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From: a...@rocky.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: New Macs
Message-ID: <148@rocky.STANFORD.EDU>
Date: Mon, 2-Mar-87 20:13:03 EST
Article-I.D.: rocky.148
Posted: Mon Mar  2 20:13:03 1987
Date-Received: Wed, 4-Mar-87 20:45:58 EST
Reply-To: a...@rocky.ARPA (Ali Ozer)
Distribution: na
Organization: Stanford University Computer Science Department
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[]

Well, the new Macs were announced today...

Macintosh II, $5500, comes with SIX slots, OPTIONAL with color boards,
  OPTIONAL networking capability, OPTIONAL MS-DOS compatibility, 
  and Unix System V port end of summer. (I thought for $40000 you were 
  going to get COLOR. Well rumors do lie.)

Macintosh SE, Price ?, comes with ONE slot and hard disk.

Oh well, neither fits what I consider will be my next computer:

1. Powerful enough to emulate an Amiga 1000 in real time
2. Offers something more than the Amiga 1000
3. Is multitasking
4. Costs <$2000.
5. Wins my heart

What computer fulfills all of the above points? Well, the A2000 of course.
Looks like my next computer will be an Amiga 2000!

(Of course, I never doubted that. In fact, I don't think Apple could
ever fulfill point 5 above. Commodore always has, with the 4k Pet,
the C64, and the Amiga. (So I am biased, ok!))

Ali Ozer, a...@rocky.stanford.edu OR a...@score.stanford.edu
          I finally have another path: ...!decwrl!rocky.stanford.edu!ali

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dillon
From: dil...@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <8703032126.AA15825@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Tue, 3-Mar-87 16:26:29 EST
Article-I.D.: cory.8703032126.AA15825
Posted: Tue Mar  3 16:26:29 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 6-Mar-87 00:19:15 EST
Sender: dae...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
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	The new Mac's look nice, if a bit overpriced.  But since they don't
support full multi-tasking, Apple's *Bang* Sounds more like a feeble *pop*.
Frankly, I don't see the use of having a machine with the capacity for
MegaBytes of RAM if it can only run one application at a time (you can only
do so much with desk accessories).

					-Matt

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From: cb...@andrew.cmu.edu.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <MS.V3.18.cb29.80021115.gettysburg.ibm032.131.0@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Wed, 4-Mar-87 15:17:41 EST
Article-I.D.: andrew.MS.V3.18.cb29.80021115.gettysburg.ibm032.131.0
Posted: Wed Mar  4 15:17:41 1987
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Mike -

	How can you say the Amiga 1000 (or even the 2000) is a better
machine?!?
The Mac II moves almost 4 times as fast!  They can put a software coded,
multi-tasking op-system in there and it'll still run 2 to 3 times as fast.

	Oh when is the A3000 going to come out with a real 68020?

			-- Chad


Who needs an address anyway (-:

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From: n...@utcsscb.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <571@utcsscb.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 5-Mar-87 20:28:42 EST
Article-I.D.: utcsscb.571
Posted: Thu Mar  5 20:28:42 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 6-Mar-87 05:28:10 EST
References: <8703032126.AA15825@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Reply-To: n...@utcsscb.UUCP (Nick Zehlena)
Organization: Univ. of Toronto - Scarborough Campus "B" VAX
Lines: 18
Summary: 

In article <8703032126.AA15...@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dil...@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP 
writes:
>
>	The new Mac's look nice, if a bit overpriced.  But since they don't
>support full multi-tasking, Apple's *Bang* Sounds more like a feeble *pop*.
>Frankly, I don't see the use of having a machine with the capacity for
>MegaBytes of RAM if it can only run one application at a time (you can only
>do so much with desk accessories).
>
>					-Matt



	I always thought that Unix offered full multitasking. Admittly that
is not the primary OS coming with the machine anybody putting the full 8megs
of ram onto the motherboard or even going all the way to 2gigabytes of memory
will want Unix.

	Nick

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From: da...@cbmvax.cbm.UUCP (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <1503@cbmvax.cbmvax.cbm.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 6-Mar-87 04:44:35 EST
Article-I.D.: cbmvax.1503
Posted: Fri Mar  6 04:44:35 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Mar-87 06:21:03 EST
References: <MS.V3.18.cb29.80021115.gettysburg.ibm032.131.0@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Commodore Technology, West Chester, PA
Lines: 46

> Mike -
> 
> 	How can you say the Amiga 1000 (or even the 2000) is a better
> machine?!?
> The Mac II moves almost 4 times as fast!  They can put a software coded,
> multi-tasking op-system in there and it'll still run 2 to 3 times as fast.
> 
> 	Oh when is the A3000 going to come out with a real 68020?
> 
> 			-- Chad

