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From: tr...@freeside.ultraviolet.org (Tracy R Reed)
Subject: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/25
Message-ID: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 292669406
Organization: Ultraviolet
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy



I admin a bunch of SCO machines here at work and I can't say that I've    
ever been a big fan of it. I prefer Linux. But this has gone too far. I   
refer you to: http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46
  
That document is astounding. How could SCO so badly misrepresent Linux?!?!
They fear it. That's what it looks like to me anyhow. I just got off the  
phone with SCO at 1-800-726-8652 where I talked to Andy in dept 365041. I
politely informed him of how incorrect this document was, how
objectionable it is, and how bad it makes SCO look to misrepresent an
operating system such as Linux. I encourage all of you to do the same.


--
Tracy Reed      http://www.ultraviolet.org
In 1984 mainstream users were choosing VMS over UNIX.  Ten years later
they are choosing Windows over UNIX.  What part of that message aren't you
getting? - Tom Payne

From: Brian Kimball <o...@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/25
Message-ID: <347B84B6.15D56DEF@pobox.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 292713205
References: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org>
Organization: Pacific Bell Internet Services
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


Tracy R Reed wrote:
> 
> I admin a bunch of SCO machines here at work and I can't say that I've
> ever been a big fan of it. I prefer Linux. But this has gone too far. I
> refer you to: http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46
> 
> That document is astounding. How could SCO so badly misrepresent Linux?!?!
> They fear it. That's what it looks like to me anyhow.

Uh huh.  Don't get your pee hot, though.  I don't think anyone is taking
this seriously.  They make a bunch of vague statements about Linux, and
then offer their system (limited to 5 users) for the low low price of
$1,495.  What a deal.

SCO is desparate.  Linux is most likely eating away at the only market
they're involved in.  I predict that in 5 years they're going to be a
Linux distributor.  Watch out, RedHat!

	-brian

From: Bernd Paysan <pay...@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/26
Message-ID: <347BF664.306A@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 292821636
References: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org> 
<347B84B6.15D56DEF@pobox.com>
Organization: Siemens AG, Semiconductor Group
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


Brian Kimball wrote:
> SCO is desparate.  Linux is most likely eating away at the only market
> they're involved in.  I predict that in 5 years they're going to be a
> Linux distributor.  Watch out, RedHat!

And watch out SCO users. SCO won't have support/maintainance then, won't
have a future strategy, won't have new apps (who cares aboult thousands
of old, unmaintained apps), won't fix security holes, won't patch
Pentium bugs... and it doesn't have independent maintainers such as
Linux.

SCO got out of the Microsoft Xenix-deal in Europe (and thus no longer
supports Xenix), they want to do the same in US. This allows M$ to
compete with them in the Unix area (perhaps by distributing el cheapo
pre-installed Linux in masses ;-), and then they'll go down very soon. 5
years is an optimistic assumption; half of their market share is
swallowed by NT, anyway, and the other half moves to Linux.

-- 
Bernd Paysan
"Late answers are wrong answers!"
http://www.informatik.tu-muenchen.de/~paysan/

From: dani...@mindspring.com (Alan Daniels)
Subject: Re: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/26
Message-ID: <slrn67p8bs.8ap.daniels@anarchist.alan_daniels.org>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 292980097
References: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org> 
<347B84B6.15D56DEF@pobox.com> <347BF664.306A@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de>
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Reply-To: dani...@mindspring.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


On Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:13:56 +0100, Bernd Paysan
<pay...@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de> wrote:

[snip...]

>SCO got out of the Microsoft Xenix-deal in Europe (and thus no longer
>supports Xenix), they want to do the same in US. This allows M$ to
>compete with them in the Unix area (perhaps by distributing el cheapo
>pre-installed Linux in masses ;-), and then they'll go down very soon. 5
>years is an optimistic assumption; half of their market share is
>swallowed by NT, anyway, and the other half moves to Linux.

