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From: Josef Grosch <jgro...@mooseriver.com>
Subject: BAFUG participation in Bay Area Microsoft Refund Day
Date: 1999/02/12
Message-ID: <19990212090639.A1949@mooseriver.com>#1/1
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On Monday, February 15, the Bay Area FreeBSD community can join with
other PC users in returning unused, unwanted, bundled copies of Win9x
and other Microsoft software _to Microsoft_ in Foster City, for 
refund.  With television coverage and reporters from all over the
world.

(This right is guaranteed by _Microsoft's own_ license contract.
See:  http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/license.html)

The event is being coordinated with similar events (the same day)
in Orange County, New York City, New Zealand, France, Japan, and the 
Netherlands -- and has gotten huge amounts of publicity.  See:
http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html   (all articles, and timeline)

Main Windows Refund Day sites:
    * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/      <- Monitor this one for the Bay Area.
    * http://LinuxMall.com/refund/
    * http://zork.net/refund/
    * http://www.deirdre.org/rebellion.html
    * http://www.netmonger.net/~onr/refund.html
    * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/japan/
    * http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/
    * http://www.linux-center.org/detaxe/index.shtml
    * http://www.uniforum.org.nz/windowsrefund/

Here in the Bay Area, *BSD and Linux people are invited to 
assemble at any of four "posse" locations, _before_ 10 AM, Monday, 
when we will all carpool/caravan to Foster City.

Open-source essayist Eric S. Raymond will be there.  The band 
"Severe Tire Damage" ("the first band on the Internet") is supposed 
to be do a gig there, AND send it out over the MBONE.

Is Microsoft just a tad nervous?  They might be, given that we
troublemakers have already transformed two of their recent company 
PR events into open-source ones:  

    * http://www.svlug.org/events/tea-party-199811.shtml
    * http://hugin.imat.com/svlug/
    * http://www.penguincomputing.com/svlug-rally.html
    * http://hugin.imat.com/launch98/
    * http://www.svlug.org/events/launch98.shtml

We are also getting a large amount of press coverage. At last count we had
62 articles including ones from India, Malaysia, France, Australia, New
Zealand, England, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Copies of these articles can
be found at http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html
     
A whole flock of people from SCO are even hoping to turn up, _and_
maybe some from Sun Microsystems.  And that's not to mention the
party in San Francisco, afterwards.

(IMPORTANT:  See http://hugin.imat.com/refund/directions.html
for full details on the following, including directions and maps.)

    ==> Mountain View: Meet Posse organizer Chris Di Bona outside VA
        Research, 1235 Pear Ave. #111. near N. Shoreline Blvd. Also, please
        notify Chris immediately that you will be coming, at
        m...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)  

    ==> Oakland: Meet Posse organizer Scott McNeil at the passenger pickup
        zone at the entrance to MacArthur BART, no later than 10 AM. Also,
        please notify Scott immediately that you will be coming, at
        e...@linuxmafia.com. Please include if you can offer or are in need
        of a ride! Please note that the BART parking lot is for BART
        patrons. There is nearby on-street parking. (Directions.) (Map.)

    ==> San Francisco: Meet Posse organizer Rick Moen inside The CoffeeNet
        Internet cafe, 744 Harrison @ 3rd/4th Streets, no later than 10
        AM. Also, please notify Rick immediately that you will be coming,
        at s...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)  

    ==> Santa Clara: Meet Posse organizer Ian Kluft outside the Hotel
        Marriott Santa Clara, 2700 Mission College Blvd @ Great America, at
        the "F7" parking post near the tennis courts. Also, please notify
        Ian immediately that you will be coming, at
        s...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)

Stick around, because we're also going to have a party to remember
afterwards, at The CoffeeNet in San Francisco. 

Wear your BSD t-shirts!  Bring pitchforks and images of Chuck the daemon!  
Heck, bring BSDI and the blessed ghost of CSRG; it's going to be a blast, 
in any event.

This notice is also available on the BAFUG web site at
http://www.bafug.org/RefundDay.html 
      


Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 3.0
jgro...@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

From: Josef Grosch <jgro...@mooseriver.com>
Subject: BAFUG participation in Bay Area Microsoft Refund Day
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <19990214213046.A16632@mooseriver.com>#1/1
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                           -=> FINAL NOTICE <=-

On Monday, February 15, the Bay Area FreeBSD community can join with
other PC users in returning unused, unwanted, bundled copies of Win9x
and other Microsoft software _to Microsoft_ in Foster City, for 
refund.  With television coverage and reporters from all over the
world.

(This right is guaranteed by _Microsoft's own_ license contract.
See:  http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/license.html)

The event is being coordinated with similar events (the same day)
in Orange County, New York City, New Zealand, France, Japan, and the 
Netherlands -- and has gotten huge amounts of publicity.  See:
http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html   (all articles, and timeline)

Main Windows Refund Day sites:
    * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/      <- Monitor this one for the Bay Area.
    * http://LinuxMall.com/refund/
    * http://zork.net/refund/
    * http://www.deirdre.org/rebellion.html
    * http://www.netmonger.net/~onr/refund.html
    * http://hugin.imat.com/refund/japan/
    * http://www.nl.linux.org/geldterug/
    * http://www.linux-center.org/detaxe/index.shtml
    * http://www.uniforum.org.nz/windowsrefund/

Here in the Bay Area, *BSD and Linux people are invited to 
assemble at any of four "posse" locations, _before_ 10 AM, Monday, 
when we will all carpool/caravan to Foster City.