Better is a relative term -- a Mac II _might_ very well be 4 times faster,
but its probably also 4-6 times more expensive.  And its not out yet, so
I certainly can't tell you if its that much better than an A1000 or A2000
(and you can tell from my signature that I'd be totally unbiased in my
evaluation, had I a Mac II on my desk now).  As is, my Amiga 1000 at home
or Amiga 2000 at work can do work faster overall than any currently existing
MacIntosh.  And I could get up early tomorrow (yea, right), call CSA, and
order a 68020 board and some mighty-fast 32 bit memory.  Now, today, with a
year-1/2 old A1000, or a real cheap A500 even.  And the A1000's OS, as is, 
will work just dandy with that 68020, maybe 4 times faster, with its 
currently existing multitasking, real time, message passing, etc. OS.  
Meanwhile, you're waiting for a Mac II, which you probably can't get 'till 
the summer, which will cost you much more, and will still only do one thing 
at a time (certainly fast) until you fork out additional geeters for UNIX or 
some similar OS.  And then you still won't be real-time and message passing,
so the Amiga concept of small, fast tasks (that, really, can hurt each
other if you let them) passes you by.  I'm sure the Mac II will do well,
especially with UNIX, as a replacement for something like a Sun-2 or
Sun-3 (heck, a stock Mac or Amiga isn't much slower, CPU-wise, than a
Sun-2).  And the A2000 will do well too.  Or I'm gonna break some bones! :-)




-- 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                                   __  ____    ____    _____   _____   _____
Dave Haynie                       /// / _  |  / __ \  /  _  \ /  _  \ /  _  \
Commodore Technology             /// / / | | /_/  | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\  /// / /__| |  ____/ | | | | | | | | | | | | |
                            |\\/// / ____  | / ____/  | | | | | | | | | | | |
                             \\// / /    | | | |____  | |_| | | |_| | | |_| |
{ihnp4,etc.}!cbmvax!daveh     \/ /_/     |_| \______| \_____/ \_____/ \_____/

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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dillon
From: dil...@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <8703051939.AA24035@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Thu, 5-Mar-87 14:39:46 EST
Article-I.D.: cory.8703051939.AA24035
Posted: Thu Mar  5 14:39:46 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 7-Mar-87 00:12:42 EST
Sender: dae...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 26

>Mike -
>
>	How can you say the Amiga 1000 (or even the 2000) is a better
>machine?!?
>The Mac II moves almost 4 times as fast!  They can put a software coded,
>multi-tasking op-system in there and it'll still run 2 to 3 times as fast.
>
>	Oh when is the A3000 going to come out with a real 68020?
>
>			-- Chad
>
>Who needs an address anyway (-:

	From what I hear, the Mac II is 4 times faster than the Mac+. The Mac+
is about half as fast as the Amiga due to video refresh.  Thus, the Mac II is
only twice as fast as a vanila Amiga.  

	Since 68020's are available for the standard Amiga 1000, and I note
here that an Amiga system with a 68020 board + Megs of Ram STILL would cost
*much* LESS than a Mac II, such an Amiga would run at least on par with the
Mac II in terms of processor speed.

	They can put a software coded multi-tasking system in there all
right... If they redesign the operating system.

					-Matt

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From: l...@apple.UUCP (Larry Rosenstein)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <516@apple.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 6-Mar-87 20:26:56 EST
Article-I.D.: apple.516
Posted: Fri Mar  6 20:26:56 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 8-Mar-87 09:51:49 EST
References: <8703051939.AA24035@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
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Organization: Advanced Technology Group, Apple Computer
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In article <8703051939.AA24...@cory.Berkeley.EDU> dil...@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU 
(Matt Dillon) writes:
>	From what I hear, the Mac II is 4 times faster than the Mac+. The Mac+
>is about half as fast as the Amiga due to video refresh.  Thus, the Mac II is
>only twice as fast as a vanila Amiga.  
>

I doubt that an Amiga is twice as fast as a Mac Plus; 20% is more like it.
(The Mac SE, which has improved video hardware is about 20% faster than a
Mac Plus, and I assume that a Mac SE and Amiga are comartouli vai!hair 

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From: dil...@CORY.BERKELEY.EDU (Matt Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: New Macs
Message-ID: <8703081002.AA13809@cory.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: Sun, 8-Mar-87 05:02:45 EST
Article-I.D.: cory.8703081002.AA13809
Posted: Sun Mar  8 05:02:45 1987
Date-Received: Mon, 9-Mar-87 03:29:59 EST
Sender: dae...@ucbvax.BERKELEY.EDU
Organization: University of California at Berkeley
Lines: 21

>	I always thought that Unix offered full multitasking. Admittly that
>is not the primary OS coming with the machine anybody putting the full 8megs
>of ram onto the motherboard or even going all the way to 2gigabytes of memory
>will want Unix.
>
>	Nick

	I will rephrase my statement: The Macintosh Operating System on the
Mac II will not support full multitasking.   Frankly I don't see much use
in putting 16Meg on the machine unless you plan to run UNIX on it.

	In fact, 16Meg is all you can stick in a Mac II... not 2 gig.  (This
is not a flame.  After all, the Amiga's max is 8Meg).  Never assume you have
the entire address space of the processor to work with.  In many cases, an
address space is split up into several sections.  VAXen for instance split 
Their 32 bit address space into four quarters (with the last one reserved by
DEC).  The Amiga utilizes some amount of it's address space for ROM, 
Co-processor/IO, and external cards. xxxUnihoutho

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