Tech Insider					     Technology and Trends

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Tue Sep  9 00:12:24 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Mon Sep  8 23:12:33 2003
Subject: [uug] Help with the booth
Message-ID: <20030909051223.GC24210@medusa.byu.edu>

This Saturday is our Installfest for the semester. I reserved the room
for it today; it's 1086 JKHB, the room we've had in the past. I really
tried to get a room in the Wilk but they only let clubs schedule one day
in advance for rooms in the Wilk (I know, it's really stupid). We'll
need as many volunteers as possible so please make it if you can. :-)

We also have the booth in the Talmage reserved. There is a sign up page
that Michael G. set up at: http://uug.byu.edu/booth.php

Not many people have signed up yet but most of you know your schedules
better than you did when we first put up the sign up page. I'll make up
the fliers (I have the template) and the CS dept admins will take care
of burning the Cd's. If someone wants to make up a new SSS image that
would be great; if not we'll just make Knoppix Cd's to give out at the
booth and RH9 for the 'fest. Oh, and I'll give out a PDF of the flier so
you can put up posters in the buildings you're in.

Thanks for all of your help. We'll take over the world one box at a
time... :-)

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Tue Sep  9 13:08:15 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Tue Sep  9 12:08:18 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
Message-ID: <20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>

Right around the time I got involved with the UUG (about two years ago)
was the first installfest. I've been to all of them except one (when I
was out of town) and have enjoyed them a lot. We've installed hundreds
of machines and have helped a lot of people become involved in the Open
Source community. It's been a lot of work, but I think it's been worth
the effort. Thanks for all your help.

At the end of the summer I heard a lot of potential Linux users
requesting an installfest, and after talking to several UUG members it
seemed like there was a lot of interest. The booth and installfest are
ready to go, but I'm worried about the amount of people who have signed
up for the booth.  As of this morning, almost no one has signed up. 

I know we're all swamped with school and have a lot of stuff going on. I
also think that lots of the old-timers are starting to get tired. I'm
still interested in doing the installfest but I'm not sure if the
overall UUG membership still is. Should we keep on having the booths and
installfests?

I'm also concerned about the future of the club's activities. The
mailing list has gone on for years and I think it will be for a long
time. When we move on we can still stay involved; Matt, the founder of
the club, is still on the mailing list. However, the people who have
been attending meetings and activities are the older members that are
starting to move on. Many of our most active members have just left or
will be gone soon: Dave Smith, Art, Hans, Brailsford, Halcrow, Torrie
and others. Heck, Stuart might even graduate soon!

The point of this message is:
1) To see if there is enough interest for this semester's booth/installfest
2) To see if we should continue having booths/installfests
3) To think of how we can get younger members to get more involved in coming
to meetings/activities

I hope this message does not sound pessimistic. I just want to make sure
we have enough support from ALL of our members to have these events.

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From groups at anavidesign.com  Tue Sep  9 13:24:34 2003
From: groups at anavidesign.com (Wade Preston Shearer)
Date: Tue Sep  9 12:25:08 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
In-Reply-To: < 20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
References: < 20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
Message-ID: < DC87B7BC-E2F2-11D7-83F7-00306554660C@anavidesign.com>

> The point of this message is:
> 1) To see if there is enough interest for this semester's 
> booth/installfest

i support a booth, but don't have time to participate. i am interested 
in an installfest, but don't have time to participate.

> 2) To see if we should continue having booths/installfests

i think that we should... we have had great success in the past and 
helped many people. although i cannot participate physically, i do 
believe that there are other ways that i can support the group.

> 3) To think of how we can get younger members to get more involved in 
> coming
> to meetings/activities

i have only been to one meeting because, unfortunately, i have usually 
had classes on thursday nights. other times it has not been practical 
to drive from lehi (where i live) to campus just for a meeting. i would 
recommend making sure that we have all of the virtual attendance 
options available that we can (ie: chat, streaming video/audio, etc).

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Tue Sep  9 14:06:28 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Tue Sep  9 13:06:41 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
In-Reply-To: <DC87B7BC-E2F2-11D7-83F7-00306554660C@anavidesign.com>
References: <20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
	<DC87B7BC-E2F2-11D7-83F7-00306554660C@anavidesign.com>
Message-ID: <20030909190627.GB23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>

> i support a booth, but don't have time to participate. i am interested 
> in an installfest, but don't have time to participate.

This is the problem that most people have.

> i think that we should... we have had great success in the past and 
> helped many people. although i cannot participate physically, i do 
> believe that there are other ways that i can support the group.

I think the point I'm trying to get at is how do we get people to
participate physically. The mailing list is doing great (we're actually
down in flame wars for the last few months) but trying to do things
outside of the list is difficult. If we have 50 people show up to install
and only 4 show up to help out, that could be a problem. :-)

> to drive from lehi (where i live) to campus just for a meeting. i would 
> recommend making sure that we have all of the virtual attendance 
> options available that we can (ie: chat, streaming video/audio, etc).

We did this (video/audio streams) for a while but it never worked out as
well as we had planned.  Maybe we can try this again in the future...

