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aplcen!samsung!think.com!spool.mu.edu!wupost!csus.edu!ucdavis!iris!zerkle
From: zer...@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: Release Dates
Message-ID: <10320@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
Date: 4 Nov 91 02:42:44 GMT
References: <strat.689209146@harris.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu>
Sender: use...@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu
Reply-To: zer...@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle)
Organization: U.C. Davis - Department of Electrical Engineering and Computer Science
Lines: 26
In article <strat.689209...@harris.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> st...@cis.ksu.edu
(Steve W Davis) writes:
>I would like to know proposed, expected, guessed release dates for:
>
>1. The next major revision of PageStream.
2.2 will be out any time now.
>2. The next major revision of the Toaster software.
2.0 is either out or almost out. I saw it in Oakland, complete with
raining sheep.
>3. The next major revision of Art Department Professional.
Again, 2.0 is just out. Some say it is very nice.
>5. The next major revision of WP (or any current news...)
The little electronic news magazine in .misc, plus the rumor mill,
says that they are working very hard on 5.0 for the Amiga, and that it
will really be Amiga-style software, not a mere port of the MS-DOS
version. The guess of January sounds much too soon to me. If I were
to guess, I would say April.
Dan Zerkle zer...@iris.eecs.ucdavis.edu (916) 754-0240
Amiga... Because life is too short for boring computers.
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orca!javelin.sim.es.com!blgardne
From: blgar...@javelin.sim.es.com (Dances With Bikers)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors (Was Re: Release Dates)
Message-ID: <1991Nov4.163730.9883@javelin.sim.es.com>
Date: 4 Nov 91 16:37:30 GMT
References: <strat.689209146@harris.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu>
<10320@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
Reply-To: blgar...@javelin.sim.es.com
Organization: Evans & Sutherland Computer Corporation
Lines: 24
zer...@iris.ucdavis.edu (Dan Zerkle) writes:
>>5. The next major revision of WP (or any current news...)
>The little electronic news magazine in .misc, plus the rumor mill,
>says that they are working very hard on 5.0 for the Amiga, and that it
>will really be Amiga-style software, not a mere port of the MS-DOS
>version. The guess of January sounds much too soon to me. If I were
>to guess, I would say April.
The latest rumors from Orem are that Word Perfect 5.0 has been ported to
the Amiga from the Unix WP 5.0 C code, and that it's at beta test stage
now. But, and this is the big one, Word Perfect is having second
thoughts about spending the money required to make it a shippable
product. I guess that a million or two in Amiga sales just doesn't mean
much when they're making tens of millions a month on their MS-DOS
product.
If you want to see WP 5.0 on the Amiga, it would probably be a good idea
if you wrote or called them to voice your opinion.
--
Blaine Gardner @ Evans & Sutherland 580 Arapeen Drive, SLC, Utah 84108
blgar...@javelin.sim.es.com uunet!javelin.sim.es.com!blgardne BIX: blaine_g
DoD #46 My other motorcycle is a Quadracer. FJ1200
"Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug." Mark Knopfler
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From: ragg0...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu (Richard Alan Gerber)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Date: 8 Nov 91 15:31:11 GMT
References: <strat.689209146@harris.cis.ksu.edu.cis.ksu.edu> <10320@ucdavis.ucdavis.edu>
<1991Nov4.163730.9883@javelin.sim.es.com> <DGILBERT.91Nov5085356@aeshq.uucp>
<1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com>
Sender: use...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 11
It look like you've missed the discussion in the other Amiga newsgroups:
It's official, WP is dropping all development on Amiga products. Their
letters made it sound like support for 4.1 would not be indefinite either.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Gerber
Grad Student Physics
ger...@rigel.astro.uiuc.edu
University of Illinois @ Urbana-Champaign
-------------------------------------------------------------
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isis.cs.du.edu!echadez
From: echa...@isis.cs.du.edu (Edward Vincent Chadez)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Date: 8 Nov 91 19:21:33 GMT
References: <DGILBERT.91Nov5085356@aeshq.uucp>
<1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com> <1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
Sender: use...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
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X-Disclaimer: Nyx is a public access Unix system run by the University
of Denver for the Denver community. The University has neither
control over nor responsibility for the opinions of users.
In article <1991Nov8.153111...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ragg0...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Richard Alan Gerber) writes:
>It look like you've missed the discussion in the other Amiga newsgroups:
>It's official, WP is dropping all development on Amiga products. Their
>letters made it sound like support for 4.1 would not be indefinite either.
Well, it seems like rumors like this come around every other day. I've read
that WP *IS* thinking of updating the WP product for the Amiga...and I've
read that it's in in-house testing.... And, yes, I've been reading the
other newsgroups, as well.
But hey! Who knows? My question today is, if not WordPefect as the
definative text only processor (for MY purposes)..what then?? Would someone
mind starting a thread about different word processors??
-Ed Chadez
--
echa...@isis.cs.du.edu: Amiga3000 -- Computer Animation -- C programming
"Visualize Whirrled Peas."
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hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!barrett
From: barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <1991Nov8.185004.16646@news.iastate.edu>
Date: 8 Nov 91 18:50:04 GMT
References: <1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com>
<1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
Sender: n...@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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In article <1991Nov8.192133.10...@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> echa...@isis.cs.du.edu
(Edward Vincent Chadez) writes:
>In article <1991Nov8.153111...@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> ragg0...@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
(Richard Alan Gerber) writes:
>>It look like you've missed the discussion in the other Amiga newsgroups:
>>It's official, WP is dropping all development on Amiga products. Their
>>letters made it sound like support for 4.1 would not be indefinite either.
>
>Well, it seems like rumors like this come around every other day. I've read
>that WP *IS* thinking of updating the WP product for the Amiga...and I've
>read that it's in in-house testing.... And, yes, I've been reading the
>other newsgroups, as well.
