Path: gmdzi!unido!pcsbst!jkh
From: j...@meepmeep.pcs.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Why is the Amiga 3000 so damned expensive in Europe?
Message-ID: <JKH.90Jul17192155@meepmeep.pcs.com>
Date: 17 Jul 90 18:21:55 GMT
Sender: n...@pcsbst.pcs.com
Distribution: comp
Organization: PCS Computer Systems, GmbH
Lines: 51
Posted: Tue Jul 17 19:21:55 1990
Ok, I'll admit that I haven't shopped for one in every European
country so far, but if Germany and England can be judged adequate
mid-to-low points in the European cost spectrum, then the Amiga
is still grossly overpriced here. A typical 25Mhz, 40MB configuration
here in Munich, for instance, will run you a cool DM8000 or more. That's
about $4800 USD at current rates of exchange. The cost is about the same
in London, given the current Pounds <-> USD exchange rate (a little more,
actually).
My only question is "WHY?". Aren't they making them over here? If not,
why not? We've got loads of Eager East Germans that would love to build
the suckers! If not the east germans, why not the Poles, or the Czechs?
There's also Ireland and Scotland, though the tax advantages might not
be as nice (if someone can show me that Irish labour + Tax laws are a
significant competitor to their eastern european counterparts, I'll gladly
eat those words). In any case, the bottom line is a reasonably priced 3000
and I just don't see it. As a contrast, a 500 can be bought in Germany
for as little as DM850, or a 2000 (both stock) for DM1700. I think that
both of those prices are more than competetive with the US rates (I've
heard that 2000's are actually MORE expensive in the U.S, figure that).
Note that by "reasonably priced" I'm not talking 5 for a dollar, I'm
merely asking for something that meets (or, heh heh, beats) current
average prices in the U.S.
While we're in flame mode, how 'bout somebody tells the German distributors
that NOT EVERYONE wants a german %$#%#$!! keyboard! For typing in personal
correspondence to your Tante Ingrid in Frankfurt with umlauts and all,
it's fine. For writing C code, or programming in general, it sucks. Yet
when I tried to get a Munich distributor to order a 3000 for me with
a US keyboard, or even a British one (I can live with a "pound" over the 3),
they said it simply "was not possible". It was, in fact, this rejection
that lead me to starting looking at possible U.S. ordering alternatives
and thus exposing the price differential. At this point, I'd pretty much
be willing to pay the extra, but not to live with a German keyboard.
Remap it, you say? Sure, I can remap it. On my 500 I've remapped it. However,
I still sometimes forget where a certain key is and I'd like to have the
keycaps agree with what I'm typing 90% of the time. I'm funny that way.
If someone can recommend some sort of relabeling scheme that doesn't make
the keys feel funny, I'm open to suggestions for the 500, but for what they're
charging for the 3000, I'm damn well gonna get the keyboard I want! For
DM900 I can live with a bad keyboard, for DM8000, no way.
Jordan
[ spleen vented, core dumped.. ]
--
PCS Computer Systeme GmbH, Munich, West Germany
UUCP: pyramid!pcsbst!jkh j...@meepmeep.pcs.com
EUNET: unido!pcsbst!jkh
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Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!
cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!jesup
From: je...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Randell Jesup)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.hardware
Subject: Re: Why is the Amiga 3000 so damned expensive in Europe?
Message-ID: <13290@cbmvax.commodore.com>
Date: 19 Jul 90 01:28:15 GMT
References: <JKH.90Jul17192155@meepmeep.pcs.com>
Reply-To: jesup@cbmvax (Randell Jesup)
Distribution: comp
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
Lines: 90
Posted: Thu Jul 19 02:28:15 1990
Disclaimer: I'm an engineer, not a marketing person, and I have no direct
knowlege of how pricing is handled. These are my own opinions and
observations, not those of Commodore or any of it's subsidiaries, and are
not based on any confidential knowlege.
In article <JKH.90Jul17192...@meepmeep.pcs.com> j...@meepmeep.pcs.com
(Jordan K. Hubbard) writes:
>mid-to-low points in the European cost spectrum, then the Amiga
>is still grossly overpriced here. A typical 25Mhz, 40MB configuration
>here in Munich, for instance, will run you a cool DM8000 or more. That's
>about $4800 USD at current rates of exchange.