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From mike at halcrow.us  Tue Sep  9 16:18:38 2003
From: mike at halcrow.us (Michael Halcrow)
Date: Tue Sep  9 14:19:57 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
In-Reply-To: <20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
References: <20030909180815.GA23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
Message-ID: <20030909201838.GA20729@halcrow.us>

Hmmm.  Maybe people are having a hard time getting motivated about
this whole ``UNIX'' thing.  Maybe if we changed the club name to
something that people might actually recognize; you know, something
that is regularly in the mainstream press, something new and cool,
something for which large corporations are spending millions of
dollars in advertising revenues on national television, like ... uh,
well, Linux.

I *guarantee* you that if the Daily Universe were to run a story on
the newly reorganized ``BYU Linux Users Group'' that it would get a
nice infusion of motivated members, to do stuff like booths and
install fests.  They run stories on new groups on campus all the time
(anyone remember the 100% Modest Belly Dancing Club?)

UNIX used to be about community, back in the late 70's and early
80's.  ``Proprietarization'' of UNIX did much to kill that community
spirit as various organization closed up all the code and
commercialized the heck out of it.  Richard Stallman recognized the
root of the problem and attacked it by forming the Free Software
Foundation in an attempt to preserve that community.  He made the GPL
and doggedly stuck to his values.  Eventually, the Linux kernel came
along and, together with the GNU (GNU is Not UNIX) tools, this hacker
community sprang back to life in a way that very few people
anticipated (I admit that I'm glazing over the whole BSD thing too,
which deserves better mention than I feel I can give it, but GNU is
admittedly bigger and more influential today).

UNIX is now a proprietary relic of an earth-scorched past.  The
worldwide community has since regrouped about the license and the
software that is amenable to cooporation, sharing, and mutual
benefit.  The hacker ethic lives on in GNU, BSD, and Linux.  It
doesn't make much sense any more to have a ``UNIX Users Group'';
that's almost an oxymoron.

I'm not around any more, so I suppose I can't say a lot about it; I
can only offer my opinion on the matter (again).  If the group prefers
to keep the image of an esoteric group of old fogey computer nerds
doing its own thing, then by all means don't bother changing the name.
Just don't be surprised when you find difficulty attracting new
blood.

Mike

P.S. - These comments are my own and not my employer's.

On Tue, Sep 09, 2003 at 12:08:15PM -0600, Evan McNabb wrote:
<lamantations about the old guys moving on and the new guys dragging
their feet>

-- 
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
Michael Halcrow                             | mike@halcrow.us     
Developer, IBM Linux Technology Center      |                      
                                            |
What's another word for synonym?            |
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
GnuPG Keyprint:  05B5 08A8 713A 64C1 D35D  2371 2D3C FDDA 3EB6 601D

From ross at agilestudios.com  Tue Sep  9 16:22:01 2003
From: ross at agilestudios.com (Ross Werner)
Date: Tue Sep  9 15:17:18 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
In-Reply-To: <20030909190627.GB23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309091455400.4596-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>

My two cents ...

Some guy wrote:
> I think the point I'm trying to get at is how do we get people to
> participate physically. The mailing list is doing great (we're actually
> down in flame wars for the last few months) but trying to do things
> outside of the list is difficult. If we have 50 people show up to install
> and only 4 show up to help out, that could be a problem. :-)

A couple of questions:

What is the "point" of the UUG, in your (and in others') eyes? For
example, to me, it's been a bunch of people who enjoy playing around with
Unix-based systems [the fact that I'd like to include MacOS X/BSD/etc.
users in the group is I think the biggest argument against changing the
group's name, but I guess I (fortunately) missed /that/ flamefest] who
have meetings and talk about cool, nerdy unix-y stuff and occasionally we
have fun activities, be it a barbecue or an install-fest or whatever.
Historically I was never really a "core" member, but I came to a lot of
meetings when I could, and when I had a car I went to other off-campus
activities as well.

That leads me to the next question: are we having a "problem" with any of
these goals? Are not very many people coming to meetings? Are not very
many people coming to the "fun" activities? Are not many people wanting to
help out with an install-fest booth? I've only been back a couple of
weeks, but it seems the only serious problem is with the last one, and
that seems to be because everybody is busy with school/work (that's my
only excuse, and I'm contemplating skipping school/work to help out for an
hour if things get serious enough).

Finally, /is/ it a "bad" thing if we have 50 people show up to the
install-fest and only 4 UUG members there to help out? And, seriously,
judging from the past (I can't remember if I ever actually went to an
install-fest, so I don't know) is this a real danger? It seems to me we'd
be in more danger of a dozen UUG member showing up and there being little
for them to do.

After all, most installs are two minutes of configuration, a half hour of
waiting, and a few more minutes of trouble-shooting. We don't need an army
of enthusiastic penguin-suit-wearers to coerce the masses into joining the
Open Source Cult, if you get my meaning. I feel that if we have two or
three UUG members interested in helping, and a dozen or two people
interested in getting Linux installed on their computers, then that's not
a terrible thing. At worst it means there's not very much interest at the
moment, and at best it means everybody's currently busy with other things.


Summary
-------

I guess what I'm trying to say is:

1, there may be a lot of interest in the booth/installfest, but everyone's
too busy, and

2, even if it _is_ the case that there's not a lot of interest in the
booth, I don't see that correlating with "the future of club
meetings/activities" (unless you've been seeing a definite decline which I
have totally missed out on since I haven't been around).

