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club officers 
Stuart Jansen 
Sat, 02 Mar 2002 10:11:54 -0800 

Club officers are required to be full time students. I saw no
distinction between under-graduate and graduate.

Besides President, we should also have a Vice President, Treasurer,
Secretary, and Historian. Although we can get by without a couple, it
would be nice to have some other officers to back up the president. (I
plan on doing anything to help, even though I can't hold an office, and
I hope others will too.)

Michael Halcrow has been nominated. Are you eligible and do you accept
the nomination Michael? If no one else is willing, the meeting Tuesday
might just turn into a planning session for campus (followed by world)
conquest.

Remember: elections are Tues, Mar 5 at 7:00 in C285 ESC. Hope to see as
many as possible there.

-- 
Stuart Jansen                   /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                 \ /    No HTML/RTF in email
AIM: StuartMJansen               X     No Word docs in email
                                / \    Respect for open standards

Re: club officers 
Michael Halcrow 
Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:12:58 -0800 

Next semester is my last, and I only need one EE and two CS classes (and
no G.E.'s) totalling 10 (maybe 11) credits to finish the requirements for
my major, so I don't know that I will qualify as a full-time student. Thus
I will have to decline the nomination because I will not be elligible.

---------------------------------------------- | ------------------------
Michael Halcrow                                | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Research Assistant, Network Security Lab       | Dept. of Comp. Science
                                               | Brigham Young University
For a man to truly understand rejection, he    |
must first be ignored by a cat.                |
---------------------------------------------- | ------------------------

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Stuart Jansen wrote:

> Club officers are required to be full time students. I saw no
> distinction between under-graduate and graduate.
>
> Besides President, we should also have a Vice President, Treasurer,
> Secretary, and Historian. Although we can get by without a couple, it
> would be nice to have some other officers to back up the president. (I
> plan on doing anything to help, even though I can't hold an office, and
> I hope others will too.)
>
> Michael Halcrow has been nominated. Are you eligible and do you accept
> the nomination Michael? If no one else is willing, the meeting Tuesday
> might just turn into a planning session for campus (followed by world)
> conquest.
>
> Remember: elections are Tues, Mar 5 at 7:00 in C285 ESC. Hope to see as
> many as possible there.
>
> --
> Stuart Jansen                   /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]                 \ /    No HTML/RTF in email
> AIM: StuartMJansen               X     No Word docs in email
>                                 / \    Respect for open standards

Re: club officers 
Stuart Jansen 
Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:35:39 -0800 

 On Sat, 2002-03-02 at 12:31, Michael Halcrow wrote:
> Next semester is my last, and I only need one EE and two CS classes (and
> no G.E.'s) totalling 10 (maybe 11) credits to finish the requirements for
> my major, so I don't know that I will qualify as a full-time student. Thus
> I will have to decline the nomination because I will not be elligible.

Bummer. Anyone else? Don't be shy.

-- 
Stuart Jansen                   /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                 \ /    No HTML/RTF in email
AIM: StuartMJansen               X     No Word docs in email
                                / \    Respect for open standards

RE: club officers 
Arthur Moore 
Sat, 02 Mar 2002 20:27:05 -0800 

Well since we're all putting our names in the hat, Byron Clark and I
would also like to throw our names in. Byron and I would like to run for
vice-president and president, respectively. We've written up some of the
ideas that we have for the UUG. They are attached in PDF format.

Art Moore

UUG.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document

RE: club officers 
Frank Sorenson 
Sat, 02 Mar 2002 23:48:44 -0800 

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Arthur Moore wrote:
> Well since we're all putting our names in the hat, Byron Clark and I
> would also like to throw our names in. Byron and I would like to run for
> vice-president and president, respectively. We've written up some of the
> ideas that we have for the UUG. They are attached in PDF format.
> 
> Art Moore

I like these ideas you are presenting/re-proposing, and appreciate the use 
of an open standard for distribution of the document!

