From: Kurt Garloff <K Garloff ping de> To: AXP List <axp-list redhat com> Subject: [OFFTOPIC] 21264 and future of RISCs Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:08:39 +0200 Hi, this is offtopic, but I thought it might interest a lot of people, so I send a few lines. In the recent issue of the german computer mag, c't, is an article about the 21264. There's a detailed technical description of the architecture and and explanation why it's powerful. According to the article, EV67-800 (4Q/98, 0.28\mu) will have about 50/75 SPECint95/fp95 resp. However, when intel will release it's IA64 (Merced) in mid-2000 (optimistically), their CPU is likely to score 40-50/75 (0.18\mu). Alpha by this time will have EV7-1200 (0.18\mu) with 90/135 which is almost the double. According to the article, other RISCs will disappear. SGI (Rx0000) switches to IA64, Sun (SPARC) switches to IA64, HP of course (they are part of the IA64 project). Only IBM wants to make Power3, which will be some sort of unification between PowerPC and the Power processors for AS/400,RS/6000. This one is to be released by the end of the year (SPECs:>30/>70). So, if I don't miss anything, there will be just three major RISC architectures left. Think about it.... It's a little bit strange to see, that Digital are 2 years, IBM 1.5 years ahead of intel (HP, SGI and Sun also were ahead), but everybody switches to IA64. (There will be a couple of Unices for IA64, at least Sun's Solaris, and HP-UX. SGI seems to go NT.) It seems that it's getting harder and harder to make money with CPUs. (Think of Cray.) I hope, that at least Digital and IBM will survive the intel attack and that Linux will support all of these three platforms. I don't know, if IBM is cooperative, but at least, we know, Digital used to support Linux. I hope this won't change with Compaq. Have a nice day ... -- Kurt Garloff, Dortmund <K.Garloff@ping.de> PGP key on http://student.physik.uni-dortmund.de/homepages/garloff
From: "Jon 'maddog' Hall, USG Senior Leader" <hall zk3 dec com> To: axp-list redhat com Cc: hall zk3 dec com Subject: Re: [OFFTOPIC] 21264 and future of RISCs Date: Fri, 17 Jul 98 10:39:40 -0400 K.Garloff@ping.de said: > So, if I don't miss anything, there will be just three major RISC > architectures left. Think about it.... It's a little bit strange to > see, that Digital are 2 years, IBM 1.5 years ahead of intel (HP, SGI > and Sun also were ahead), but everybody switches to IA64. (There will > be a couple of Unices for IA64, at least Sun's Solaris, and HP-UX. > SGI seems to go NT.) First of all, I am not completely disagreeing with you, but like a lot of things, CPU markets are not simple. While the Alpha platform has been in the spotlight for Digital for the past nine years (yes, it has been nine years inside Digital), we still make VAXes for those who need them. There are companies that are still making PDP-11 chips under license. It was only a few years ago that the "PDP-8" was put out of production (there were a couple of companies making one-chip PDP-8 emulators). Remember Zilog? Of Z80 fame? The chip that was in the Osborne and a lot of other CP/M systems? Still alive and well. See http://www.zilog.com/frames/fz80_180micro.html I can not speak for Sun, but I strongly doubt that they will drop the SPARC as soon as Merced hits the streets. I think that people missed the fact that SGI will still use MIPS chips in their high-end servers, and that MIPS was going to generate lots of chips for lower-end and embedded systems. >It seems that it's getting harder and harder to make money with CPUs. (Think >of Cray.) I will not disagree that it is getting harder and harder to make money with CPUs. FAB plants have gone from the expensive to the ridiculous....but so is the market for CPUs growing at a rate that is more than remarkable. Companies have switched strategies and taken on strange bedfellows. Cray had a completely different market, and was undercut by the drop in the supercomputer market. > I hope, that at least Digital and IBM will survive the intel attack > and that Linux will support all of these three platforms. I don't > know, if IBM is cooperative, but at least, we know, Digital used to > support Linux. I hope this won't change with Compaq. Ahem, Digital STILL supports Linux, even though we have changed our name to Compaq. Keep the faith. Warmest regards, md -- ============================================================================= Jon "maddog" Hall Internet: maddog@zk3.dec.com Senior Leader, UNIX Software Group Executive Director, Linux International Compaq Computer Corporation Linux International Mailstop ZK03-2/U15 80 Amherst St. 110 Spit Brook Rd. Amherst, N.H. 03031-3032 U.S.A. Nashua, N.H. 03062-2698 U.S.A. WWW: http://www.compaq.com WWW: http://www.li.org Voice: +1.603.884.1341 Voice: +1.603.672.4557 FAX: +1.603.884.6424 Board Member: Uniforum Association Office: ZK03-2/V15 Board Member: USENIX Association