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From digitech@mmadb.no Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:45:39 +0200
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 06:45:39 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

DeCSS is a css decryptor which works with 'the Matrix',
something DoD's speed ripper doesn't.

Works on Win98 and Win2k.
Has not been tested on WinNT.

http://mmadb.no/hwplus

Enjoy ;)

- Jon

From derek@spider.com Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:49:25 +0100
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 19:49:25 +0100
From: Derek Fawcus derek@spider.com
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 06:45:39AM +0200, Jon Johansen wrote:
> DeCSS is a css decryptor which works with 'the Matrix',
> something DoD's speed ripper doesn't.

Regarding DeCSS:

I've just read through the source to DeCSS, compare CSSauth.cpp to
css-auth.c in my authentication package.

The authors have taken it almost verbatim - all they did was remove
my copyright header, one block comment, and rename the functions.
I don't mind them using the code - it's out there, but they could have
left my name on it.

Interesting this - I only released that file under GPL!

DF
-- 
Derek Fawcus derek@spider.com
Spider Software Ltd. +44 (0) 131 475 7034

From gromovd@yahoo.com Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 12:02:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dmitry Gromov gromovd@yahoo.com
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

Sorry to bother you, but were did you got it's source?

--- Derek Fawcus <derek@spider.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 06:45:39AM +0200, Jon
> Johansen wrote:
> > DeCSS is a css decryptor which works with 'the
> Matrix',
> > something DoD's speed ripper doesn't.
> 
> Regarding DeCSS:
> 
> I've just read through the source to DeCSS, 
> compare CSSauth.cpp to
> css-auth.c in my authentication package.
> 
> The authors have taken it almost verbatim - all
> they did was remove
> my copyright header, one block comment, and rename
> the functions.
> I don't mind them using the code - it's out there,
> but they could have
> left my name on it.
> 
> Interesting this - I only released that file under
> GPL!
> 
> DF
> -- 
> Derek Fawcus 
> derek@spider.com
> Spider Software Ltd. 
> +44 (0) 131 475 7034
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Livid-dev maillist - 
> Livid-dev@livid.on.openprojects.net
>
http://livid.on.openprojects.net/mailman/listinfo/livid-dev
> 


=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

From derek@spider.com Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:41:33 +0100
Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 20:41:33 +0100
From: Derek Fawcus derek@spider.com
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 12:02:04PM -0700, Dmitry Gromov wrote:
> Sorry to bother you, but were did you got it's source?

A little birdy told me.

DF
-- 
Derek Fawcus derek@spider.com
Spider Software Ltd. +44 (0) 131 475 7034

From kju@flummi.de Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:09:06 +0200
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 19:09:06 +0200
From: Michael Holzt kju@flummi.de
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 08:41:33PM +0100, Derek Fawcus wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 12:02:04PM -0700, Dmitry Gromov wrote:
> > Sorry to bother you, but were did you got it's source?
> A little birdy told me.

Two things: Was the linux css source in the meanwhile released?
I didn't saw any announce.

And second: Why don't you just publish their source too? I'm
interested in both, and as they use code which is under the
GPL at least the source of this part of the program must be
made available.

This is one thing, i hate on all this cracker groups: They program
some nice software or find something interesting out, but keep
the infos or the source for themselfes. I think this is kiddie-shit
helping nobody, and not very intelligent. They only take take take
from the open source movements like in this case, but never give
anything back. Shame on the DeCSS publishers!

From digitech@mmadb.no Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:21:53 +0200
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 20:21:53 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

> This is one thing, i hate on all this cracker groups: They program
> some nice software or find something interesting out, but keep
> the infos or the source for themselfes. I think this is kiddie-shit
> helping nobody, and not very intelligent. They only take take take
> from the open source movements like in this case, but never give
> anything back. Shame on the DeCSS publishers!

In case you didn't know, WE had already sent the css decryption source
to our connection in the linux community. So why don't you just shut up?
That means we have shared with the once who shared with us. You didn't
get anything; shouldn't be too hard to figure out why....


- Jon
http://mmadb.no/hwplus

From digitech@mmadb.no Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:06:06 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:06:06 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Holzt" <kju@flummi.de>
To: "Jon Johansen" <digitech@mmadb.no>
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 11:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released


> On Thu, Oct 07, 1999 at 11:36:03PM +0200, Jon Johansen wrote:
> > We used the linux css-auth code, but we decided to give something back,
> > and we did! So please don't come and talk to me about Open Source!

>This code is under the GPL, not written by Derek and therefore not
>under any special license, so in fact you are breaking the GPL and
>copyright.

He has put me on his filter list, so could someone please remail this to the
mailinglist,
and tell him to personally contact Derek Fawcus, because we have in fact
been using
HIS auth code, and we are using it under the license given by HIM to US.

Thank you very much for your igorance, Michael Holzt.