Each country's sales company sets it's own prices, based on local
market factors, how much they're charged by production, exchange rates,
shipping, advertising, local overhead & taxes, etc. This causes a fair amount
of variance in pricing.
>My only question is "WHY?". Aren't they making them over here? If not,
>why not? We've got loads of Eager East Germans that would love to build
>the suckers! If not the east germans, why not the Poles, or the Czechs?
Commodore builds machines in BSG, near the East German border. As
re-integration of East and West Germany occurs, I wouldn't be suprised if they
recruited workers from across the old border, etc. Also, Commodore has
appointed someone in Europe to be in charge of Eastern Europe, and it might
be quite profitable to put a factory over there, build machines, sell some
locally to cover operating expenses, and export to the rest of the world to
get our profits. I suspect Eastern European governments would be quite
happy to have high-tech products assembled locally, even if many of the
parts (drives, chips, etc) come from elsewhere, and they might give
considerable incentives. Also, it would give Commodore a strong foothold in
those countries for when their economies recover, and more individuals can
afford computers (schools and business would be most of the initial market).
In my personal opinion the prime candidates would be Hungary,
Czechoslovakia, and Poland. Perhaps the Soviet Union or one it's republics
(Baltics, or Ukraine), but it's a bit unstable at the moment, and riskier.
>and I just don't see it. As a contrast, a 500 can be bought in Germany
>for as little as DM850, or a 2000 (both stock) for DM1700. I think that
>both of those prices are more than competetive with the US rates (I've
>heard that 2000's are actually MORE expensive in the U.S, figure that).
A500's are (I think) about $600 US street price, and I think
A2000's are ~$1200 US (I don't really follow street prices). This is about
equivalent to DM1000 for an A500, and about DM2000 for an A2000. So prices
are better in germany on those (BTW, do those prices include taxes, or are
those "take it home" prices?) I've heard many US dealers and developers
bitching on BIX over the last several years about how low prices in Germany
(and the rest of Europe) are versus the US, so it's not one-sided.
>Note that by "reasonably priced" I'm not talking 5 for a dollar, I'm
>merely asking for something that meets (or, heh heh, beats) current
>average prices in the U.S.
Also, remember that "street price" is more-or-less set by the dealers.
We sell it to them at a given price, and they mark it up to another price,
usually somewhat below "list" price. It could be that US dealers are taking
a smaller amount of profit per unit, and are trying to sell more units.
Realize in the US they're competing against a cutthroat PC-clone market and
against workstations like the SS1, etc that are not too far above them
in price. From what I hear, the higher-end micro market in Europe is less
aggressively competitive, and thus dealers take higher margins (classic
economics).
>While we're in flame mode, how 'bout somebody tells the German distributors
>that NOT EVERYONE wants a german %$#%#$!! keyboard! For typing in personal
>correspondence to your Tante Ingrid in Frankfurt with umlauts and all,
>it's fine. For writing C code, or programming in general, it sucks. Yet
Contact the local Commodore Sales company about things like that.
They can probably help you, or at least point you at a dealer that can order
one for you (or you can order one from a British dealer, I suppose). I haven't
seen a german keyboard (except once), so I don't know why it's a pain to use.
The local sales company specifies the keyboard for their country.
Remember, Commodore is a bunch of fairly independant companies (especially
the sales companies), so certain policies vary.
>the keys feel funny, I'm open to suggestions for the 500, but for what they're
>charging for the 3000, I'm damn well gonna get the keyboard I want! For
>DM900 I can live with a bad keyboard, for DM8000, no way.
Another possibility: order a couple of keycaps for the keys you really
care about (like the [{ ]} keys) from a service center or dealer or whatever.
Disclaimer: see disclaimer above.
--
Randell Jesup, Keeper of AmigaDos, Commodore Engineering.
{uunet|rutgers}!cbmvax!jesup, je...@cbmvax.cbm.commodore.com BIX: rjesup
Common phrase heard at Amiga Devcon '89: "It's in there!"