And finally,

3, even if there is minimal interest in/people with time available for the
installfest, I see no reason we can't do a scaled-down version with only a
few people.


So, in answer to your questions:

>To see if there is enough interest for this semester's booth/installfest

I think it's an issue of "how much interest is there?" not an issue of "if
we don't have lots of people there then it's not worth doing", unless, of
course, you feel that it isn't, which is another discussion altogether.

>To see if we should continue having booths/installfests

See above. Unless I'm missing something very vital about
booths/installfests, if there's even minimal interest it seems worth it to
me to have one.

>To think of how we can get younger members to get more involved in
>coming to meetings/activities

Again, is this actually a problem? It doesn't, at any rate, seem
correlated to the installfest issue.


Wow, my 0.02USD turned out to be a full ten cent rant. Sorry about that,
folks.

  ~ ross

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Tue Sep  9 17:29:37 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Tue Sep  9 16:29:40 2003
Subject: [uug] UUG and Installfests
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309091455400.4596-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
References: <20030909190627.GB23526@medusa.nabbernet.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0309091455400.4596-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
Message-ID: <20030909222936.GA10556@medusa.nabbernet.net>

> What is the "point" of the UUG, in your (and in others') eyes? For
> example, to me, it's been a bunch of people who enjoy playing around with
> Unix-based systems [the fact that I'd like to include MacOS X/BSD/etc.
> users in the group is I think the biggest argument against changing the
> group's name, but I guess I (fortunately) missed /that/ flamefest] who
> have meetings and talk about cool, nerdy unix-y stuff and occasionally we
> have fun activities, be it a barbecue or an install-fest or whatever.
> Historically I was never really a "core" member, but I came to a lot of
> meetings when I could, and when I had a car I went to other off-campus
> activities as well.

Our ideas are the same about what the UUG should be. 

> That leads me to the next question: are we having a "problem" with any of
> these goals? Are not very many people coming to meetings? 

There are usually ~20 +/- 5 people per meeting. Considering there are hundreds
of people on the list this is pretty low. If no one shows up, it's not the 
end of the world. I just don't want to spend a lot of time planning stuff
that not a lot of people are interested in. 

> Are not very
> many people coming to the "fun" activities? Are not many people wanting to
> help out with an install-fest booth? 

Almost no one has signed up for the booth. 

> I've only been back a couple of
> weeks, but it seems the only serious problem is with the last one, and
> that seems to be because everybody is busy with school/work (that's my
> only excuse, and I'm contemplating skipping school/work to help out for an
> hour if things get serious enough).

I'm in the same boat as everyone else so I know how busy people can get. Usually
by now we have 2-3 times as many people signed up for the booth as we do right
now. This is the least response we've gotten since we've had a booth.
 
> Finally, /is/ it a "bad" thing if we have 50 people show up to the
> install-fest and only 4 UUG members there to help out? And, seriously,
> judging from the past (I can't remember if I ever actually went to an
> install-fest, so I don't know) is this a real danger? It seems to me we'd
> be in more danger of a dozen UUG member showing up and there being little
> for them to do.
> 
> After all, most installs are two minutes of configuration, a half hour of
> waiting, and a few more minutes of trouble-shooting. We don't need an army
> of enthusiastic penguin-suit-wearers to coerce the masses into joining the
> Open Source Cult, if you get my meaning. I feel that if we have two or
> three UUG members interested in helping, and a dozen or two people
> interested in getting Linux installed on their computers, then that's not
> a terrible thing. At worst it means there's not very much interest at the
> moment, and at best it means everybody's currently busy with other things.

I don't think you've ever been to an installfest. If you've ever done an
installfest you know that if you are helping more than 3 or 4 people at
a time things are total chaos. I remember Byron, the smartest person I
know, going crazy trying to help 4-5 people. People have strange
hardware, installations crash, they have questions, etc. If we had 10-15
people at a normal sized installfest things would go well. 

> I guess what I'm trying to say is:
> 
> 1, there may be a lot of interest in the booth/installfest, but everyone's
> too busy, and
> 
> 2, even if it _is_ the case that there's not a lot of interest in the
> booth, I don't see that correlating with "the future of club
> meetings/activities" (unless you've been seeing a definite decline which I
> have totally missed out on since I haven't been around).

Should I waste my time planning another installfest if no one wants to
do it? I've already spent several hours getting things ready and
reserving rooms, etc. If we cancel this one because people are too busy,
that's fine with me. I just want to know what I should do. 

> And finally,
> 
> 3, even if there is minimal interest in/people with time available for the
> installfest, I see no reason we can't do a scaled-down version with only a
> few people.

In the past we've just got up there and handed out fliers. We don't know how
many people will come; sometimes a lot come, other times just a few. We just
try to have as many people come as possible to help out. 

Here is the overall purpose of my questions:

I want to plan activities that people in the club want. In the past people 
have liked doing installfests and the booth. If people are not interested 
any more, we'll stop doing it. I also want to make sure the club doesn't 
die off when people start leaving; I'm just hoping to get more core members.