- Jon
http://mmadb.no/hwplus

From kju@flummi.de Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:49:10 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 00:49:10 +0200
From: Michael Holzt kju@flummi.de
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

On Fri, Oct 08, 1999 at 12:06:06AM +0200, Jon Johansen wrote:
> He has put me on his filter list, so could someone please remail this 
> to the mailinglist, and tell him to personally contact Derek Fawcus, 
[...]

This guy is driving me crazy.

Please don't feed this troll with replies. He should not wonder that 
i'm ignoring him after the rude emails he sent to me. 

How would you handle a guy who tells you, that he hates linux and 
would be happy if Linus Torvalds had never invented it (because
FreeBSD is better in every thing), but happily posts on this
linux-only mailinglist, ignores the GPL (is shit) and talks about that he has 
given his elite source code to the "linux community" if in fact he has 
only given it to *one* specific person. This person does not have
any clue about linux, gpl and open source movements and what he is
talking about - and this is enough reason to filter him. His mails are
only wasting my and your time.

Btw: He told me, that he has given CSS code to Derek only under
some special agreements. And he said: "We would never release the 
source to everyone. It has been released to Derek who knows how to 
handle it, and when to release which parts of it." 

Sorry, but after this i do not want to have this source anymore.
I don't want to be a slave begging to this elite persons to give
us the source or even only parts of it. And this probably means, 
that any released source would not be GPL. What a clear statement 
of arrogance! 

Anyone who would like to help me reverse-engineer CSS for a true
GPL'd code made without the help of this clowns? Please mail me.

From crow@debian.org Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:58:15 -0500
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 17:58:15 -0500
From: Stephen Crowley crow@debian.org
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

On Thu, Oct 07, 1999 at 08:21:53PM +0200, Jon Johansen wrote:
> > This is one thing, i hate on all this cracker groups: They program
> > some nice software or find something interesting out, but keep
> > the infos or the source for themselfes. I think this is kiddie-shit
> > helping nobody, and not very intelligent. They only take take take
> > from the open source movements like in this case, but never give
> > anything back. Shame on the DeCSS publishers!
> 
> In case you didn't know, WE had already sent the css decryption source
> to our connection in the linux community. So why don't you just shut up?
> That means we have shared with the once who shared with us. You didn't
> get anything; shouldn't be too hard to figure out why....

Well, that sounds good in theory.. but giving the code to one person isn't
very useful unless he agrees to give it to the rest of the community. But,
it's your code so you decide..

-- 
Stephen Crowley

From digitech@mmadb.no Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:43:43 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:43:43 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

> How would you handle a guy who tells you, that he hates linux and
> would be happy if Linus Torvalds had never invented it (because
> FreeBSD is better in every thing), but happily posts on this
> linux-only mailinglist, ignores the GPL (is shit) and talks about that he
has
> given his elite source code to the "linux community" if in fact he has
> only given it to *one* specific person. This person does not have
> any clue about linux, gpl and open source movements and what he is
> talking about - and this is enough reason to filter him. His mails are
> only wasting my and your time.

Well, the LIVID man wanted us to keep this off the mailinglist, but
you seem to want to keep this public. That's all right with me.

I never said I hated linux and I never said GPL was shit. I said
about linux, yes, it would not have mattered to me if it had not
been invented, because I believe FreeBSD is much better. Not
in all aspects, but those which linux is being so hyped for. I have
lots of knowledge about linux, gpl and open source movements,
and I do know what I am talking about.

> Btw: He told me, that he has given CSS code to Derek only under
> some special agreements. And he said: "We would never release the
> source to everyone. It has been released to Derek who knows how to
> handle it, and when to release which parts of it."

Yes, that is correct, _WE_ have given the source to Derek, but not
under any special agreements. That's how you understood it, and that's
wrong. He is free to do whatever he wants with it, and he has let me know
that he will be releasing it has _HE_sees fit!

> Sorry, but after this i do not want to have this source anymore.
> I don't want to be a slave begging to this elite persons to give
> us the source or even only parts of it. And this probably means,
> that any released source would not be GPL. What a clear statement
> of arrogance!

Off we go again, I never said I was elite! That's your assumption, again!

> Anyone who would like to help me reverse-engineer CSS for a true
> GPL'd code made without the help of this clowns? Please mail me.

Yeah, you better get someone to help you, because you obviously is a lazy
man who doesn't want to do anything himself. Not strange why you love GPL so
much, because then you can just take others code.

And please, for GOD's SAKE, why don't you mail Derek about this?
He will confirm that we have given him the code, and that he is free
to do whatever he wants with it. JESUS CHRIST! That's ONE mail
to get this all over with. Or are you afraid of the truth? That it will
make you look stupid? Well, I think it already has.

Have a continued nice evening everyone, and sorry for
making you all have to read this, but Michael obviously wanted you to.


