Mozilla Bug 72540 [ http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=72540 ]

Web pages should always have vertical scrollbars by default

Currently, Mozilla does not display scrollbars when a Web page does not need any. When a page is long enough to require a scrollbar, Mozilla adds one. This causes the browser's canvas to be shortened by the width of the scrollbar.

Proponents of changing Mozilla's behavior make the following points:

• The Microsoft Windows User Experience [ http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/welcome.asp ] guidelines specify that scrollbars should always be visible [ http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnwue/html/ch07d.asp ], and that they should be disabled when the content does not need to scroll.
• The Macintosh Human Interface Guidelines [ http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/HIGuidelines/HIGuidelines-2.html ] specify that scrollbars should always be visible [ http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/mac/HIGuidelines/HIGuidelines-121.html#HEADING121-4 ], and that they should be outlined with no scroll thumb visible when the content does not need to scroll.
• The Macintosh Aqua Human Interface Guidelines [ http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Essentials/AquaHIGuidelines/AHGIntro/index.html ] specify that scrollbars should always be visible [ http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/Essentials/AquaHIGuidelines/AHIGWindows/Scrolling_Windows.html ], and that they should be present with no scroll thumb visible when the content does not need to scroll.
• Tradition suggests that Mozilla should always show vertical scrollbars, or at least reserve the space for them, since this is how Internet Explorer on Windows, Netscape 4 on both Windows and Mac, and Opera on both Windows and Mac OS 9 behave. Since these browsers are used by more than 90% of the Web-viewing public, it only seems natural that Mozilla should behave the way that 90% of its potential client base is used to.
• There is no HTML or CSS standard that even suggests a browser should behave the way Mozilla does.
• Scrollbars are part of the user interface and as such they should be something that authors can safely ignore (see next point).
• Mozilla's current behavior makes it impossible for a site to maintain consistent positioning of page elements under the following conditions:
  1. When a site uses relative sizing so that pages expand or contract to fill the user's browser window size.
  2. When a site uses centered content.
  3. When a site uses right-aligned content.

Opponents of changing Mozilla's behavior make the following points:

• It is ugly, and it takes up screen real estate when vertical scrollbars are present when the page does not need to scroll.
• There is precedent in other Microsoft programs for Mozilla's current behavior (i.e., Power Point and Windows Explorer).
• All versions of Internet Explorer on the Macintosh, Opera 5 on Mac OSX, and OmniWeb behave the same way that Mozilla currently does.
• It is internally inconsistent for Mozilla to have persistent scrollbars on the view port, but not on IFRAMEs, OBJECTs, IMGs, and TEXTAREAS.
• Platform interface guidelines should be ignored when they are stupid.

Vote

So now it's up to you to tell the world what you think. How do you think Mozilla should behave?

X Mozilla should have persistent scrollbars, or reserve the space for one.

X Mozilla should not have persistent scrollbars, nor reserve the space for one

Copyright 2002