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Wed Sep 10 20:46:26 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Wed Sep 10 19:45:51 2003
Subject: [uug] Installfest fliers
Message-ID: <20030911014626.GE2749@medusa.nabbernet.net>

If you're interested in posting a flier to the installfest, here are the 
URLs:

http://students.cs.byu.edu/~emcnabb/installfest.pdf
http://students.cs.byu.edu/~emcnabb/installfest.sxw

We'll have extra copies in the booth so feel free to stop by and pick
some up.

In the last day or two we've had a lot of people sign up for the booth
and installfest. Thanks for the good response. I hope I didn't sound
harsh in my last few messages; I was just a little concerned /
stressed... :-) Things are looking good.

Here are the links one more time for signing up to help at the
booths/installfest:

http://uug.byu.edu/booth.php
http://uug.byu.edu/signup.php

Thanks again!

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From mike at halcrow.us  Wed Sep 10 21:55:54 2003
From: mike at halcrow.us (Michael Halcrow)
Date: Wed Sep 10 19:57:04 2003
Subject: [uug] Installfest fliers
In-Reply-To: <20030911014626.GE2749@medusa.nabbernet.net>
References: <20030911014626.GE2749@medusa.nabbernet.net>
Message-ID: <20030911015554.GA27828@halcrow.us>

Looks nice!  My main recommendation would be in regards to this:

``Want to try Linux but scared you'll screw up your computer?''

There are a couple of reasons why I would consider changing this.  It
juxtaposes ``Linux'' with ``screw up your computer.''  It gets people
who are unfamiliar with Linux to start equating Linux with fear and
doubt, when that is not really necessary.  Also, there is quite a
large number of BYU students who find the phrase ``to screw up''
offensive, because of its connotation in the Gentile world.

I would also include the word ``Free'' in there somewhere.

The Tux bitmap is horrific.  Use the penguin.eps file instead:

http://adele.gerwinski.de/~anja/gnuart/penguin/

There is another one that is black-and-white; look around for it.

Last, but not least... it's *GNU*/Linux, dangit!!  :-)

Keep up the good work,
Mike

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 07:46:26PM -0600, Evan McNabb wrote:
> If you're interested in posting a flier to the installfest, here are the 
> URLs:
> 
> http://students.cs.byu.edu/~emcnabb/installfest.pdf
> http://students.cs.byu.edu/~emcnabb/installfest.sxw
> 
> We'll have extra copies in the booth so feel free to stop by and pick
> some up.
> 
> In the last day or two we've had a lot of people sign up for the booth
> and installfest. Thanks for the good response. I hope I didn't sound
> harsh in my last few messages; I was just a little concerned /
> stressed... :-) Things are looking good.
> 
> Here are the links one more time for signing up to help at the
> booths/installfest:
> 
> http://uug.byu.edu/booth.php
> http://uug.byu.edu/signup.php
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> -Evan
> 
> -- 
> /********************************************************************\
>        Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
> 		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
>              System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
>  GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
> \********************************************************************/



> ____________________
> BYU Unix Users Group 
> http://uug.byu.edu/ 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list

-- 
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
Michael Halcrow                             | mike@halcrow.us     
Developer, IBM Linux Technology Center      |                      
                                            |
What's another word for synonym?            |
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
GnuPG Keyprint:  05B5 08A8 713A 64C1 D35D  2371 2D3C FDDA 3EB6 601D

From mike at halcrow.us  Wed Sep 10 23:18:03 2003
From: mike at halcrow.us (Michael Halcrow)
Date: Wed Sep 10 21:19:11 2003
Subject: [uug] Linux Advocacy Fliers/Posters
Message-ID: < 20030911031803.GA28472@halcrow.us>

Okay, so I created a couple that are along the lines of what I was
thinking about when I wrote my comments about Linux advocacy on campus
a short time back:

http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/

Specifically:
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/pirate.pdf
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/pirate.sxw
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/we_copy_software.pdf
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/we_copy_software.sxd

Feel free to tweak them to your liking.  Don't be afraid to add a
little creativity and shock value into your advocacy efforts.  :-)

Mike

P.S. - This is me talking and not my employer. (this blurb is getting
annoying; maybe I'll add it to my .sig...)

-- 
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
Michael Halcrow                             | mike@halcrow.us     
Developer, IBM Linux Technology Center      |                      
                                            |
What's another word for synonym?            |
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
GnuPG Keyprint:  05B5 08A8 713A 64C1 D35D  2371 2D3C FDDA 3EB6 601D

From bryan.murdock at hp.com  Wed Sep 10 22:26:32 2003
From: bryan.murdock at hp.com (Bryan Murdock)
Date: Wed Sep 10 22:27:09 2003
Subject: [uug] Linux Advocacy Fliers/Posters
In-Reply-To: <20030911031803.GA28472@halcrow.us>
References: <20030911031803.GA28472@halcrow.us>
Message-ID: <1063254392.26609.7.camel@x1-6-00-00-c5-0c-1b-25>

Now those are cool fliers!  I vote you hand those out.

Bryan

P.S.  Do your IBM lawyers insist you have it there or something :) ? 
You could just leave out that you work for IBM in your sig, you aren't
even using an IBM email address.  Maybe that's just security by
obscurity though...