Actually, it appears to me that SCO has an opportunity here -- either
by drowned by a Tsunami, or surf it. It should seem pretty obvious
that selling an Intel-based UNIX is going to be a *VERY* hard sell
when your product costs $1000+, and something equivalent is being
given away for free. Especially when that free equivalent has an
exponentially growing user base, a good reputation for stability,
and lots of very vocal fans. Even if SCO was substantially better,
it would be doomed by the same logic that got Windows 3.0 to outsell
the Mac back in 1990: "Good enough". Of course, I've never used SCO,
so I can't comment on its quality either way. As a quick view through
the NEWS.COM archives will show, though, SCO is going through tough
times, and their graceless attack on Linux comes across as looking
pretty pathetic.

And desperate.

It seems that the chief complaint against Linux in corporations is
"No support", so SCO could make decent money by making a migration
to being a Linux support organization. Not making their own distri-
bution, but being the company you can call, day or night, when you
have Linux trouble. There *will* be a market for this sort of
company when Linux breaks the last few pieces of the "corporate
acceptance barrier" (which I predict will happen over the 1998 year).
SCO can either make a transition to being a new kind of company, or
hang on to a dying business model.

-- 
======================================================================
Alan Daniels                                    dani...@mindspring.com
                                                dani...@cc.gatech.edu

From: t...@halcyon.com (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/27
Message-ID: <65kfvm$4vr$1@halcyon.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 293213215
References: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org> 
<347B84B6.15D56DEF@pobox.com> <347BF664.306A@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de> 
<slrn67p8bs.8ap.daniels@anarchist.alan_daniels.org>
Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc.
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


Alan Daniels <dani...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Actually, it appears to me that SCO has an opportunity here -- either
>by drowned by a Tsunami, or surf it. It should seem pretty obvious
>that selling an Intel-based UNIX is going to be a *VERY* hard sell
>when your product costs $1000+, and something equivalent is being
>given away for free. Especially when that free equivalent has an

But it's not "something equivalent".  Linux has a lot of security problems.
Eventually, they will mostly be found and fixed, and then SCO will be in
real trouble, but until then, there are probably enough customers that want
reasonable security on an Intel box, and find $1k a cheap price for such
security.

--Tim Smith

From: Ingo Molnar <mi...@pc7537.hil.siemens.at>
Subject: Re: SCO is bashing Linux!!!
Date: 1997/11/27
Message-ID: <65khh6$s6m@zwei.siemens.at>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 293220711
References: <slrn67mkd2.it7.treed@freeside.ultraviolet.org> 
<347B84B6.15D56DEF@pobox.com> <347BF664.306A@nospam.informatik.killspam.tu-muenchen.de> 
<slrn67p8bs.8ap.daniels@anarchist.alan_daniels.org> <65kfvm$4vr$1@halcyon.com>
Organization: Siemens AG Austria
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


Tim Smith <t...@halcyon.com> wrote:

:                                               [...] then SCO will be in
: real trouble, but until then, there are probably enough customers that want
: reasonable security on an Intel box, and find $1k a cheap price for such
: security.

*ROTFL*

wondering, when was the F00F bug fixed in SCO? and the LAND attack? 

ah, and this SCO root exploit security hole, just from yesterday's Bugtraq:

---------->
Topic:  Vulnerability in /usr/bin/X11/scoterm

II.  Impact

     Any user with an account on the system may be able to execute arbitrary
     commands with root privileges.

     This problem exists on the following releases of SCO operating systems:

     - SCO Open Desktop/Open Server 3.0
     - SCO OpenServer 5.0
<----------

and just an excerpt from land.c's vulnerability list:

----------->
SCO OpenServer 5.0.2 SMP                IS  vulnerable
SCO OpenServer 5.0.4                    IS  vulnerable (kills networking)
SCO Unixware 2.1.1                      IS  vulnerable
SCO Unixware 2.1.2                      IS  vulnerable

Linux 1.2.13                            NOT vulnerable
Linux 2.1.65                            NOT vulnerable
Linux 2.0.30                            NOT vulnerable
Linux 2.0.32                            NOT vulnerable
<-----------

SCO, get a life.

-- mingo

From: "Steven R. Robertson" <srob...@anv.net>
Subject: SCO's letter to Linux Users HAHAHA
Date: 1997/12/02
Message-ID: <3483CCB2.33553880@anv.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 294450643
Organization: All USENET -- http://www.Supernews.com
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


I am ROTFLMAO after reading the letter from SCO. I just saw this today. 
Red Hat thought we would enjoy it and published it at 
http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46
 Let's see if I got this straight. 
      1. There is no tech support for Linux.
      2. It is maintained by amateurs only. 
      3. We should all pluck down $1400 and replace
         our free Linux systems with 
         Unixware from SCO (an MS subsidiary), 
         because that way we'll be saving $650. 