Open-source essayist Eric S. Raymond will be there.  The band 
"Severe Tire Damage" ("the first band on the Internet") is supposed 
to be do a gig there, AND send it out over the MBONE.

Is Microsoft just a tad nervous?  They might be, given that we
troublemakers have already transformed two of their recent company 
PR events into open-source ones:  

    * http://www.svlug.org/events/tea-party-199811.shtml
    * http://hugin.imat.com/svlug/
    * http://www.penguincomputing.com/svlug-rally.html
    * http://hugin.imat.com/launch98/
    * http://www.svlug.org/events/launch98.shtml

We are also getting a large amount of press coverage. At last count we had
62 articles including ones from India, Malaysia, France, Australia, New
Zealand, England, Sweden, and the Netherlands. Copies of these articles can
be found at http://hugin.imat.com/refund/coverage.html
     
A whole flock of people from SCO are even hoping to turn up, _and_
maybe some from Sun Microsystems.  And that's not to mention the
party in San Francisco, afterwards.

(IMPORTANT:  See http://hugin.imat.com/refund/directions.html
for full details on the following, including directions and maps.)

    ==> Mountain View: Meet Posse organizer Chris Di Bona outside VA
        Research, 1235 Pear Ave. #111. near N. Shoreline Blvd. Also, please
        notify Chris immediately that you will be coming, at
        m...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)  

    ==> Oakland: Meet Posse organizer Scott McNeil at the passenger pickup
        zone at the entrance to MacArthur BART, no later than 10 AM. Also,
        please notify Scott immediately that you will be coming, at
        e...@linuxmafia.com. Please include if you can offer or are in need
        of a ride! Please note that the BART parking lot is for BART
        patrons. There is nearby on-street parking. (Directions.) (Map.)

    ==> San Francisco: Meet Posse organizer Rick Moen inside The CoffeeNet
        Internet cafe, 744 Harrison @ 3rd/4th Streets, no later than 10
        AM. Also, please notify Rick immediately that you will be coming,
        at s...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)  

    ==> Santa Clara: Meet Posse organizer Ian Kluft outside the Hotel
        Marriott Santa Clara, 2700 Mission College Blvd @ Great America, at
        the "F7" parking post near the tennis courts. Also, please notify
        Ian immediately that you will be coming, at
        s...@linuxmafia.com. (Directions.) (Map.)

Stick around, because we're also going to have a party to remember
afterwards, at The CoffeeNet in San Francisco. 

Wear your BSD t-shirts!  Bring pitchforks and images of Chuck the daemon!  
Heck, bring BSDI and the blessed ghost of CSRG; it's going to be a blast, 
in any event.

This notice is also available on the BAFUG web site at
http://www.bafug.org/RefundDay.html 
      


Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 3.0
jgro...@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org
with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org>#1/1
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At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote:
 
>*NOTE* This has been moved to chat.
>
>BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has
>been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this
>off. 

And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure
that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the
press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they 
intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for 
patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at
the event uses Linux, and only Linux.

It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users 
of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they 
must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris,
BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's
popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a
site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine
protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt
for their one alternative.

BAFUG should make DARN sure that the press knows it's there. Better
bring BIG banners with "FreeBSD" and the daemon logo displayed
prominently -- not to mention disks, buttons, and T-shirts, if possible. 
And TALK to the press -- as much as the Linuxoids, if not more so. Don't 
let the Linux "handlers" be the only ones represented in the reports. 
You can bet that the rabid Linux zealots  will try to give the impression 
that everyone there is a Linux user, or that BSD is somehow "the same as"
Linux and need not be mentioned.

--Brett Glass


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with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

From: Amancio Hasty <ha...@rah.star-gate.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
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I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt
for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed
wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8)

	Have Fun,
	Amancio



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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <4.1.19990214132540.00a5f4b0@mail.lariat.org>#1/1
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At 12:22 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote:
 
>I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt
>for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed
>wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8)

I think that's a great idea. Are FreeBSD buttons available? (If not,
it should be easy to take some readily available artwork and make some.)

But it's still important to talk directly to the press. Many of the
press people there (especially those who are NOT from computer trade
pubs) won't know that a picture of Chuck The Besneakered Daemon represents
something other than Linux. (They may even mistakenly believe that
it represents Microsoft and/or Bill Gates.) They'd better make the
point that FreeBSD is the "other, better free UNIX." Or, again, they'll
be seen as supporting Linux and will have been played for fools.

--Brett Glass

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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <199902142050.MAA05249@dingo.cdrom.com>#1/1
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> At 12:22 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Amancio Hasty wrote:
>  
> >I will not be a bad idea if FreeBSD folks decide to show which I doubt
> >for they love to hang out on the FreeBSD mailing lists to indeed
> >wear a FreeBSD T-Shirt --- if you have one of course 8)
> 
> I think that's a great idea. Are FreeBSD buttons available? (If not,
> it should be easy to take some readily available artwork and make some.)

Not yet.  I'm thinking I really ought to go, even though Vacaville is 
a damn long way to come from.  I'll go through the WC offices and grab 
some promo stuff (stickers are my favorite tool), but I don't think I 
could manage tshirts or hats at this point.  I'll see what I can do - I 
would hope that not too many prospective FreeBSD hat-orderes would mind 
that their hats had been preworn for an hour or two in a major protest.

> But it's still important to talk directly to the press. Many of the
> press people there (especially those who are NOT from computer trade
> pubs) won't know that a picture of Chuck The Besneakered Daemon represents
> something other than Linux. (They may even mistakenly believe that
> it represents Microsoft and/or Bill Gates.) They'd better make the
> point that FreeBSD is the "other, better free UNIX." Or, again, they'll
> be seen as supporting Linux and will have been played for fools.