- Jon Johansen
http://mmadb.no/hwplus

From digitech@mmadb.no Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:47:06 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 01:47:06 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released

Well, it's really nice to finally meet a linux man on this list,
which isn't as greedy as someone else on this list.
I'm not suprised that you exist, because I know there are
lots of linux people who are not greedy ;)

Well, our code has been sent to Derek, and he will
be releasing it in the near future (as _HE_ sees fit).
I hope you don't mail him begging him for the code,
because you will _ALL_ (even the greedy ones
who don't deserve it) get it soon.

- Jon
http://mmadb.no/hwplus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen Crowley" <crow@debian.org>
To: "Jon Johansen" <digitech@mmadb.no>
Cc: <livid-dev@livid.on.openprojects.net>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Livid-dev] DeCSS 1.1b has been released


> On Thu, Oct 07, 1999 at 08:21:53PM +0200, Jon Johansen wrote:
> > > This is one thing, i hate on all this cracker groups: They program
> > > some nice software or find something interesting out, but keep
> > > the infos or the source for themselfes. I think this is kiddie-shit
> > > helping nobody, and not very intelligent. They only take take take
> > > from the open source movements like in this case, but never give
> > > anything back. Shame on the DeCSS publishers!
> >
> > In case you didn't know, WE had already sent the css decryption source
> > to our connection in the linux community. So why don't you just shut up?
> > That means we have shared with the once who shared with us. You didn't
> > get anything; shouldn't be too hard to figure out why....
>
> Well, that sounds good in theory.. but giving the code to one person isn't
> very useful unless he agrees to give it to the rest of the community. But,
> it's your code so you decide..
>
> --
> Stephen Crowley
>
>

From digitech@mmadb.no Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:33:57 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:33:57 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] I am sorry...

I hereby apologize for my attitude in the posts I've sent to this mailing
list.
I know you've all waited a long time for this moment [when you'll be able
to watch decrypted dvds], so I can understand that you want it right away.
All I'm asking is for you to just wait a little bit longer, for Derek to
release
the source to you. That's all I'm asking, can't you just wait a little
longer?

Please note, though, that I am not apologizing for the way I've handled
matters.
I believe that we did the right thing when we passed on our source to Derek.

Thank you very much for listening (reading ;) and I hope you can forgive
my attitude, it will never happen again. It's just that when someone
tell's me I'm not telling the truth, without even checking with Derek, well,
I just got a little pissed off.

And I might have overdone it a bit when I said I didn't care if linux would
not have been invented. It's a great OS, but of course not in all ways,
but that's how it is with all operating systems. And that FreeBSD is
superior, well, I think FreeBSD is better, but superior might be taking
it a bit too far :P

Again, I am sorry.

PS: If I could just get some hollywood plus drivers for linux, I would
probably be setting up my own linux machine in the living room :P

- Jon
http://mmadb.no/hwplus

From digitech@mmadb.no Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:54:56 +0200
Date: Fri, 8 Oct 1999 02:54:56 +0200
From: Jon Johansen digitech@mmadb.no
Subject: [Livid-dev] I am sorry...

Sorry, that was supposed to be
[when you'll be able to watch _encrypted_ dvds] ;)

- Jon
http://mmadb.no/hwplus


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Johansen" <digitech@mmadb.no>
To: <livid-dev@livid.on.openprojects.net>
Sent: Friday, October 08, 1999 2:33 AM
Subject: [Livid-dev] I am sorry...


> I hereby apologize for my attitude in the posts I've sent to this mailing
> list.
> I know you've all waited a long time for this moment [when you'll be able
> to watch decrypted dvds], so I can understand that you want it right away.
> All I'm asking is for you to just wait a little bit longer, for Derek to
> release
> the source to you. That's all I'm asking, can't you just wait a little
> longer?
>
> Please note, though, that I am not apologizing for the way I've handled
> matters.
> I believe that we did the right thing when we passed on our source to
Derek.
>
> Thank you very much for listening (reading ;) and I hope you can forgive
> my attitude, it will never happen again. It's just that when someone
> tell's me I'm not telling the truth, without even checking with Derek,
well,
> I just got a little pissed off.
>
> And I might have overdone it a bit when I said I didn't care if linux
would
> not have been invented. It's a great OS, but of course not in all ways,
> but that's how it is with all operating systems. And that FreeBSD is
> superior, well, I think FreeBSD is better, but superior might be taking
> it a bit too far :P
>
> Again, I am sorry.
>
> PS: If I could just get some hollywood plus drivers for linux, I would
> probably be setting up my own linux machine in the living room :P
>
> - Jon
> http://mmadb.no/hwplus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Livid-dev maillist - Livid-dev@livid.on.openprojects.net
> http://livid.on.openprojects.net/mailman/listinfo/livid-dev
>
>

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