On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 20:18, Michael Halcrow wrote:

Okay, so I created a couple that are along the lines of what I was
thinking about when I wrote my comments about Linux advocacy on campus
a short time back:

http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/

Specifically:
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/pirate.pdf
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/pirate.sxw
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/we_copy_software.pdf
http://www.halcrow.us/linux/advocacy/campus/we_copy_software.sxd

Feel free to tweak them to your liking.  Don't be afraid to add a
little creativity and shock value into your advocacy efforts.  :-)

Mike

P.S. - This is me talking and not my employer. (this blurb is getting
annoying; maybe I'll add it to my .sig...)

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Thu Sep 11 19:12:26 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Thu Sep 11 18:12:19 2003
Subject: [uug] First day at the booth
Message-ID: <20030912001226.GB3478@medusa.nabbernet.net>

I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work today. We had a lot of
help from club members and we gave out about 250-300 fliers (along with
Knoppix and SSS CD's). At one point we had the most members I've ever
seen at a booth helping out.

It sounds like we're going to have a lot of people come to the
installfest.  Many people said they definitely would be there and we
had a lot of people even volunteer to come and help out. I talked to 5 -
10 people who are "hard core" Linux users that never knew about the club
until today (mostly new students at BYU). We're getting some new members
out of this too. :-)

At one point when things were slow (during class) I went over to the
Crabtree building and talked to several pro-linux faculty. I gave them
some fliers and invited them to tell their classes; they were interested
in possibly having us teach an intro course to Linux sometime.

Overall things went well and we've had a good response. I hope to see
you all tomorrow, even if it's only stopping by to say hi. :-)

-Evan

P.S. If you can help out on Saturday please sign up:
http://uug.byu.edu/signup.php

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Thu Sep 11 19:12:26 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Thu Sep 11 18:12:19 2003
Subject: [uug] First day at the booth
Message-ID: <20030912001226.GB3478@medusa.nabbernet.net>

I'd like to thank everyone for their hard work today. We had a lot of
help from club members and we gave out about 250-300 fliers (along with
Knoppix and SSS CD's). At one point we had the most members I've ever
seen at a booth helping out.

It sounds like we're going to have a lot of people come to the
installfest.  Many people said they definitely would be there and we
had a lot of people even volunteer to come and help out. I talked to 5 -
10 people who are "hard core" Linux users that never knew about the club
until today (mostly new students at BYU). We're getting some new members
out of this too. :-)

At one point when things were slow (during class) I went over to the
Crabtree building and talked to several pro-linux faculty. I gave them
some fliers and invited them to tell their classes; they were interested
in possibly having us teach an intro course to Linux sometime.

Overall things went well and we've had a good response. I hope to see
you all tomorrow, even if it's only stopping by to say hi. :-)

-Evan

P.S. If you can help out on Saturday please sign up:
http://uug.byu.edu/signup.php

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

From ross at agilestudios.com  Sun Sep 14 00:16:39 2003
From: ross at agilestudios.com (Ross Werner)
Date: Sat Sep 13 23:11:35 2003
Subject: [uug] Installfest review
In-Reply-To: <20030914035440.GA3156@medusa.nabbernet.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309132233510.24188-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>

Well, my eyes have certainly been opened as to what an installfest is all
about!

First of all, for those of you who didn't make it (or who have never been
to one at all), you've certainly missed something. I was only able to be
there for less than two hours (ended up spending the rest of the day doing
homework--still haven't finished), but it was amazing. People and
computers everywhere! I really underestimated how many people are actually
interested in Linux. I guess, especially with its popularization in the CS
labs, it's really catching on. Things have certainly been moving fast the
past two years!

I was also amazed to see how much I could help just by being there for
that short time. I was astounded at how many people expressed their
heartfelt thanks to me for helping them with this problem or that, or
simply for telling them the steps they needed to take to install. I felt I
hardly had time to do anything at all, and yet it seemed like what I did
made such a big difference. I highly encourage all those who haven't had
the experience to go and help out. Even if your Linux powerz aren't at
"super-guru" level, there's still lots for you to do.


And yes, I do have suggestions and comments for future installfests!
(Don't I always have something to say?)

1) I honestly think we should have them more often if the turnout is that
great! I'm not sure how often we're having them now, but I talked to some
people who had come last year and were just there for an "upgrade" and to
fix a few simple problems. Are there other technical/bureaucratic
limitations to having them more often, or is it just a lot of work on you,
Evan? [P.S. Kudos to Evan for all the work he put into the event. It was
very well organized, well planned, and he put a lot of effort in getting
people--both helpers and helpees--to come out and make the event a
success.]

2) Pre-install instructions. On our flyers, we should have some "fine
print" that lists instructions of what to do, i.e.:

 * Bring your computer case, mouse, and keyboard. We will have a few
   monitors available if you're unable to bring yours.
 * If you want to be able to use both Windows and Linux, defragment your
   hard drive the night before so we can resize the partition. (If you
   already have another partition or another hard drive we can erase and
   put Linux on, you don't need to do this.)
 * Back up all important data (burn it to a CD or copy it to a different
   computer) just in case.


The important part of the above I think is the "DEFRAG BEFORE YOU COME"
message. There were several people there whose install time could have
been one-tenth the time if they had defragged the night before. I thought
we had put out some message like this, but the people I talked to said
they had heard no such thing.