Brett - will _you_ be there?  For all your irritation, you know how to
handle these people, as well as spot them.  Remember that most of us are
tech types; give us a break.

I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect.  (Cursing that we don't 
have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...)

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message

From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <4.1.19990214140038.00b231c0@mail.lariat.org>#1/1
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At 12:50 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
 
>Brett - will _you_ be there?  

I'll be in Southern California. I was originally going to go to the
Bay Area. But when I saw the FAQ and my friends the NetWare admins
opted out (and also opted out of arranging to bring more NetWare
people), I decided to stay in LA, where I'll already be on a
consulting job. I'll have to fight traffic to get to one of
their sites; traffic there is NASTY.

>For all your irritation, you know how to
>handle these people, as well as spot them.  Remember that most of us are
>tech types; give us a break.

It's not hard. One of the best way is to have something WRITTEN
to hand them, so that when they gather their notes the information is
there. I'd recommend anything you have about FreeBSD, including the
booklet that comes inside the CD-ROM. Copies of positive reviews
will also get their attention, as will a simple "What is FreeBSD?"
FAQ. Remember, about 3/4ths of the COMPUTER trade press has never heard 
of FreeBSD, and I expect that the number of people in the MAINSTREAM press 
who have heard of it is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Just 
getting a mention in the stories that run on the major newswires would be 
invaluable.

>I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect.  (Cursing that we don't 
>have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...)

You're not talking about the blonde female daemon character that recently
popped up in Daemon News, are you? ;-)

--Brett


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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
Message-ID: <199902142118.NAA05424@dingo.cdrom.com>#1/1
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> It's not hard. One of the best way is to have something WRITTEN
> to hand them, so that when they gather their notes the information is
> there. I'd recommend anything you have about FreeBSD, including the
> booklet that comes inside the CD-ROM. Copies of positive reviews
> will also get their attention, as will a simple "What is FreeBSD?"
> FAQ. Remember, about 3/4ths of the COMPUTER trade press has never heard 
> of FreeBSD, and I expect that the number of people in the MAINSTREAM press 
> who have heard of it is so vanishingly small as to be negligible. Just 
> getting a mention in the stories that run on the major newswires would be 
> invaluable.

Ok.  I think we have some text we did for Comdex; I'll hit Jordan about 
it (he's just a shade busy right now...).

> >I'll be at the Oakland staging area I expect.  (Cursing that we don't 
> >have the Daemon Babe outfits yet...)
> 
> You're not talking about the blonde female daemon character that recently
> popped up in Daemon News, are you? ;-)

I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me 
to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can 
wander around poking people with tridents.  Think Bannarama's "Venus" 
video if you're having trouble with the image...

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
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At 01:18 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Mike Smith wrote:
 
>I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me 
>to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can 
>wander around poking people with tridents.  Think Bannarama's "Venus" 
>video if you're having trouble with the image...

Actually, I'm thinking of the "Devil Girls" from Schmidt and Jones'
musical, "Celebration." 

If you want to obtain unusual leather goods in the Bay Area, try

http://www.stormyleather.com/

Friends who are into bondage and discipline (I'm not) say that 
this is THE place to go in the Bay Area for such things.

However, I'd think that red leotards and tights would be just as
effective and more comfortable (leather is sweaty). They're also
MUCH more  available if you're seeking to outfit a few she-daemons 
on short notice. There must be approximately one zillion dancewear
stores in the Bay Area.

--Brett


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From: Josef Grosch <jgro...@mooseriver.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/14
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On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote:
>  
> >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat.
> >
> >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has
> >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this
> >off. 
> 
> And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure
> that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the
> press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they 
> intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for 
> patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at
> the event uses Linux, and only Linux.

No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury
News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took
great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They
emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was
better in a good number of ways.

> It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users 
> of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they 
> must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris,
> BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's
> popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a
> site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine
> protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt
> for their one alternative.

Brett, I am confused how someone who is not here and does not know the
people involved can pretend to know what is going on. The above statement is
_NOT_ what is going on. Other OS people have been invited and a number of
them, such as Solaris and SCO will be there. The BeOs people have be asked
by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their
act together. 

I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and
Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a
year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the
Install-A-Thons. I have seen Duncan MacKinnon, Rick Moen and, Don Marti at
our meetings and Install-A-Thons. In fact, these hard-core Linux people and
others have shown up at most of our Install-A-Thons to help out with
promoting FreeBSD and installing FreeBSD. I can't count the number of times
I have heard Rick Moen say to people asking about Linux or FreeBSD that
FreeBSD has a better IP stack or VM system. He often tells people that if
they are running a web server that is getting 1000 hits a day that either
Linux or FreeBSD will do but if you are getting 1,000,000 hits a day you
had better be running FreeBSD, that Linux will just not hold up to that
kind of traffic.

The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD
camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my
friend". We play very well together. Both camps are mature enough to
acknowledge the strengths of the other OS and weakness of their own
OS. You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. Something that
most people including myself do not like. You are giving FreeBSD a bad
name. If you wish to be an ideologue, fine, just do it some where else.

I have not seen you at any of the meetings and have never shown up to work
the Install-A-Thons. The only thing you have contributed to the Refund Day
effort is to piss and moan about how the evil Linux people are taking
over. To be very blunt, I am running this show and you don't have a say in
this.  Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you
running Install-A-Thons? What are you doing to promote FreeBSD beside
pissing and moaning? All you are managing to do is to get youself enshrined
in peoples kill filters. 

