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From: hai...@ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Bruno Haible)
Subject: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/04/21
Message-ID: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 101390929
organization: IZFM, Uni Stuttgart
keywords: Linux, gnu
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
originator: bhaible@sunserv

Why does the GNU bulletin (January 1995) avoid the term "Linux" and use
the words "GNU/Linux"?

The bulletin says Linux is "a variant GNU system which uses Linux as the
kernel". What does this mean?

Linux is named after its main author, Linus Torvalds. There aren't
different "brands" of it: There is no "Slackware Linux" or "Yggdrasil
Linux". There is only one Linux. (Well, there is Linux for m68k but they
share most of the source.)

The term "GNU/Linux" sounds as if the GNU project wants to state that
Linux has been developed (or bought) by the FSF.


                    Bruno Haible
                    hai...@ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de

From: torva...@cc.Helsinki.FI (Linus Torvalds)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/04/24
Message-ID: <3nfgjr$n6j@klaava.helsinki.fi>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 101243747
sender: torva...@cc.helsinki.fi
references: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
organization: University of Helsinki
keywords: Linux, gnu
mime-version: 1.0
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

In article <3n9bki$...@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>,
Bruno Haible < hai...@ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de> wrote:
>Why does the GNU bulletin (January 1995) avoid the term "Linux" and use
>the words "GNU/Linux"?
>
>The bulletin says Linux is "a variant GNU system which uses Linux as the
>kernel". What does this mean?
>
>Linux is named after its main author, Linus Torvalds. There aren't
>different "brands" of it: There is no "Slackware Linux" or "Yggdrasil
>Linux". There is only one Linux. (Well, there is Linux for m68k but they
>share most of the source.)
>
>The term "GNU/Linux" sounds as if the GNU project wants to state that
>Linux has been developed (or bought) by the FSF.

Just to set the record straight, rms actually asked about if first, and
I saw no reason not to call it GNU/Linux in the GNU bulletins etc.  As
he pointed out, a lot of the utilities are GNU programs (perhaps not
most, but still a very noticeable part). 

One of the early linux distributors (yggdrasil) called the systm "LGX"
for Linux/GNU/X11, but they seem to have gone over to plain "Yggdrasil
Linux" for name recognition (whee, I didn't think that "Linux" would be
a name recognition factor when I started). 

The reason linux is GPL'd (that wasn't the original copyright, after
all), is mainly gcc - I could have made do without the other GNU tools,
but gcc was (and still is) my favourite GNU program, and one that made
linux possible in the first place.  I'll forgive even GNU emacs as long
as gcc is available ;-)

		Linus

From: mig...@athena.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Miguel de Icaza)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/04/24
Message-ID: < MIGUEL.95Apr24132137@athena.gnu.ai.mit.edu>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 101514869
references: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
organization: Universidad Nacional Autonoma de Mexico
reply-to: mig...@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss


> The term "GNU/Linux" sounds as if the GNU project wants to state that
> Linux has been developed (or bought) by the FSF.

[other already commented about the FSF tools included with GNU]

rms is concerned because some people that use Linux have never heard
about the GNU project, so he wants to state that Linux actually is a
system that uses a whole set of utilities from GNU.  

Linux has reached too much people that do not know anything about how
Linux and GNU were created, and which are the goals behind the gpl,
the GNU/Linux name is just a way of making it clear, I don't mind
using it.

--
mig...@roxanne.nuclecu.unam.mx     
The Midnight Commander: http://stekt.oulu.fi/~jtklehto/mc/

From: m...@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/04/29
Message-ID: < MIB.95Apr28212810@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 101790342
references: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

In article <3n9bki$...@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> 
hai...@ma2s2.mathematik.uni-karlsruhe.de (Bruno Haible) writes:

   Why does the GNU bulletin (January 1995) avoid the term "Linux" and use
   the words "GNU/Linux"?

   The bulletin says Linux is "a variant GNU system which uses Linux as the
   kernel". What does this mean?

   Linux is named after its main author, Linus Torvalds. There aren't
   different "brands" of it: There is no "Slackware Linux" or "Yggdrasil
   Linux". There is only one Linux. (Well, there is Linux for m68k but they
   share most of the source.)

   The term "GNU/Linux" sounds as if the GNU project wants to state that
   Linux has been developed (or bought) by the FSF.

The term GNU/Linux refers to complete systems, of which Linux forms
the kernel, and the majority utilities are GNU.

For example, the Slackware distribution is a GNU/Linux system.  The
Yggdrasil distribution is a GNU/Linux system.  The forthcoming Debian
distribution is a GNU/Linux system.

There is no attempt to pretend that the Linux kernel was written by
the FSF.  Unfortunately, calling complete systems Linux systems does
amount to pretending (without malicious intent, of course) that Linus
wrote emacs, gcc, ls, tar, etc.

