accesable)
UNIX for PC's called LINUX.  I am not familiar with it, and haven't
worked with it.

Can someone who has worked a lot with Coherent on 386's please get in
touch with me (My friend has no net access, and I will be acting as
liaison)  How ha the system worked for you?   What are the quirks?  The
good points?  The bad points?

I would like the same information for LINUX as well, please.
Also, where can LINUX be ftp'd from, or otherwise transferred from?
(I have a machine with V.32/V.42/V.42bis modem, so if REALLY necessary,
I can get it via anonymous UUCP)

Also, if you have a package for sale, PLEASE send mail to me.  I
understand that there are at least two different versions of Coherent,
one of them is written for 386's specifically, and does not impose a 64k
process limit like other versions do.

Many thanks in advance! and please reply to
db...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu.

--
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Path: sparky!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!chaos.cs.umn.edu!bill
From: b...@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on COHERENT, LINUX, and possible FORSALE
Message-ID: <bill.710809242@chaos.cs.umn.edu>
Date: 10 Jul 92 23:00:42 GMT
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In <dburr.710741...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu> db...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu 
(Donald Burr) writes:

>I have a friend with a 386 (I really have no idea what kind, but I'm
>fairly sure it's a 386, not 386SX, 386DX, etc.)  It has a 40mb hard
                    ^^^ its the same^^^^^

>disk, 2MB RAM, AMI (American Megatrends) BIOS, and no math
>processor/387/etc.

>My friend would like to get into UNIX.  Specifically, getting familiar
>with the OS (the commands like ls, cd, etc.; shell programming, and C
>programming)  To that end, we are looking for a _fairly_ "standard"
>(i.e. SysV-like or BSD-like) UNIX, with C compiler (other languages, if
>possible)
if your object is to get knowledge of unix. then i'd avoid also playing
with other languages than the shell for now.

>Another friend suggested COHERENT.  From my understanding, it is a
>"hobbyists' UNIX" type system, sort of in the same class as MINIX.  From
ummmm 'bzt' excuse me but.. uh no its not. it is a comercial product, real
unix, with support, updates/upgrades, commercial product support, etc.

>my experience with a MINIX system, this would be an ideal setup.
not even close. this is much.much.much closer to 'real' unix than minix
is/was (cause it is real unix)

>I have also heard of a freeware/shareare (i.e. publicly accesable)
>UNIX for PC's called LINUX.  I am not familiar with it, and haven't
>worked with it.
can we say kernel hacker? imho if you are just learning unix. then you 
should avoid linux. right now it is in the process of being built.

>Can someone who has worked a lot with Coherent on 386's please get in
untill this next release comes out, rsn? 386-286 has been the same.

>touch with me (My friend has no net access, and I will be acting as
>liaison)  How ha the system worked for you?   What are the quirks?  The
accually i can't stand the stuff, it doesn't want to crash nearly as often
as aix 3.1.6 you know i'm really getting upset that mwc can't produce a unix
every bit as bad as some of the "comercial" products out there.

>good points?  The bad points?
no good points. bad points well... it's to inexpensive, it runs on every 
piece of hardware i've ever put it on. i can leave the system up for months
and it remains stable. it will even let me turn off the power and it has the
adacity to come up clean even when it wasn't shutdown properly.

>I would like the same information for LINUX as well, please.
>Also, where can LINUX be ftp'd from, or otherwise transferred from?
>(I have a machine with V.32/V.42/V.42bis modem, so if REALLY necessary,
>I can get it via anonymous UUCP)
sorry i can only respond as i've used or read from the developers on this one

>Also, if you have a package for sale, PLEASE send mail to me.  I
>understand that there are at least two different versions of Coherent,
>one of them is written for 386's specifically, and does not impose a 64k
this would be the nre release we'll be forced to buy for such a paltry
sum of money.