I also have a few comments regarding the ideas.  It would be great to have 
presentations for non/new users.  Every semester in CS, a lot of students 
take classes (like 240) where they're required to use the linux boxes, and 
the only thing they end up learning is how to run Kdevelop and that Linux 
isn't made by Micro$oft.  When they're done with the class, they never 
think of unix again.

Since these people are already required to use Linux, it would be great to 
somehow teach them about the power of unix, the cost benefits of Linux 
and other open source stuff, the Evils of Micro$oft, and the all-around 
coolness of penquins.  When people are already using Linux, if we can 
help them have a great experience, they might continue using unix.

We often have people come ask how they can set up their home machine like 
the open lab machines (in CS).  We pretty much run straight RedHat with a 
lot of extras (and a few packages left out).  I think gathering the extras 
is probably someone's biggest challenge when setting it up on their home 
machine, so I love the idea of the Helpful Applications CD.

Whatever distro is standardized on, I volunteer to provide some extra
space on our ftp server (ftp.cs.byu.edu) for iso's and packages.  As it
is, we've got several already, and I'm willing to put the iso's for just
about any distro onto the server.

<asbestos underwear>
Since we use RedHat in CS, I nominate RedHat for the standard distribution.  Many 
CS students will get their first experience with Linux through our labs, 
and helping them have a similar environment at home would help.
</asbestos underwear>

Of course, then again, any time my labs aren't utilized well enough, BYU
assumes we don't need the space and computers.

Every time this happens I have to fight the battle to show that 1) we have
different needs than AccessPoint users (so making our labs AccessPoint
isn't a good option), 2) we need all the space and computers we can get,
and 3) we need more of our computers to run Linux.

We could consider our own sort of distribution.  At one time RedHat was 
doing a program where they'd work with universities to create their own 
distro.  It might be fun to provie BYUnix :)  Then again, that might be 
quite a bit of work in such a changing field.

My systems guys are always burning CD's for people who come into the
office needing some distro, and it would be great to point them to a web
site specifically for people interested in Linux at BYU, complete with 
a list of linux-friendly BYU classes and where they can get help (my guys 
will help for donuts/pizza, and this list is great).

I think Linux is gaining some extra support here with the recent changes 
in OIT and with more people realizing that it's a great environment, and 
has really powerful tools, etc.  We've just got to help everyone 
understand how great it is, and that they should become involved.

As an example of how Linux is catching on (but that there's still some
confusion, I had a faculty member in another department ask me the other
day if the BYU license would allow them to install Linux on a computer
owned by a student.  Ummmmm.  Not a problem.

Frank
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Sorenson
CSR Computer Science Department
Brigham Young University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: club officers 
Michael Halcrow 
Sun, 03 Mar 2002 18:09:43 -0800 

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Frank Sorenson wrote:

> On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Arthur Moore wrote:
> > Well since we're all putting our names in the hat, Byron Clark and I
> > would also like to throw our names in. Byron and I would like to run for
> > vice-president and president, respectively. We've written up some of the
> > ideas that we have for the UUG. They are attached in PDF format.
> >
> > Art Moore
>
> I like these ideas you are presenting/re-proposing, and appreciate the use
> of an open standard for distribution of the document!

They definitely avoided shooting themselves in the foot on that one ;-)

> I also have a few comments regarding the ideas.  It would be great to have
> presentations for non/new users.  Every semester in CS, a lot of students
> take classes (like 240) where they're required to use the linux boxes, and
> the only thing they end up learning is how to run Kdevelop and that Linux
> isn't made by Micro$oft.  When they're done with the class, they never
> think of unix again.

Most of these types also tend to be in it for the money, or because they
couldn't think of anything else to major in. (That was a loaded statement,
wasn't it?)

Anyone majoring in CS who is afraid to try a different operating system
than his mother's needs to have his horizon expanded a bit.  Perhaps
convincing them to run Linux is what they need to help people develop a
real love for their major. I have personally helped a couple of CS majors
in my ward see the light. Since many of us have close contact with CS
majors who don't know about Linux, one-on-one evangelizing is a very
effective strategy.