Brett, If you don't have something positive to contribute please have the
good grace to bugger off.


Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 3.0
jgro...@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


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From: Drew Baxter <netmon...@genesis.ispace.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/14
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I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is
a holiday.. :)

At 04:57 PM 2/14/99 , Josef Grosch wrote:
>On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 11:59:58AM -0700, Brett Glass wrote:
>> At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote:
>>  
>> >*NOTE* This has been moved to chat.
>> >
>> >BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has
>> >been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this
>> >off. 
>> 
>> And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure
>> that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the
>> press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they 
>> intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for 
>> patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at
>> the event uses Linux, and only Linux.
>
>No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury
>News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took
>great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They
>emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was
>better in a good number of ways.
>
>> It's also worth noting that the Bay Area organizers are telling users 
>> of alternative operating systems that are NOT "open source" that they 
>> must do "separate" protests. This includes BSDi, as well as Solaris,
>> BeOs, OS/2, NetWare, etc. They are also making sure that the URL that's
>> popularized as having information about the event is the URL of a
>> site devoted to Linux. They're turning the event not into a genuine
>> protest against Microsoft's tactics but rather into a publicity stunt
>> for their one alternative.
>
>Brett, I am confused how someone who is not here and does not know the
>people involved can pretend to know what is going on. The above statement is
>_NOT_ what is going on. Other OS people have been invited and a number of
>them, such as Solaris and SCO will be there. The BeOs people have be asked
>by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their
>act together. 
>
>I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and
>Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a
>year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the
>Install-A-Thons. I have seen Duncan MacKinnon, Rick Moen and, Don Marti at
>our meetings and Install-A-Thons. In fact, these hard-core Linux people and
>others have shown up at most of our Install-A-Thons to help out with
>promoting FreeBSD and installing FreeBSD. I can't count the number of times
>I have heard Rick Moen say to people asking about Linux or FreeBSD that
>FreeBSD has a better IP stack or VM system. He often tells people that if
>they are running a web server that is getting 1000 hits a day that either
>Linux or FreeBSD will do but if you are getting 1,000,000 hits a day you
>had better be running FreeBSD, that Linux will just not hold up to that
>kind of traffic.
>
>The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD
>camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my
>friend". We play very well together. Both camps are mature enough to
>acknowledge the strengths of the other OS and weakness of their own
>OS. You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. Something that
>most people including myself do not like. You are giving FreeBSD a bad
>name. If you wish to be an ideologue, fine, just do it some where else.
>
>I have not seen you at any of the meetings and have never shown up to work
>the Install-A-Thons. The only thing you have contributed to the Refund Day
>effort is to piss and moan about how the evil Linux people are taking
>over. To be very blunt, I am running this show and you don't have a say in
>this.  Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you
>running Install-A-Thons? What are you doing to promote FreeBSD beside
>pissing and moaning? All you are managing to do is to get youself enshrined
>in peoples kill filters. 
>
>Brett, If you don't have something positive to contribute please have the
>good grace to bugger off.

---
Drew "Droobie" Baxter
Network Admin/Professional Computer Nerd(TM)
OneEX: The OneNetwork Exchange, Bangor Maine USA
http://www.droo.orland.me.us

PGP DSS/1024 Public Key ID: 0x409A1F7D


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From: Josef Grosch <jgro...@mooseriver.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/14
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On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote:
> I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is
> a holiday.. :)

We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will
be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all
the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ?


Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 3.0
jgro...@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/14
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> On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 05:01:38PM -0500, Drew Baxter wrote:
> > I'm just kinda curious if Microsoft is closed tomorrow because tomorrow is
> > a holiday.. :)
> 
> We have spoken to microsoft several times and they have said that they will
> be open. Now, if that is just a ploy and they are closed then this is all
> the better. Do you remember the movie "Roger and Me" ?

Given that this is California, there should be enough truck-like 
vehicles involved that someone will have enough chain and traction to 
deal with something so flimsy as "doors".

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/14
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At 01:57 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote:
 
>No, brett this is not the case. I was interviewed by the San Jose Mercury
>News and the reporter told me that all the Linux people he interviewed took
>great pains to point out that there were other OSS beside Linux. They
>emphasized that Linux is equal to FreeBSD in most ways and FreeBSD was
>better in a good number of ways.

I hope that this is the case. It doesn't seem to be the case with the
group that's organizing the Bay Area event, though.

>The BeOs people have be asked
>by Rick Moen a number of time to attend. They just can't seem to get their
>act together. 

They shouldn't need to get a separate "act" together. This is an unnecessary
hurdle which Rick is imposing -- apparently in an attempt to get them to
bugger off.

>I have been running BAFUG for 2 years now (April in our 2nd anniversary) and
>Nicole Harrington and I have been doing the Install-A-Thons for almost a
>year now. I have never seen you at either the BAFUG meetings or the
>Install-A-Thons. 

That's because I jet in and out of the Bay Area on business (I live in 
Wyoming). Since I found out you existed (about 2 months ago), I haven't
had an opportunity to attend any of our events. 

>The truth of the matter is that here in the Bay Area the Linux and FreeBSD
>camps work together based on the theory that "The enemy of my enemy is my
>friend". 

It sure doesn't appear that way. I've been at a number of Bay Area
events at which the Linuxoids have bashed the BSDs at great length.

>You, on the other hand, are an ideologue and a zealot. 

Nope, you might say I'm an ANTI-ideologue and an ANTI-zealot. I see
Linux zealots trashing the BSDs and pushing the GPL -- which is 
destructive, anti-business, and anti-choice -- at the expense of 
those of us who'd like to have a choice. I have therefore spoken out 
about the problem.