3) Even though it was a /Linux/ install-fest, I think some of those
Windows-software SSS CDs would have been cool to have around.


4) Aren't there more free alternatives to Partition Magic out there? Back
as far as four years ago or something I used Mandrake's installer to
resize partitions and that worked beautifully. I've heard about parted as
well. Wouldn't those be useful to have on-hand?


5) Other things to pass out to people who come. I'm thinking basically in
two varieties--one would be an "install checklist" sort of thing, in case
we're short of hands we can just give them the sheet and let them get
started right away. Basically the checklist would go like this:

  - find a place to plug in your computer [should be a lot easier if we
can find a better room next time]
  - if you want to keep your Windows partition, defrag if you haven't
already
  - set up your partitions with Partition Magic if necessary
  - begin install, etc. etc. etc.

Most people could get at least the first two done by themselves with
little or no assistance. Then a Helper can walk them through the rest, and
if the person happens to know enough to install mostly by themselves with
the aid of the sheet, more power to them.

The second sheet to pass out could be more of a "Introduction to Linux"
tutorial, with (of course) instructions on how to subscribe to the newbies
list, as well as some other useful information.


6) Even more bizarre ideas.

Some sort of "marking" for the helpers, so that people who are struggling
can see who they need to seek out, and so that other helpers can easily
see who's being helped and who isn't.

Some sort of "marking" for the computers themselves to see at a glance
what stage they're in. For example, I saw one guy who couldn't get his
wireless ethernet card to work, and so had a piece of paper stuck to his
notebook that said, "NEED WIRELESS HELP!" or something like that. I'm
envisioning something along those lines for everyone, so you can look up
and at a glance see a few "DEFRAGGING" signs, a few "USING PARTITION
MAGIC" signs, a few "NEED PARTITION MAGIC" signs, a few "INSTALLING FILES"
signs, and a few "PROBLEM: NEED HELP" signs. I don't know, though--that
might end up being more complex and more trouble than it's worth. At the
very least, I think, though, there should be something for problems which
hint to the general nature of the problem, so anybody can look around and
see if there are issues which need to be attended to.



Ok, well that was fun! Hope you all enjoyed m rant, and even though I'm
sure not all of my comments were very useful, hopefully there will be one
or two gems in all that that can be taken out, polished, and perhaps used
to make a future installfest even better.

Another big thanks to all those who participated. I was, indeed, very
impressed.

  ~ ross

From mike at halcrow.us  Sun Sep 14 08:12:33 2003
From: mike at halcrow.us (Michael Halcrow)
Date: Sun Sep 14 06:13:48 2003
Subject: [uug] Installfest review
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309132233510.24188-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
References: <20030914035440.GA3156@medusa.nabbernet.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0309132233510.24188-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
Message-ID: <20030914121233.GA11601@halcrow.us>

Good points.  I wasn't there, but I've done them many times, and I'm
still doing install fests here in Austin, so I think I can add some
sensible comments.

In answer to the question about Partition Magic: ntfsresize works
great.  I believe the newest Knoppix CD has a QT app called
``QTParted'', which is supposed to be a Partition Magic clone:

http://qtparted.sourceforge.net/

Of course, the installee should be made aware of the fact that his
data is in peril, no matter what program does the resizing.  I
personally would make him sign a waiver/disclaimer form before I
started work on a computer.  I don't want someone to do an ``rm -rf
.*'' and then turn around and claim that I must have blown away his
irreplaceable files while installing GNU/Linux.  Believe me, just give
it some time... it'll happen to someone.  :-)

Fliers passed out advertising the event should have a notice to defrag
and to make a backup.  If the fliers this time did not have these
items on them, then shame, shame, shame (er, I think one of my fliers
didn't mention this, actually - but I told you to tweak it :-)!  We
have discussed this *many* times in the past on this list.  Did we
have a signup sheet at the booth with e-mail addresses?  A
``pre-installfest'' e-mail should be sent to anyone who signs up.
Priority should be given to those who signed up at the booth to
reserve a spot.  Those who just show up without a reservation should
be put on a waiting queue for a spot to open up, but anyone who signed
up for a time beforehand (and defrag'ed) should be placed at the front
of the queue.

The SSS CD's should definitely be there, to help people delete
unlicensed software from their systems and replace it with Free
Software.  That's part of what the group does.

All this will allow the group to service more people in less time.  It
will also reduce the risk of data corruption or loss.