Michael

From: ho...@sci.kun.nl (Mark van Hoeij)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/05/01
Message-ID: < D7ws3M.L4w@sci.kun.nl>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 101790334
sender: n...@sci.kun.nl (News owner)
references: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> 
< MIB.95Apr28212810@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu>
organization: University of Nijmegen, The Netherlands
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

In < MIB.95Apr28212...@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> m...@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu 
(Michael I Bushnell) writes:

>   Why does the GNU bulletin (January 1995) avoid the term "Linux" and use
>   the words "GNU/Linux"?

>   The bulletin says Linux is "a variant GNU system which uses Linux as the
>   kernel". What does this mean?

>   Linux is named after its main author, Linus Torvalds. There aren't
>   different "brands" of it: There is no "Slackware Linux" or "Yggdrasil
>   Linux". There is only one Linux. (Well, there is Linux for m68k but they
>   share most of the source.)

>   The term "GNU/Linux" sounds as if the GNU project wants to state that
>   Linux has been developed (or bought) by the FSF.

>The term GNU/Linux refers to complete systems, of which Linux forms
>the kernel, and the majority utilities are GNU.

>For example, the Slackware distribution is a GNU/Linux system.  The
>Yggdrasil distribution is a GNU/Linux system.  The forthcoming Debian
>distribution is a GNU/Linux system.

>There is no attempt to pretend that the Linux kernel was written by
>the FSF.  Unfortunately, calling complete systems Linux systems does
>amount to pretending (without malicious intent, of course) that Linus
>wrote emacs, gcc, ls, tar, etc.

On my DOS partition there is much more GPL software than Microsoft software.
But still when I've booted DOS this is called a DOS machine, not a GNU/DOS
machine.

With the same reasoning, the computer is called a Linux machine when
Linux is booted, not GNU/Linux, even when the GNU part is larger
than the Linux part.

Mark van Hoeij

From: jb...@synopsys.com (Joe Buck)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/05/05
Message-ID: <3ochbt$lju@hermes.synopsys.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 102152173
references: <3n9bki$ff0@info4.rus.uni-stuttgart.de> 
< MIB.95Apr28212810@geech.gnu.ai.mit.edu> < D7ws3M.L4w@sci.kun.nl>
organization: Synopsys Inc., Mountain View, CA 94043-4033
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

ho...@sci.kun.nl (Mark van Hoeij) writes:
>>The term GNU/Linux refers to complete systems, of which Linux forms
>>the kernel, and the majority utilities are GNU.
>...

>On my DOS partition there is much more GPL software than Microsoft software.
>But still when I've booted DOS this is called a DOS machine, not a GNU/DOS
>machine.

The distinction is that Linux would be utterly impossible without GNU.
*Every single* application on your Linux system has GNU code in it;
specifically, in the C library (at least after the dynamic linking is
complete).  You can't even print "Hello, world" on Linux without executing
GNU code.

And Linus couldn't have created the thing in the first place without the
cross-compilation capability of gcc.

DOS, on the other hand, doesn't need any GNU code to run.

I still say that my machine runs Linux, not "GNU/Linux".  But the term
does seem to serve an educational purpose, as much of the Linux community
doesn't get it about how much the whole project depends on GNU software.


-- 
-- Joe Buck 	< jb...@synopsys.com>	(not speaking for Synopsys, Inc)
Phone: +1 415 694 1729

From: iia...@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Why do you call Linux "GNU/Linux"?
Date: 1995/05/19
Message-ID: < D8u21G.LDK@info.swan.ac.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 102981938
sender: n...@info.swan.ac.uk
x-nntp-posting-host: iifeak.swan.ac.uk
references: <3ochbt$lju@hermes.synopsys.com> 
< CHRISB.95May9190939@stork.cssc-syd.tansu.com.au> <3p7b8c$mf9@smurf.noris.de>
organization: Institute For Industrial Information Technology
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss

In article <3p7b8c$...@smurf.noris.de> urli...@smurf.noris.de (Matthias Urlichs) writes:
>In gnu.misc.discuss, article < CHRISB.95May9190...@stork.cssc-syd.tansu.com.au>,
>> >The distinction is that Linux would be utterly impossible without GNU.
>> >*Every single* application on your Linux system has GNU code in it;
>> >specifically, in the C library (at least after the dynamic linking is
>> >complete).  You can't even print "Hello, world" on Linux without executing
>> >GNU code.
>> 
>> write(1, "Hello, world\n", 13);
>> 
>Guess who translates the write() to a system call? That's in the C library
>too; the call isn't inlined.
>
>I call Linux Linux, when I mean the kernel only. When I'm talking about the
>system as a whole, it's "GNU/Linux".

By size count it should then be TeX/XConsortium/GNU/BSD/Linux 8)

The notion that Linux needed GNU is wrong also. You can easily build a
complete system from non GNU free tools. awcc or lcc, BSD stdio and strings
etc. Many GNU tools are used for Linux not because they are the only free tools,
but because they are the best tools as well. That reflects even better on
the FSF and free community. They also did much of the kicking of dead whales
down beaches to create the GPL and some of the free software beliefs.

Alan

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