 Funniest part: "Now... look over the enclosed UnixWare "New Features" 
sheet. Compare it to the Linux OS you're currently saddled with. Be 
honest. Which OS would you really like to be running on your system 
right now?" 

LOL :-D 

 They must think we all just fell off the turnip truck.

From: Jerry Hicks <wghhi...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SCO's letter to Linux Users HAHAHA
Date: 1997/12/05
Message-ID: <34878D3C.DBD08F81@ix.netcom.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 295380221
References: <3483CCB2.33553880@anv.net>
Reply-To: wghhi...@ix.netcom.com
To: "Steven R. Robertson" <srob...@anv.net>
Organization: TerraEarth
X-NETCOM-Date: Thu Dec 04  9:11:49 PM PST 1997
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


In all fairness (I am *not* an SCO fan) here is their response:
>
> This was not sent by SCO, but one of our distributors.  It has not been
> received very favorably at SCO, you can be sure.  Red Hat, of course, is
> trying to get as much mileage out of it as they can (can't totally blame 
> them (although they should know that it didn't originate from SCO)).
> 
> gfd
> <g...@sco.com>

I just had a hard time believing that they would intentionally
participate in this sort of spamming, being a Unix vendor themselves.

That would hurt them with even their loyal adherents.

I originally suspicioned that this actually emanated from the RedHat
marketing machine.

Cheers,

Jerry Hicks
jerry_hi...@bigfoot.com


Steven R. Robertson wrote:
> 
> I am ROTFLMAO after reading the letter from SCO. I just saw this today.
> Red Hat thought we would enjoy it and published it at
> http://www.redhat.com/news/news-details.phtml?id=46
>  Let's see if I got this straight.
>       1. There is no tech support for Linux.
>       2. It is maintained by amateurs only.
>       3. We should all pluck down $1400 and replace
>          our free Linux systems with
>          Unixware from SCO (an MS subsidiary),
>          because that way we'll be saving $650.
> 
>  Funniest part: "Now... look over the enclosed UnixWare "New Features"
> sheet. Compare it to the Linux OS you're currently saddled with. Be
> honest. Which OS would you really like to be running on your system
> right now?"
> 
> LOL :-D
> 
>  They must think we all just fell off the turnip truck.

From: nos...@minivend.com
Subject: Re: SCO's letter to Linux Users HAHAHA
Date: 1997/12/07
Message-ID: <66duh3$g3f$1@news.one.net>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 296080548
References: <3483CCB2.33553880@anv.net> <34878D3C.DBD08F81@ix.netcom.com>
Organization: OneNet Communications, Inc. News Server
User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-971106 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.32 (i586))
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


Jerry Hicks <wghhi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> In all fairness (I am *not* an SCO fan) here is their response:
>>
>> This was not sent by SCO, but one of our distributors.  It has not been
>> received very favorably at SCO, you can be sure.  Red Hat, of course, is
>> trying to get as much mileage out of it as they can (can't totally blame 
>> them (although they should know that it didn't originate from SCO)).
>> 
>> gfd
>> <g...@sco.com>

> I just had a hard time believing that they would intentionally
> participate in this sort of spamming, being a Unix vendor themselves.

> That would hurt them with even their loyal adherents.

> I originally suspicioned that this actually emanated from the RedHat
> marketing machine.

Sorry, I came in late -- I just received the infamous letter today.
I see most had the same reaction as I did.

The letter I received had a return address of Scotts Valley, CA,
a stones throw from Santa Cruz and SCO.  It was on official-looking
SCO letterhead (though it came from "SCO Services Sales").

This type of IBM-ish FUD tactic (fear, uncertainty, and doubt) does
not sit well with me.  I wasn't a likely SCO customer anyway (I am too
happy with Linux) but the letter was really bush league. I had occasion
to deal with SCO "professional" support in the past and found it to be
several levels below that which we "amateurs" give.