Mike

On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 11:16:39PM -0600, Ross Werner wrote:
> Well, my eyes have certainly been opened as to what an installfest is all
> about!
> 
> First of all, for those of you who didn't make it (or who have never been
> to one at all), you've certainly missed something. I was only able to be
> there for less than two hours (ended up spending the rest of the day doing
> homework--still haven't finished), but it was amazing. People and
> computers everywhere! I really underestimated how many people are actually
> interested in Linux. I guess, especially with its popularization in the CS
> labs, it's really catching on. Things have certainly been moving fast the
> past two years!
> 
> I was also amazed to see how much I could help just by being there for
> that short time. I was astounded at how many people expressed their
> heartfelt thanks to me for helping them with this problem or that, or
> simply for telling them the steps they needed to take to install. I felt I
> hardly had time to do anything at all, and yet it seemed like what I did
> made such a big difference. I highly encourage all those who haven't had
> the experience to go and help out. Even if your Linux powerz aren't at
> "super-guru" level, there's still lots for you to do.
> 
> 
> And yes, I do have suggestions and comments for future installfests!
> (Don't I always have something to say?)
> 
> 1) I honestly think we should have them more often if the turnout is that
> great! I'm not sure how often we're having them now, but I talked to some
> people who had come last year and were just there for an "upgrade" and to
> fix a few simple problems. Are there other technical/bureaucratic
> limitations to having them more often, or is it just a lot of work on you,
> Evan? [P.S. Kudos to Evan for all the work he put into the event. It was
> very well organized, well planned, and he put a lot of effort in getting
> people--both helpers and helpees--to come out and make the event a
> success.]
> 
> 2) Pre-install instructions. On our flyers, we should have some "fine
> print" that lists instructions of what to do, i.e.:
> 
>  * Bring your computer case, mouse, and keyboard. We will have a few
>    monitors available if you're unable to bring yours.
>  * If you want to be able to use both Windows and Linux, defragment your
>    hard drive the night before so we can resize the partition. (If you
>    already have another partition or another hard drive we can erase and
>    put Linux on, you don't need to do this.)
>  * Back up all important data (burn it to a CD or copy it to a different
>    computer) just in case.
> 
> 
> The important part of the above I think is the "DEFRAG BEFORE YOU COME"
> message. There were several people there whose install time could have
> been one-tenth the time if they had defragged the night before. I thought
> we had put out some message like this, but the people I talked to said
> they had heard no such thing.
> 
> 
> 3) Even though it was a /Linux/ install-fest, I think some of those
> Windows-software SSS CDs would have been cool to have around.
> 
> 
> 4) Aren't there more free alternatives to Partition Magic out there? Back
> as far as four years ago or something I used Mandrake's installer to
> resize partitions and that worked beautifully. I've heard about parted as
> well. Wouldn't those be useful to have on-hand?
> 
> 
> 5) Other things to pass out to people who come. I'm thinking basically in
> two varieties--one would be an "install checklist" sort of thing, in case
> we're short of hands we can just give them the sheet and let them get
> started right away. Basically the checklist would go like this:
> 
>   - find a place to plug in your computer [should be a lot easier if we
> can find a better room next time]
>   - if you want to keep your Windows partition, defrag if you haven't
> already
>   - set up your partitions with Partition Magic if necessary
>   - begin install, etc. etc. etc.
> 
> Most people could get at least the first two done by themselves with
> little or no assistance. Then a Helper can walk them through the rest, and
> if the person happens to know enough to install mostly by themselves with
> the aid of the sheet, more power to them.
> 
> The second sheet to pass out could be more of a "Introduction to Linux"
> tutorial, with (of course) instructions on how to subscribe to the newbies
> list, as well as some other useful information.
> 
> 
> 6) Even more bizarre ideas.
> 
> Some sort of "marking" for the helpers, so that people who are struggling
> can see who they need to seek out, and so that other helpers can easily
> see who's being helped and who isn't.
> 
> Some sort of "marking" for the computers themselves to see at a glance
> what stage they're in. For example, I saw one guy who couldn't get his
> wireless ethernet card to work, and so had a piece of paper stuck to his
> notebook that said, "NEED WIRELESS HELP!" or something like that. I'm
> envisioning something along those lines for everyone, so you can look up
> and at a glance see a few "DEFRAGGING" signs, a few "USING PARTITION
> MAGIC" signs, a few "NEED PARTITION MAGIC" signs, a few "INSTALLING FILES"
> signs, and a few "PROBLEM: NEED HELP" signs. I don't know, though--that
> might end up being more complex and more trouble than it's worth. At the
> very least, I think, though, there should be something for problems which
> hint to the general nature of the problem, so anybody can look around and
> see if there are issues which need to be attended to.
> 
> 
> 
> Ok, well that was fun! Hope you all enjoyed m rant, and even though I'm
> sure not all of my comments were very useful, hopefully there will be one
> or two gems in all that that can be taken out, polished, and perhaps used
> to make a future installfest even better.
> 
> Another big thanks to all those who participated. I was, indeed, very
> impressed.
> 
>   ~ ross
> 
> 
> ____________________
> BYU Unix Users Group 
> http://uug.byu.edu/ 
> ___________________________________________________________________
> List Info: http://uug.byu.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/uug-list

-- 
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
Michael Halcrow                             | mike@halcrow.us     
Developer, IBM Linux Technology Center      |                      
                                            |
Where did you want to go yesterday?         |
------------------------------------------- | ---------------------
GnuPG Keyprint:  05B5 08A8 713A 64C1 D35D  2371 2D3C FDDA 3EB6 601D

From emcnabb at cs.byu.edu  Sun Sep 14 23:35:32 2003
From: emcnabb at cs.byu.edu (Evan McNabb)
Date: Sun Sep 14 22:35:12 2003
Subject: [uug] Installfest review
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309132233510.24188-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
References: <20030914035440.GA3156@medusa.nabbernet.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0309132233510.24188-100000@isaiah.agilevr.com>
Message-ID: <20030915043532.GE2919@medusa.nabbernet.net>

Halcrow posted a good response to a lot of stuff but I'll try to answer
a few more of your questions.