> Since these people are already required to use Linux, it would be great to
> somehow teach them about the power of unix, the cost benefits of Linux
> and other open source stuff, the Evils of Micro$oft, and the all-around
> coolness of penquins.  When people are already using Linux, if we can
> help them have a great experience, they might continue using unix.
>
> We often have people come ask how they can set up their home machine like
> the open lab machines (in CS).  We pretty much run straight RedHat with a
> lot of extras (and a few packages left out).  I think gathering the extras
> is probably someone's biggest challenge when setting it up on their home
> machine, so I love the idea of the Helpful Applications CD.
>
> Whatever distro is standardized on, I volunteer to provide some extra
> space on our ftp server (ftp.cs.byu.edu) for iso's and packages.  As it
> is, we've got several already, and I'm willing to put the iso's for just
> about any distro onto the server.

Please, do this as soon as possible. Include as many distro's as you can.
This would save a lot of bandwidth on BYU's Internet pipe (provided we
advertise it's existence, and block connections from outside campus).

> <asbestos underwear>
> Since we use RedHat in CS, I nominate RedHat for the standard distribution.  Many
> CS students will get their first experience with Linux through our labs,
> and helping them have a similar environment at home would help.
> </asbestos underwear>
>
> Of course, then again, any time my labs aren't utilized well enough, BYU
> assumes we don't need the space and computers.
>
> Every time this happens I have to fight the battle to show that 1) we have
> different needs than AccessPoint users (so making our labs AccessPoint
> isn't a good option), 2) we need all the space and computers we can get,
> and 3) we need more of our computers to run Linux.

So it's you! One of my professors last semester (facetiously) told me that
the CS department had a full-time employee whose job was basically to fend
off OIT.

Seriously, I'd like to see how comfortable the OIT guys would be with the
network hacking done in CS460 on their systems. As far as your 3rd point,
I would go as far at OIT needs more of *their* computers to run Linux,
starting with the systems that are primarily used for Web access.

> We could consider our own sort of distribution.  At one time RedHat was
> doing a program where they'd work with universities to create their own
> distro.  It might be fun to provie BYUnix :)  Then again, that might be
> quite a bit of work in such a changing field.
>
> My systems guys are always burning CD's for people who come into the
> office needing some distro, and it would be great to point them to a web
> site specifically for people interested in Linux at BYU, complete with
> a list of linux-friendly BYU classes and where they can get help (my guys
> will help for donuts/pizza, and this list is great).
>
> I think Linux is gaining some extra support here with the recent changes
> in OIT and with more people realizing that it's a great environment, and
> has really powerful tools, etc.  We've just got to help everyone
> understand how great it is, and that they should become involved.

The root of our struggle lies in this maxim first stated by Eric Snider:
At BYU, "new" equals "dangerous."

> As an example of how Linux is catching on (but that there's still some
> confusion, I had a faculty member in another department ask me the other
> day if the BYU license would allow them to install Linux on a computer
> owned by a student.  Ummmmm.  Not a problem.
>
> Frank
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Frank Sorenson
> CSR Computer Science Department
> Brigham Young University
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Linux in CS - was RE: club officers 
Frank Sorenson 
Sun, 03 Mar 2002 23:18:39 -0800 

On Sun, 3 Mar 2002, Michael Halcrow wrote:
<snip>

> > Whatever distro is standardized on, I volunteer to provide some extra
> > space on our ftp server (ftp.cs.byu.edu) for iso's and packages.  As it
> > is, we've got several already, and I'm willing to put the iso's for just
> > about any distro onto the server.
> 
> Please, do this as soon as possible. Include as many distro's as you can.
> This would save a lot of bandwidth on BYU's Internet pipe (provided we
> advertise it's existence, and block connections from outside campus).

Sure.  I'd be happy to.  RedHat and Mandrake are there now.  I had FreeBSD 
there, but I think that was a version or two ago.  I'll mirror Debian when 
I get the time, and if someone wants something else, send me a link to 
either the iso's or an easy way to mirror it.

