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List:       linux-video
Subject:    [video4linux] The ATI Problem
From:       matthew.mellon () cp ! Novartis ! com
Date:       1998-11-05 20:25:35

Hello. This is my first appearance on this list.

I am one of those idiots who bought an ATI Bt829 All-in-Wonder
and can't get drivers for any OS except Windows9x/NT.

Question: If I get a SCSI DVD-ROM, can I use the decoder
on my All-in-Wonder or will I need to buy a separate board?

I would like to share the response I got from ATI after I complained.

Thanks,

Matt Mellon


---Message received 11-4-98 15:46:34.78 ---
Matthew,

We have made ATI Technical Support management aware of your concerns.
I am not sure where they will be able to go with this as I do not
believe that are able to offer refunds.  They will address this with the
representatives involved via training.

At this time the low level information and support necessary to develop
TV Tuner drivers for Linux are not available as you have discovered.
ATI has much confidential information that we will not release except in
a complied form as well as some third party information that we also may
not make public in regards to the tv tuner side of the board.  We are
working with a 3rd party to develop something that may be used in Linux
but it will be some time before this is ready for release and the
release will not be under ATI control.

I apologize for the issues you found when attempting to investigate the
available support.  We have forwarded your suggestion for the box and
Technical Support is looking into updating their web site with more
concise information.

Regards,

Michael Smith
ATI Developer Relations
devrel@atitech.ca

 ----------
 From:
 matthew.mellon@cp.Novartis.com[SMTP:matthew.mellon@cp.Novartis.com]
 Sent: 	Monday, November 02, 1998 12:11 PM
 To: 	devrel@atitech.ca
 Subject: 	ATI's refusal to support the brooktree/philips video
 processor/tuner components of their graphics adapters in UNIX
 environments
 
 Dear sir or madam,
 
 	I am a Research Systems technician at Novartis Crop Protection, Inc.
 In Greensboro, NC. We have been pleased with the overall performance
 of your products through the years; we have been fortunate to have had ATI
 graphics cards in all of our PC's purchased through Gateway 2000. We have
 worked with products containing the Graphics Ultra (Mach8), Mach32, and
Mach
 64/Rage/Rage II+ and Rage Pro chipsets. I am very disappointed by your
 refusal to release drivers or low-level programming information for your
 video processors and tuners for non-Microsoft OS's. I bought an ATI
 All-in-Wonder 4MB ($149) exclusively for the purpose of veiwing
 video content on my Linux-based PC.
 	Your tech support page has a rather encouraging note: "A large
number
 of ATI graphics products are installed and are well regarded in the UNIX
 community although ATI does not offer drivers or technical support for any
form
 of UNIX. ATI has achieved this by working closely with O/S and X-Windows
 vendors. Over the years, ATI has provided thousands of dollars worth of
 products, technical documentation and in-depth technical assistance in
 order to assist with the development of drivers for our products."
 	I called and asked your technical support for compatibility
information and
 was told by one of your technicians that "although ATI did not support the
 All-in-Wonder in Linux, drivers may be obtained via USENET." Also, the
 All-in-Wonder appeared on the Linux 2.0.34 Hardware Compatibility List.
After close inspection of the packaging, I could not find an OS listed
 in the system requirements on the box.
 	I was quite frustrated when the bttv package drivers did not
 work with my card. I soon found that they only work for the Bt848 tuner,
 which is not the same model as the one on my board. I called ATI support
back,
 and this time the tech would not give me any information at all. As soon
 as I said my OS was Linux, he refused to answer any more questions. I
 finally bought an installation support contract with Red Hat ($40) in order
 that I could ask them about my problem. They pointed me to the Video for
 Linux web page, where it is stated that ATI has repeatedly refused to
release
 developer information on its products and that Linux/Xfree86 drivers
 would probably never be available. Why did not ATI tell me this on either
of
 the occasions I called? Your technical service department has wasted
 countless hours of my time and approximately $200 dollars out of my wallet.
 	I am also confused as to why you cannot release drivers for your
 Brooktree/Philips products when Hauppauge and other video capture
 vendors have released developer information about chipsets from the same
 manufacturers.
 	I really am disgusted by your disregard for my time and your
 failure to label your products properly.
 	The Linux community wants drivers for your cards and has an
 install base of nearly 1.2 million users. Why do you continue to ignore
that
 market?
 	The store from which I bought that card has refused a return,
 stating that the card is not defective, and they do not carry another
 brand for which I can exchange it. I would like you to either furnish a
 driver for my card in Linux, provide the Linux community with low-level
 programming information that would allow us to furnish a driver, or allow
me to
 return the card for a refund of the purchase price. Whatever you do, you
 should mark your video products clearly on the label with a note to the
 effect of "Video features work only in Microsoft Windows 9x/NT
environments.",
 and your technicians should tell inquirers up front that your video
 products are not ideal for Linux users.
 
 Sincerely,
 
 Matthew J. Mellon
 (336) 632-2307
 matthew.mellon@cp.novartis.com 
 

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List:       linux-video
Subject:    Re: [video4linux] The ATI Problem
From:       Alan Cox < alan () cymru ! net>
Date:       1998-11-05 22:32:36

> Hello. This is my first appearance on this list.
> 
> I am one of those idiots who bought an ATI Bt829 All-in-Wonder
> and can't get drivers for any OS except Windows9x/NT.
> 
> Question: If I get a SCSI DVD-ROM, can I use the decoder
> on my All-in-Wonder or will I need to buy a separate board?
> 
> I would like to share the response I got from ATI after I complained.

Its a standard message over a year old - dont hope too hard
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message.

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