If professional is some database droid reading answers off of scripts,
I would rather take the amateur. 8-)

I thought the part about kernel debugging was really low until I
thought about it -- with their stuff you don't have the source, so
you can't debug it! And don't expect fast turnaround from them, at
least if my past experience holds true. 

And referring to Linux as "old", that really takes the cake. UnixWare is
warmed-over AT&T System V Release 4, circa 1989, which in its X86 version
has an extremely poor track record for speed and performance. Linux
wasn't even born then!

As to reliability, the only time I have had Linux 2.0.x go down 
is when there were power interruptions. ROTFL, no question.

Regards,
Mike Heins

P.S.  I take it that when you refer to "spamming", you don't mean the 
electronic mail kind.

From: Jerry Hicks <wghhi...@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: SCO's letter to Linux Users HAHAHA
Date: 1997/12/08
Message-ID: <348C89E5.AC4644F5@ix.netcom.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 296449544
References: <3483CCB2.33553880@anv.net> <34878D3C.DBD08F81@ix.netcom.com> 
<66duh3$g3f$1@news.one.net>
Followup-To: poster
Organization: TerraEarth
X-NETCOM-Date: Mon Dec 08  5:59:00 PM CST 1997
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.advocacy


nos...@minivend.com wrote:
> 
> Jerry Hicks <wghhi...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
> > I just had a hard time believing that they would intentionally
> > participate in this sort of spamming, being a Unix vendor themselves.
> 
> P.S.  I take it that when you refer to "spamming", you don't mean the
> electronic mail kind.

I had it wrong at first, thinking this letter had gone out email.

But, it still qualifies as spam to me! (Sorry Hormel ;)

By calling this thing out and getting to the bottom of who really sent
the letter, SCO has been forced to publicly acknowledge the viability of
free software.

Instead of reacting with the usual dose of sarcasm, RH could have taken
a magnanimous and more mature approach.  This probably could have been
leveraged to provide some very good publicity from the mainstream press.

Oh well, they'll learn soon enough.

SCO offered a public apology and RedHat has removed the reference from
the home page of their website.

I think that's pretty cool.

Cheers,

Jerry Hicks
jerry_hi...@bigfoot.com

-------------------------------------------
Can't we all just get along?  - Rodney King

From: Gunnar Beushausen <u...@beushausen.wl.eunet.de>
Subject: SCO hat Angst for Linux
Date: 1997/12/06
Message-ID: <34892274.75ADE608@beushausen.wl.eunet.de>
X-Deja-AN: 295718443
Organization: Gunnar Beushausen
Reply-To: u...@beushausen.wl.eunet.de
Newsgroups: de.comp.os.linux.misc


Hallo!

SCO, der Marktführer bei Intel basierten Unix Server Systemen hat nach
20 Jahren guter Arbeit letztendlich doch Angst vor einem Konkurenten
bekommen. Nicht allerdings wie vermutet vor WindowsNT (Microsoft ist
Teilhaber von SCO), sondern vor Linux! Daß äußerte sich darin, daß SCO
an viele Linux User in Amerika Briefe verschickte in denen die tollen
"Vorteile" von dem neuen Unixware im Gegensatz zu allen "Nachteilen" von
Linux aufgeführt wurden. Diesen Brief kann man im eingescannten Orginal
übrigens bei RedHat auf der Homepage nachlesen. Nachdem RedHat dieses
Gebahren nun veröffentlicht hat und sich Zahlreiche Linux user inclusive
Presse bei SCO beschwert haben entschuldigt sich SCO nun mit
eingekniffenem Schwanz.

Ich denke soetwas hat kein Marktführer nötig, der von seinen Produkten
überzeugt ist. Ich habe nachfolgend mal eine Kopie des Briefes kopiert,
den SCO an die Linux User verschickte (bei einem Umstieg von Linux auf
SCO gibt's sogar Rabatt!) und nachfolgend die Entschuldigung von SCO
dafür. SCO bettelt jetzt übrigens bei RedHat nun auch die Entschuldigung
auf deren Webpage zu veröffentlichen. Bis jetzt hat sich allerdings noch
nichts getan...

-------------------


The Letter

November 7, 1997

Your Old Linux OS was fine...

But, now there's something that blows it out of the water! Introducing
the NEWEST VERSION of SCO's hot OS...UnixWare 2.1.2

Move up to UnixWare now and SAVE BIG with this SPECIAL TRADE-IN OFFER.