<snip>
> > Of course, then again, any time my labs aren't utilized well enough, BYU
> > assumes we don't need the space and computers.
> >
> > Every time this happens I have to fight the battle to show that 1) we have
> > different needs than AccessPoint users (so making our labs AccessPoint
> > isn't a good option), 2) we need all the space and computers we can get,
> > and 3) we need more of our computers to run Linux.
> 
> So it's you! One of my professors last semester (facetiously) told me that
> the CS department had a full-time employee whose job was basically to fend
> off OIT.

They were probably more referring to Kelly Flanagan.  He's spent quite a 
bit of time working with OIT people.  Now, since he's taken over for Eric 
Denna as CIO, he's fighting some of the same battles for the entire 
University with the Church.  Kelly's also a good friend and my advisor.

I run most of the CS servers, the Linux labs, the network, security, etc.  
I'm more of the guy who has to do the footwork to justify my existance,
the existance of the Linux labs, and the CS autonomy.  Whenever someone
questions the way we run things, I have to come up with some evidence that
we're utilizing our computers well, our network runs correctly, and make 
sure that our labs don't get too close to looking like AccessPoint.

If we had just an office suite and compiler, we'd be just like
AccessPoint, so we do what we can to be different and try to help the
faculty tie the curriculum to Linux a bit more.

We also try to keep good records of numbers of people logged in at the
machines (locally is the only one that counts).  Space Management comes
around every 15 minutes and counts the number of people in labs, and if
we're under-utilized, we need good evidence.

You can see the graphs at http://usage-stats.cs.byu.edu/ with
username/password both "uug".  We've actually been doing pretty well 
recently, with about 90% utilization nearly every day the last week.

> Seriously, I'd like to see how comfortable the OIT guys would be with the
> network hacking done in CS460 on their systems. As far as your 3rd point,
> I would go as far at OIT needs more of *their* computers to run Linux,
> starting with the systems that are primarily used for Web access.

No disagreement here.  We actually have some people in OIT convinced that
we have a class/lab where everyone writes viruses.  Helpful sometimes,
since it keeps us a bit more autonomous, but has caused a little extra
work too.

It would be great to get more of their computers running Linux.  Now 
that's another topic...

<snip>
> The root of our struggle lies in this maxim first stated by Eric Snider:
> At BYU, "new" equals "dangerous."

True.

Frank
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frank Sorenson
CSR Computer Science Department
Brigham Young University
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

excitement is in the air 
Stuart Jansen 
Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:20:49 -0800 

Just a friendly reminder that in less than 24 hours, at 7:00 Tue Mar 5
MST 2002 in C285 of the Eyring Science Center (ESC) we will be holding
elections of uug officers. There's been alot of interesting discussion
about increasing the visibility of Linux at BYU; now, come and show your
support by voting for or becoming a uug officer!

-- 
Stuart Jansen                   /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                 \ /    No HTML/RTF in email
AIM: StuartMJansen               X     No Word docs in email
                                / \    Respect for open standards

my notes from last night 

Stuart Jansen Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:05:27 -0800 

Election results: 
Art Moore is president 
Byron Clark is vp 
Jacob Albretsen has split personalities, although secretary is dominant 

Some links: 
<http://infinitybox.net>: Art's web site 
<http://gramps.sourceforge.net>: Geneology software, apparently can
handle LDS ordinance info 
<http://xine.sourceforge.net>: - a video player with support for DivX,
<http://freshrpms.net> being the recommended source 
<http://transgaming.com>: Windows games on Linux 
<http://happypenguin.com>: More Linux games 
<http://trustworthycomputing.com>: learn about windows flaws
<http://developer.sharpsec.com/>: Zaurus developer's web site

-- 
Stuart Jansen                   /"\    ASCII Ribbon Campaign
[EMAIL PROTECTED]                 \ /    No HTML/RTF in email
AIM: StuartMJansen               X     No Word docs in email
                                / \    Respect for open standards

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