>process limit like other versions do.

bill pociengel
--
b...@chaos.cs.umn.edu

Path: sparky!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!klaava!torvalds
From: torva...@klaava.Helsinki.FI (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
Newsgroups: comp.os.coherent
Subject: Re: Wanted: Info on COHERENT, LINUX, and possible FORSALE
Message-ID: <1992Jul12.194259.8404@klaava.Helsinki.FI>
Date: 12 Jul 92 19:42:59 GMT
References: <dburr.710741328@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu> <bill.710809242@chaos.cs.umn.edu>
Organization: University of Helsinki
Lines: 75

[ Missed the original article, so I'm replying to the reply.. ]

In article <bill.710809...@chaos.cs.umn.edu> b...@chaos.cs.umn.edu (Hari Seldon) 
writes:
>In <dburr.710741...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu> db...@sbphy.physics.ucsb.edu 
(Donald Burr) writes:
>
>>I have a friend with a 386 (I really have no idea what kind, but I'm
>>fairly sure it's a 386, not 386SX, 386DX, etc.)  It has a 40mb hard
>                    ^^^ its the same^^^^^

Well, under a 32-bit unix, it does pay to have a DX instead of an SX. 
But yes, the same programs will run quite happily (only a bit slower) on
a 386SX machine.  I doubt there is that much difference when running Coh
versions 3.2 and lower (obviously not counting the fact that SX machines
usually have lower clockrates as well). 

>>Another friend suggested COHERENT.  From my understanding, it is a
>>"hobbyists' UNIX" type system, sort of in the same class as MINIX.  From
>ummmm 'bzt' excuse me but.. uh no its not. it is a comercial product, real
>unix, with support, updates/upgrades, commercial product support, etc.

Well, minix is commercial as well, although I agree to the general idea:
minix, while commercial, is more into the educational area and has the
"feel" of freeware when it comes to support etc. 

>>my experience with a MINIX system, this would be an ideal setup.
>not even close. this is much.much.much closer to 'real' unix than minix
>is/was (cause it is real unix)
>
>>I have also heard of a freeware/shareare (i.e. publicly accesable)
>>UNIX for PC's called LINUX.  I am not familiar with it, and haven't
>>worked with it.
>can we say kernel hacker? imho if you are just learning unix. then you 
>should avoid linux. right now it is in the process of being built.

Well, but linux is much.much.much closer to 'real' unix than coherent
(to borrow your words). (*)

But I agree: if the primary cause for getting a unix is to learn about
using the operating system, coherent is a good idea.  I'd say linux is
actually more /useable/ but the learning curve is much steeper.  (Not to
mention the fact that Coh4.0 doesn't seem to be out yet).  But DOS-only
people have successfully gotten X11r5 etc to work under linux, which
isn't currently even possibly under Codherent even if it was available. 

But linux does take some work, and while that itself will teach you
something, not everybody wants to go through the setups that Coherent
makes easier (and people that don't enjoy setting up systems can well
feel the $99 for Coherent is worth it just because of that).  If
"learning unix" actually means learning /how/ unix works, linux does
have the advantage of source code: it's not just a black box that
happens to work. 

>>I would like the same information for LINUX as well, please.
>>Also, where can LINUX be ftp'd from, or otherwise transferred from?
>>(I have a machine with V.32/V.42/V.42bis modem, so if REALLY necessary,
>>I can get it via anonymous UUCP)

The three major linux sites are: tsx-11.mit.edu, banjo.concert.net and
nic.funet.fi.  They contain all the important stuff (ranging from the
kernel source and binaries to root-disks, utilities, gcc to X11).  There
are a lot more sites, but I frankly don't remember them, as the above
three are what I use.  Also, you might want to crosspost to (or just
read) the comp.os.minix, comp.os.linux and comp.os.bsd groups to get
additional info on those systems.

		Linus

(*) I know the above is really asking to be flamed, but (a) coh4.0 may
run some sysv386 binaries, but doesn't have VM, X11 etc (b) linux
supports gcc-2.2.2 as standard (ANSI-C as well as C++ even on a 2M
machine) with shared libraries, good posix compliance etc.  (c) Linux
has things line long names (up to 255 chars) and a DOS-filesystem as
well as TCP/IP support actually as patches already: not just general
promises that we'll actually get there eventually.  And upgrades are
free.

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