Dear Linux User:

I want to bump you out of your comfort zone! (And you'll thank me for
doing it.)

Right now you're plodding along with your old Linux OS, when instead you
could throw the throttle wide open with SCO's powerful new UnixWare
2.1.2.

Sure it's hard to move up from an old familiar OS. But when the rewards
are so dramatic -- it's simple the right business decision.

                                          You May Feel Your Linux Is
Adequate...

                                               But, Did You Know This?

   1.Linux has no technical support or maintenance.
   2.Linux has no defined strategy for the future.
   3.Most Important, can your company accept that its viability as a
business depends heavily on a freeware product maintained by a small
number of people on an
     essentially volunteer basis?
   4.Of course, there is a challenging aspect to Linux. Just imagine all
of the fun you get when you encounter a bug and debug the kernel
yourself.

Now... look over the enclosed UnixWare "New Features" sheet. Compare it
to the Linux OS you're currently saddled with. Be honest. Which OS would
you really like to be
running on your system right now?

                                           Unleash your system's full
potential.

                                      Make the jump NOW to SCO UnixWare
2.1.2 on Intel

What makes UnixWare 2.1.2 so hot? It's Web and Java ready. Fully
optimized for the Internet and intranets. And, most important... You get
unprecedented, mainframe levels
of system reliability. Known for years as the most reliable, scalable,
secure OS on the Intel platform, SCO UnixWare run thousands of
business-critical applications for
thousands of businesses across the world. It's the world's
performance-lading, Enterprise class operating system for the Intel
platform. And, it opens the way for you to
enjoy all the benefits of exciting, new "Internet Way of Computing." SCO
Software Maintenance. An Important Bonus!

To keep your system current and running smoothly, I'm including one year
of SCO Software Maintenance in this TRADE-IN OFFER. Each quarter you'll
automatically
receive a CD-ROM deliverable containing ALL UnixWare major releases,
updates, patches, and enhancements. If SCO's released it during the
quarter for the products
you've signed up for...you'll get it automatically! No downloading. No
ordering. Everything you need arrives on one easy to install CD,
ensuring your system is absolutely
current at all times.

                                           Now's The Right Time To Move
Up!

To encourage you to move up now, I've put together the following
limited-time SPECIAL TRADE-IN OFFER...

        UnixWare 2.1.2 Enterprise
          (5-user system).................... $1,395
        SCO Software Maintenance (1-Year).... $  749
                                              ------
        Regular Price.........................$2,144

        YOUR PRICE.......................just $1,495
        You Save $650!!!

Here's the real bottom line... Make the jump now and you'll experience
the improved system performance, peace of mind, and personal
productivity that only SCO UnixWare
2.1.2 can give you. And you'll SAVE $650! Please pick up the phone now
and call 1-800-726-8652, dept. 365041 and trade up to UnixWare 2.1.2. I
look forward to hearing
from you.


----------------------
SCO's entschuldigung
----------------------



Dear Linux Users,

Recently some of you have received a letter sent by SCO Services Sales,
promoting the features and benefits of SCO Unixware technology in
comparison
with Linux and presenting a competitive trade-in offer to switch from
Linux
to SCO Unixware products.

Regrettably, that letter was created and mailed out without adequate
reviews. SCO wishes to apologize to you as the content and the tone of
the
letter was offensive. We assure you that measures have been taken to
ensure
that such an occurrence does not happen again.

For almost 20 years of UNIX system leadership we have taken pride in
treating competitive products--and more importantly, their users--with
respect and dignity. These days, it is more important than ever for both

users and vendors of UNIX products, including Linux, to recognize the
essential goals and some of the challenges we have in common, and to
work
towards developing innovative solutions using the appropriate tools as
each
of us sees fit.

While SCO is committed to offering the best and most innovative
solutions
for its customers, we respect and value the creativity of other vendors
from
which mutually beneficial innovations are born. In this spirit, I
request
your acceptance of our sentiments and that the good folks at Red Hat
post this
memo along side the original letter on their web site.

Sincerely,
Shamim Formoso,
Vice President, Partner Programs, SCO




--
---
Gunnar Beushausen
Gun...@hof.de
http://www.hof.de/~gbasic

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