>Let me ask you, are you running a users group in your area? Are you
>running Install-A-Thons? 

Yes and yes.

--Brett


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From: Greg Lehey <g...@lemis.com>
Subject: Brett Glass and reality (was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/15
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On Sunday, 14 February 1999 at 11:59:58 -0700, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 01:42 PM 2/13/99 -0800, Josef Grosch wrote:
>
>> *NOTE* This has been moved to chat.
>>
>> BAFUG (Bay Area FreeBSD Users Group) is also involved in this. BAFUG has
>> been coordating the Linux people here in the Bay Area to pull this
>> off.
>
> And the Linux people are doing everything in their power to make sure
> that the public thinks EVERYONE there is a Linux user. Note that the
> press report you quoted mentions ONLY Linux! My belief is that they
> intend to play the users of other operating systems who show up for
> patsies -- use them to strengthen the impression that everyone at
> the event uses Linux, and only Linux.

Brett, others have shown the errors in your claims.  They're not minor
errors: they are *completely unrelated to the facts*.

I've long since stopped taking anything you say seriously, and I wish
you'd realise that you do not represent the opinions of the majority
of the FreeBSD community.  If you are going to get involved in this
business, I certainly hope that nobody associates you with FreeBSD.

And now would you kindly shut up?

Greg
--
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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Reality
Date: 1999/02/14
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At 12:01 PM 2/15/99 +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
 
>I've long since stopped taking anything you say seriously, 

You're welcome to do that -- at your own risk, of course.

>and I wish
>you'd realise that you do not represent the opinions of the majority
>of the FreeBSD community.  

I don't claim to speek for "the majority of the FreeBSD community,"
and neither should you. 

>And now would you kindly shut up?

I haven't asked YOU to shut up, Greg. I think it's rude of you
to ask me to do the same just because you happen to disagree
with me. I believe that time will bear out my conclusions
vis-a-vis the intentions of the Linux zealots and the effects of
the GPL. Until then, kindly show some respect for others' views.

--Brett

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From: Amancio Hasty <ha...@rah.star-gate.com>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for  Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/14
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On the contrary , we need more people like Brett Glass.

He is trying to "rally the troops" if you can't contribute in a 
positive fashion stay out of it.

	Amancio



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From: Jason Evans <jas...@canonware.com>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/14
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On Sun, 14 Feb 1999, Amancio Hasty wrote:
> On the contrary , we need more people like Brett Glass.
> 
> He is trying to "rally the troops" if you can't contribute in a 
> positive fashion stay out of it.

FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them.  Don't
confuse advocacy and zealotry.

Jason

Jason Evans <jas...@canonware.com>
http://www.canonware.com/~jasone
Home phone: (650) 856-8204
Work phone: (415) 808-8742
"I once knew a happy medium.  Her name was Zohar." - James Foster


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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for  Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/14
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At 07:06 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Jason Evans wrote:
 
>FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them.  Don't
>confuse advocacy and zealotry.

I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to 
allow users of commercial operating systems to participate
WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate
that people do the right thing instead.

--Brett Glass


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From: Josef Grosch <jgro...@mooseriver.com>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for  Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/14
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On Sun, Feb 14, 1999 at 08:28:05PM -0700, Brett Glass wrote:
> At 07:06 PM 2/14/99 -0800, Jason Evans wrote:
>  
> >FreeBSD doesn't need zealots any more than Linux needs them.  Don't
> >confuse advocacy and zealotry.
> 
> I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to 
> allow users of commercial operating systems to participate
> WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate
> that people do the right thing instead.

I don't know about other Linux people but here in the Bay Area this is
_NOT_ the case. I know for a fact that the SCO, Solaris, OS/2, and BeOs
people have been invited to participate. They have all been asked several
times. The SCO and Solaris people have told us that they will be there. I
have no idea what happened with the OS/2 people but the BeOs people just
can't seem to muster up a few people to show up.

Josef

-- 
Josef Grosch           | Another day closer to a |    FreeBSD 3.0
jgro...@MooseRiver.com |   Micro$oft free world  | UNIX for the masses


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From: Terry Lambert <tlamb...@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
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> >I'm talking about a friend or three that are basically waiting for me 
> >to find suitable red leather catsuits and accessories so they can 
> >wander around poking people with tridents.  Think Bannarama's "Venus" 
> >video if you're having trouble with the image...
> 
> Actually, I'm thinking of the "Devil Girls" from Schmidt and Jones'
> musical, "Celebration." 

Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a
"Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season
goods for very cheap.


					Terry Lambert
					te...@lambert.org
---
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or previous employers.

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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/15
Message-ID: <4.1.19990215063152.040ced40@mail.lariat.org>#1/1
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At 07:28 AM 2/15/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
>Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a
>"Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season
>goods for very cheap.

I don't know if they need to go THAT cheap. However, leather catsuits
of the type described in Mike's message typically start at $500 for
"basic black" and go 'way up for custom colors. That's a hefty
investment.

--Brett


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From: Matthew Hunt <m...@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics
Date: 1999/02/15
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<4.1.19990214114417.03fa0480@mail.lariat.org> 
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On Mon, Feb 15, 1999 at 01:47:48PM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:

> 		It's exactly these kinds of fractious shoutings
> 		that keep the *BSD camps in the extreme minority.

You're attributing our "market share" to people like Brett?  It seems
to me that both Microsoft and Linux have supporters who are both
more offensive and more ignorant, and they seem to be doing okay.

I think the segment of people who have never heard of FreeBSD is a
lot bigger than the segment of people whom Brett has offended.