> 1) I honestly think we should have them more often if the turnout is that
> great! I'm not sure how often we're having them now, but I talked to some
> people who had come last year and were just there for an "upgrade" and to
> fix a few simple problems. Are there other technical/bureaucratic
> limitations to having them more often, or is it just a lot of work on you,
> Evan? 

We really did have a good turnout. I wouldn't mind having another this
semester but here are a few reasons why we've only done one a semester:

1) It's a lot of work and pretty tiring. (I was gone from 9am - 5:30pm
on Saturday)

2) People (both installers and installees) tend to get really busy after
the first month; the response probably wouldn't be nearly as good from
both sides.

3) People are much less likely to mess with their computers after
classes have been going for a few weeks; if you break your box early on
you don't have to worry about not being able to type a paper that's due
the next day.

If club members are interested in doing another I'd be willing to organize
it. 

> 2) Pre-install instructions. On our flyers, we should have some "fine
> print" that lists instructions of what to do, i.e.:
> 
>  * Bring your computer case, mouse, and keyboard. We will have a few
>    monitors available if you're unable to bring yours.
>  * If you want to be able to use both Windows and Linux, defragment your
>    hard drive the night before so we can resize the partition. (If you
>    already have another partition or another hard drive we can erase and
>    put Linux on, you don't need to do this.)
>  * Back up all important data (burn it to a CD or copy it to a different
>    computer) just in case.
> 
> 
> The important part of the above I think is the "DEFRAG BEFORE YOU COME"
> message. There were several people there whose install time could have
> been one-tenth the time if they had defragged the night before. I thought
> we had put out some message like this, but the people I talked to said
> they had heard no such thing.

These are very good points. Michael talked about this in his message too. Next
time we should designate someone a week before it happens (instead of right
before like this time) to be the official "flier/poster maker". I think
we need to add all of these points on what we distribute. I would have added
them this time but things got a little busy.

> 3) Even though it was a /Linux/ install-fest, I think some of those
> Windows-software SSS CDs would have been cool to have around.

Yes. And we should have extra Knoppix, Mandrake, Debian, etc CDs there
too.  Sometimes one distro won't install or crashes and your only choice
is to try another. We had that happen a few times but we weren't
prepared with them.

> 4) Aren't there more free alternatives to Partition Magic out there? Back
> as far as four years ago or something I used Mandrake's installer to
> resize partitions and that worked beautifully. I've heard about parted as
> well. Wouldn't those be useful to have on-hand?

Halcrow discussed this. I think this (parted/qtparted) would be fine,
but I just haven't used them a lot.

> The second sheet to pass out could be more of a "Introduction to Linux"
> tutorial, with (of course) instructions on how to subscribe to the newbies
> list, as well as some other useful information.

This is a good point. I think one problem is that by the time the
install is done we're already helping another 2 or 3 people and we don't
have time to really explain what to do next. We need to help people to
know where to go next. Michael Torrie suggested printing up the RH
manual and selling it at a break even cost. Well, no matter what, we
just need to do something more. Maybe a special howto on the UUG
website would be good.

> 6) Even more bizarre ideas.
> 
> Some sort of "marking" for the helpers, so that people who are struggling
> can see who they need to seek out, and so that other helpers can easily
> see who's being helped and who isn't.
> 
> Some sort of "marking" for the computers themselves to see at a glance
> what stage they're in. For example, I saw one guy who couldn't get his
> wireless ethernet card to work, and so had a piece of paper stuck to his
> notebook that said, "NEED WIRELESS HELP!" or something like that. I'm
> envisioning something along those lines for everyone, so you can look up
> and at a glance see a few "DEFRAGGING" signs, a few "USING PARTITION
> MAGIC" signs, a few "NEED PARTITION MAGIC" signs, a few "INSTALLING FILES"
> signs, and a few "PROBLEM: NEED HELP" signs. I don't know, though--that
> might end up being more complex and more trouble than it's worth. At the
> very least, I think, though, there should be something for problems which
> hint to the general nature of the problem, so anybody can look around and
> see if there are issues which need to be attended to.

Yeah. I was trying to direct people to those who needed help but it could
have been a little more efficient. For example, everyone with wireless 
problems was sent to Dave Smith. :-)

> Another big thanks to all those who participated. I was, indeed, very
> impressed.

And thanks for coming. Every time we have some troubles but overall it's 
getting better and better.

On last thing, Frank suggested that we get a bin like the following to put
club stuff in:

 http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=33255-315-2463

This would make it really nice to put extra power cables, ethernet cables,
power strips, etc in. We do have a pile of club "junk"; it would be nice to 
organize it better. 

Well, I need some sleep.

-Evan

-- 
/********************************************************************\
       Evan McNabb: <emcnabb@cs.byu.edu> <evan@mcnabbs.org>
		     http://evan.mcnabbs.org
             System Administrator, CS Department, BYU
 GnuPG Fingerprint: 53B5 EDCA 5543 A27A E0E1 2B2F 6776 8F9C 6A35 6EA5
\********************************************************************/

The materials and information included in this website may only be used
for purposes such as criticism, review, private study, scholarship, or
research.

Electronic mail:			       WorldWideWeb:
   tech-insider@outlook.com			  http://tech-insider.org/