I'm sure that the FreeBSD Project is not so fragile that it can be
destroyed by a single vocal supporter.

-- 
Matthew Hunt <m...@pobox.com> * UNIX is a lever for the intellect. -J.R. Mashey
http://www.pobox.com/~mph/pgp.key for PGP public key 0x67203349.

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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/15
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> At 07:28 AM 2/15/99 +0000, Terry Lambert wrote:
> >Think adult she-devil halloween costumes at an "All-A-Dollar" or a
> >"Pic-N-Save" type store, where they tend to shovel out off season
> >goods for very cheap.
> 
> I don't know if they need to go THAT cheap. However, leather catsuits
> of the type described in Mike's message typically start at $500 for
> "basic black" and go 'way up for custom colors. That's a hefty
> investment.

You get what you pay for.  8)
-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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From: Terry Lambert <tlamb...@primenet.com>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for  Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/15
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> > I agree. The Linux "faithful" are engaging in zealotry by refusing to 
> > allow users of commercial operating systems to participate
> > WITH them in the Windows Refund Day event. We should advocate
> > that people do the right thing instead.
> 
> I don't know about other Linux people but here in the Bay Area this is
> _NOT_ the case. I know for a fact that the SCO, Solaris, OS/2, and BeOs
> people have been invited to participate. They have all been asked several
> times. The SCO and Solaris people have told us that they will be there. I
> have no idea what happened with the OS/2 people but the BeOs people just
> can't seem to muster up a few people to show up.

You need to read the FAQ; Brett is right.  From:

http://hugin.imat.com/refund/faq/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Are users of proprietary non-Microsoft OSes on Intel, such as BeOS,
   SolarisX86, SCO UnixWare, OS/2, QNX, and NeXTstep for Intel (to name
   a few) also welcome? 

A: This is an initiative of and by the open-source software community.
   We welcome separate efforts by users of proprietary OSes, who would
   certainly have an equally valid claim. If you hear of such an effort
   or want to start one, please contact a...@linuxmafia.com, and we'll
   be glad to assist (e.g., share information and link to your Web site). 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Apparently VA Research is making and distributing T-shirts for
coming to the refund day.  From the wording, I think they may
specifically be Linux T-shirts, and that you have to show up
at one of the car-pool points to get one (e.g., they may not
give them out at the site if you didn't come with them).  This
would definitely provide higher visibility by providing Linux
branded "uniforms".


					Terry Lambert
					te...@lambert.org
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.

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From: "John S. Dyson" <dy...@iquest.net>
Subject: Re: Brett Glass and reality 
(was: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for  Linux tactics)
Date: 1999/02/15
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Terry Lambert said:
> 
> You need to read the FAQ; Brett is right.  From:
> 
> http://hugin.imat.com/refund/faq/
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Q: Are users of proprietary non-Microsoft OSes on Intel, such as BeOS,
>    SolarisX86, SCO UnixWare, OS/2, QNX, and NeXTstep for Intel (to name
>    a few) also welcome? 
> 
> A: This is an initiative of and by the open-source software community.
>    We welcome separate efforts by users of proprietary OSes, who would
>    certainly have an equally valid claim. If you hear of such an effort
>    or want to start one, please contact a...@linuxmafia.com, and we'll
>    be glad to assist (e.g., share information and link to your Web site). 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Apparently VA Research is making and distributing T-shirts for
> coming to the refund day.  From the wording, I think they may
> specifically be Linux T-shirts, and that you have to show up
> at one of the car-pool points to get one (e.g., they may not
> give them out at the site if you didn't come with them).  This
> would definitely provide higher visibility by providing Linux
> branded "uniforms".
> 
> 
The in-a-way *sad* thing is that the BSD people are held to a higher
standard...

I wonder if the BSD people are Republicans of the free software world,
and Linux people are the Democrats :-).  (Allusion to the very sorry
state of politics in the US -- extreme double standard.)  Whether or
not Brett is over-advocating, at least he has the commitment to do so.
Is he anywhere as "bad" as Stallman (regarding blind, religious and
judgemental advocacy), for example?  How negatively has he affected
the software industry?  Is it anywhere nearly as bad as most of the
truly religious advocates?  Can Brett's attitude really be resolved
to religion, or is it really concern over the distruction of the
financial motivations for creativity?  It is pretty obvious that
it is the latter, and not the former.

BSD people are not allowed to "lower" themselves to the advocacy level?
That is (in a way) sad, but also good (in a way.)

-- 
John                  | Never try to teach a pig to sing,
dy...@iquest.net      | it makes one look stupid
jdy...@nc.com         | and it irritates the pig.

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From: Terry Lambert <tlamb...@primenet.com>
Subject: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day
Date: 1999/02/15
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Windows Refund Day


Well, a number of FreeBSD people actually showed up to "show the flag"
on "Windows Refund Day".

Not knowing the target time and being a Foster City resident, rather
than going to Oakland and carpooling back to Foster City, I showed up
a little before 11am.

The signs all said "Microsoft Event", and pointed around back to
the parking garage, where Microsoft had deflected the event to the
top floor of the parking garage.

The Foster City Police Department was out in record numbers.  I
counted five officers, which means that they had the normal
contingent, plus two officers on overtime.  There were a number
of private security officers there, as well, apparently employees
of the property management company that owns the building where
the Microsoft sales office is enshrined.

Being fully an hour early, there were few advocates, a few officers,
a grundle of reporters (I'd estimate around 50 of them) and the
members of the band "Severe Tire Damage", attempting to gain entry
to the garage to set up their equipment.

Severe Tire Damage was denied on the basis of noise ordinances;
the parking garage was perhaps as mush as 10 minutes walk from the
Leo J. Ryan Park in Foster City, where there are weekly free
concerts Friday evening throughout the summer.

In addition to the reporters, there was a professionally done silk
screened banner proclaiming "Microsoft Welcomes The Linux Community",
under which various beverages were placed on a table (generally
referred to throughout the event as "The Kool Aide").  Also on the
table were letters from Microsoft, claiming that you had your
choice of any OS on your PC (apparently, laptops aren't PCs), and
that you should contact the manufacturer for a refund, not Microsoft.

Also president was a Microsoft Spokesman (toeing the company line).

Prior to the zero hour of 12 noon, Microsoft people "rebadged" the
"Microsoft Event" signs as "Linux Event" signs -- excellent spin
control, actually, given that what started out as "Windows Refund Day"
was first downgraded to "Microsoft Event", and then "Linux Event".

The only thing that felt missing from the spin control process was an
"InstallShield" dialog box, with progress indicator, and two reboots.
Who says Microsoft doesn't support hot swapping?


I was rather disappointed in the V.A. Research T-shirts.  As expected,
they were more specific to Linux than they were to the Windows Refund
Day event.

At around 12 noon, the parade made its entry, apparently from the
CostCo parking lot, down Vintage Park Drive, and left on Tower Lane.
Visible were many V.A. Research shirts, numerours penguins, several
FreeBSD shirts, and Eric Raymond, in a Yoda robe.

Pausing briefly for a photo opportunity, and then crossing the street
in groups so as to not block traffic, the group enetered the parking
structure, and, apparently for best visual effect, headed up the ramp
to the fourth floor.

As things wound up tighter, the people who had a legitimate refund
claim were herded into a corner for a rehersal of the plan of action:
the people would go in in groups, no more than 10 at a time, take the
elevator to the 9th floor office, and politely and firmly request a
refund.

This worked for the first several groups; or "worked", inasmuch that
no refund was forthcoming, and the supplicants were not permitted to
enter the Microsoft offices, proper.

Contrary to Microsoft's claims of making personnel available to
answer questions, after the first several groups, Microsoft locked
off the elevator access to their floor.

Attempts were made to go to a floor higher or lower, and walk the
stairs, but the stairs were only for fire escape, and so those
attempting that route had to exit at street level, refundless.

Much was made of the failure to obtain refunds; you will undoubtedly
see and hear those in at least the first and second groups in
interviews published over the next few days.  Apparently, it has
already been on CNN (Hi, Mom!).  Maybe they won't cut out the FreeBSD
T-shirts out of the picture, or report it as a Linux event, like
Microsoft tried to spin it.  But I won't hold my breath.  8-(.


Other than Eric Raymond declaiming to a reporter "Where do we go next?
We're taking over the servers and the corporate IS.", and the poor
BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring
the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM?
Several CDROM people were there), all in all a good way to spend a
Monday.


					Terry Lambert
					te...@lambert.org
---
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or previous employers.

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From: Gregory Sutter <gsut...@pobox.com>
Subject: Windows Refund Day: Bay Area Report
Date: 1999/02/15
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FreeBSD folk,

This report is being written from the CoffeeNet, where we've all met
after the event in Foster City.  We didn't exactly "storm the Gates",
but both the Linux and FreeBSD communities turned out in force, 
accompanied by a couple of others (I saw a Sun and an SCO person).  
We got to the parking garage where the Microsoft "welcome table" was 
set up.  There were Microsoft-sponsored refreshments and a lot of 
press, including many major stations.

A few of us grabbed some press members with cameras and headed for
the main entrance.  We arrived and were greeted by a friendly 
Microsoft security guard, who told us that we were not allowed to go
up to the ninth floor (where the Microsoft offices are).  When the
press members began questioning her, she called another person, who
apparently called security, because they showed up long before any
Microsoft representative would talk to us. 

I was interviewed by several press members at this time, right from
the lobby of the Microsoft office.  Several others had arrived by this
time and we were becoming more forceful in our attempts to get to the
Microsoft Office.  People began getting on the elevators, only to find
that they had been locked down so that nobody could visit the ninth
floor.  those going to the tenth and using the stairs found that the
stair doors were locked from the inside as well, so nobody actually got
into the office.  (Later, they locked the elevators down completely.)

After twenty minutes or so of increased numbers of refund attempters, a
person claiming to be a Microsoft representative appeared.  While
several of us attempted to get some straight answers out of him, he
would only give us the typical Microsoft doubletalk.  He handed out a
sheet explaining Microsoft's statement on the refund policy[1] and would
only echo what was contained on that paper.  Although several tried, we
were unable to get him to admit even that this was Microsoft policy and
not just a random statement.  

Around this time, the rest of the group arrived and the press began
seriously interviewing everyone.  I saw Eric Raymond and many others
being questioned repeatedly on the purpose of the gathering and whether
Microsoft had issued a statement.  There was a _lot_ of mass media
presence at the event, and Microsoft's attempts to stonewall us at the
door didn't impress anyone.  I look forward to the news reports tonight
and tomorrow.

Toward the end, we all just stood in the courtyard and kibitzed before
finally breaking up around 1:45 to return to our regularly scheduled
activities (and a fine gathering at the CoffeeNet).  Gregory Sutter,
reporting for OSS News[2], signing off.

[1] For the full document, see <http://www.bafug.org/ms-letter.html>
after 20:00 PST today.

[2] and Daemon News.

Greg
-- 
Gregory S. Sutter                     My reality check just bounced.
mailto:gsut...@pobox.com
http://www.pobox.com/~gsutter/
PGP DSS public key 0x40AE3052

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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day: Watch out for Linux tactics 
Date: 1999/02/15
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> 
> I'm sure that the FreeBSD Project is not so fragile that it can be
> destroyed by a single vocal supporter.

Be that as it may, I'm glad we "lost" Eric Raymond.  He made a complete 
fool of himself today, as usual.

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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From: Mike Smith <m...@smith.net.au>
Subject: Re: FreeBSD at Windows Refund Day 
Date: 1999/02/15
Message-ID: <199902160335.TAA14355@dingo.cdrom.com>#1/1
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> ... and the poor
> BSD turnout relative to the Linux numbers (why didn't someone bring
> the FreeBSD flag from the trade show materials at Walnut Cree CDROM?
> Several CDROM people were there),

One (I) was there.  The only "flag" I'm aware of is the 8' booth 
banner, which would have been near impossible to carry or display.  

As it was, I think almost every marcher and media face went away with a 
FreeBSD 3.0 CDROM, stickers, promo lit, and as much patter as Josef and 
I could manage to ram at them.  I also managed to interfere with ESR 
several times in order to get himself to correct his phrasing (linux 
-> relevant term), and stickered him on camera.

> all in all a good way to spend a
> Monday.

Too cold for me, but certainly worthwhile.  Where were the rest of you 
lazy bastards?

-- 
\\  Sometimes you're ahead,       \\  Mike Smith
\\  sometimes you're behind.      \\  m...@smith.net.au
\\  The race is long, and in the  \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\  end it's only with yourself.  \\  msm...@cdrom.com



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From: Brett Glass <br...@lariat.org>
Subject: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux
Date: 1999/02/15
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Unfortunately, the very thing I expected to happen DID happen: the 
"Linux faithful" appear to have made sure that FreeBSD was not mentioned 
in news coverage of the event. The following articles mentioned Linux 
exclusively:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_279000/279926.stm
http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/zdtvnews/ (See February 15th early and late news reports)
http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/cte395.htm
http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/ap/docs/148082l.htm

This one happened to mention OS/2 (follow the link from the "news burst" to
the main article):

http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/filters/bursts/0,3422,2209061,00.html

This one actually mentioned FreeBSD, but only as one of a laundry list of
operating systems:

http://www.mercurycenter.com/svtech/news/breaking/reuters/docs/146260l.htm

In short, the FreeBSD users who joined the group were represented to the
press by the organizers as being Linux enthusiasts.

This is what I was concerned about. The FreeBSD supporters who attended were
taken for a ride.

--Brett Glass


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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <j...@zippy.cdrom.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux 
Date: 1999/02/16
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> No, I didn't "wimp out." I simply did not go to the Bay Area, because
> the event was run by a Linux group and was intended to exclude users
> of many alternative OSes.

I wish people would stop looking at this so one-dimensionally.  The
function of these events is not JUST to stoke the press, though that's
always nice, but to also meet some of your fellow geeks and plant the
seed that maybe Linux isn't the only game in town and there are others
who feel just as passionately about a different solution.

In effect, somebody needs to evangelize to the evangelists and that
appears to have happened here regardless of how the press chose to
spin the event.  Don't forget that most of these folks probably never
even heard of Linux 2 or 3 years ago and it's not like their minds are
completely closed to the idea of something else being free and
wonderful - I've personally converted many dozens of Linux users over
to FreeBSD, some of whom are now our loudest advocates.

Even more importantly, expecting the press corps to grow brains and
learn that there's more than one poster child to show off is just not
realistic.  Linux currently has the spotlight and the press is going
to continue to focus the spotlight in one place, at least for awhile,
because that's what the press does.  They're not TRYING to present a
balanced viewpoint here and rarely do, they're just trying to get some
of that Linux buzz on themselves and show that they're "hip" too in
covering it.  I've had press people tell me directly that they know
about FreeBSD but they have no desire to confuse their audience by
focusing on more than one free OS since their audience is still trying
to come to grips with the idea of any OS being free at all.  I don't
have to like this, but I also can't say I blame them.  One sound bite,
one poster child, one solid 15 minutes of fame at a time - that's how
the game works.

As an example, anyone here ever see People Magazine and their "sexiest
man alive" cover feature they like to run on the news stands every few
months?  I remember it was Mel Gibson just a few months ago, as I
stood there with my Ben and Jerry's slowly melting and waiting for
check-out, and just the other day it was now Leonard DiCaprio.  Mel
Gibson is, as far as I know, still alive and well but evidently he's
no longer sexy if we believe People Magazine, my point simply being
that the press is NOT about balanced coverage and expecting it to be
is, frankly, the height of stupidity.  The press is about hype, and
hype works best when it's concentrated.

Given time, I expect that people both inside and outside the press
will get tired of Linux since even the most aggressive press agent has
a hard time getting it to stay focused on anything (just ask the
artist formerly known as Prince) and it will be our 15 minutes on
stage, assuming that we don't screw it up.

- Jordan

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From: "Jordan K. Hubbard" <j...@zippy.cdrom.com>
Subject: Re: Windows Refund Day Press Reports: Linux, Linux, Linux 
Date: 1999/02/16
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> I was also disappointed that there wasn't a FreeBSD "Press Handler"
> there (that would be *you*, Jordan; I'm not nearly as good at
> "speechifyin'").

I think it's going to require additional speachfiers to really cover
these events adequately.  In my case, I was working away at home all
day on the damn 3.1 release while the rest of you were off having fun
taunting Microsoft. :-)

- Jordan


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