It is totally official: no more upgrades for Amiga WordPerfect. I
heard this straight from some people at WP Corp. customer support.
>
>But hey! Who knows? My question today is, if not WordPefect as the
>definative text only processor (for MY purposes)..what then?? Would someone
>mind starting a thread about different word processors??
There are no decent alternatives to WordPerfect. None of the
current ones have the depth of Amiga WP, and are not even in the same
league as MAC WordPerfect 2.1 and MAC Word 4.0.
>
>-Ed Chadez
>
>
>--
>echa...@isis.cs.du.edu: Amiga3000 -- Computer Animation -- C programming
>"Visualize Whirrled Peas."
--
----------------------------------------------------
Marc Barrett -MB- | What is Al Haig doing on the |
BARR...@IASTATE.EDU | Commodore Board, anyway? |
----------------------------------------------------
Path: gmdzi!zeus.ieee.org!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!gatech!hubcap!ddyer
From: dd...@hubcap.clemson.edu (Doug Dyer)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <1991Nov8.223052.7578@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Date: 8 Nov 91 22:30:52 GMT
References: <1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com>
<1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
<1991Nov8.185004.16646@news.iastate.edu>
Organization: Clemson University
Lines: 19
barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
> There are no decent alternatives to WordPerfect. None of the
>current ones have the depth of Amiga WP, and are not even in the same
>league as MAC WordPerfect 2.1 and MAC Word 4.0.
could you explain yourself? Start a list of features that are lacking in
say, prowrite, compared to these. I haven't used a wordprocessor on the
MAC, and never liked wordperfect, so this isnt a challenge but a
curiosity.
>----------------------------------------------------
>Marc Barrett -MB- | What is Al Haig doing on the |
>BARR...@IASTATE.EDU | Commodore Board, anyway? |
>----------------------------------------------------
--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Doug Dyer * Clemson University * dd...@hubcap.clemson.edu
Quote 'O Fun: DOS is a bike without the seat. skydive naked
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <25710@cbmvax.commodore.com>
Date: 9 Nov 91 00:56:41 GMT
References: <1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com>
<1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
<1991Nov8.185004.16646@news.iastate.edu>
Reply-To: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
Lines: 42
In article <1991Nov8.185004.16...@news.iastate.edu> barr...@iastate.edu
(Marc N Barrett) writes:
> There are no decent alternatives to WordPerfect. None of the
>current ones have the depth of Amiga WP, and are not even in the same
>league as MAC WordPerfect 2.1 and MAC Word 4.0.
Well, I don't know about leagues on other systems, but I have yet to find
a wordprocessor of any kind that's even comparable to the word markup language
(Scribe) I used back in 1979. I think it's rather inescapable that, if you
use a program alot and like it, you aren't willing to settle for less. I got
WordPerfect way back when, based on its reputation. I guess if you never
saw a wordprocessor before, it would be OK. In the same league as the old
good semi-markup programs for C64 and C128, like PaperClip 3.0. Nothing at
all earth shaking, though. My guess was that WordPerfect made it, not on
technical excellence, but [a] though very good support, [b] being just that
much better than WordPro, and [c] being in the right place at the right time.
The bad thing, though, seems to be that when programs when to real WYSIWYG
rather than semi-markup, they lost features again (the first big feature loss
was going from markup to semi-markup, but that was a big one, like two order
of magnitude). Now the WYSIWYG wordprocessors may be gaining some power, I
don't know for sure. Personally, it would take some serious salesmanship to
move me. I'll use a DTP program, since, with enough manual effort, it'll do
anything I like. And these are more and more inheriting wordprocessing
features on the semi-markup level, as good as any Wordperfect 4.0. For real
wordprocessing, when lots of diagrams and graphics aren't necessary (one of
the drawbacks of writing about hardware and systems), I would still, 12 years
later, go for a markup language. Tom R's AmigaTeX apparently makes that
rather painless, even. Give me a wordprocessor that handles document trees,
automatic bibliographies, index tags, image tags in Pro-Draw, DR2D, and
EPS formats, postscript output, _real_ text editing (something in the
Emacs range is fine, at least optionally), etc. and then I'll maybe believe
that wordprocessors are real. I have no doubts that lots of folks out there
are happy with the wordprocessors they use every day, but that's the same
reason they're happy with their IBM PCs, Ford Escorts, and Budweiser; they
haven't tried or don't appreciate anything better.
--
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
{uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh BIX: hazy
"I could turn you inside-out" R.E.M.
Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!sun-barr!rutgers!bagate!cbmvax!daveh
From: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <25711@cbmvax.commodore.com>
Date: 9 Nov 91 01:17:50 GMT
References: <1991Nov8.003838.4416@javelin.sim.es.com>
<1991Nov8.153111.35@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu> <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
<1991Nov8.185004.16646@news.iastate.edu> <1991Nov8.223052.7578@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Reply-To: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
Lines: 73
In article <1991Nov8.223052.7...@hubcap.clemson.edu> dd...@hubcap.clemson.edu
(Doug Dyer) writes:
>barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>> There are no decent alternatives to WordPerfect. None of the
>>current ones have the depth of Amiga WP, and are not even in the same
>>league as MAC WordPerfect 2.1 and MAC Word 4.0.
>could you explain yourself? Start a list of features that are lacking in
>say, prowrite, compared to these. I haven't used a wordprocessor on the
>MAC, and never liked wordperfect, so this isnt a challenge but a
>curiosity.
I don't know that much about any current generation Mac wordprocessor, but I
have a reasonable idea of what you can get in a document preparation tool,
simply because I used on in the late 70's (Scribe) that did pretty much
anything I could ask, at least at the time. Scribe was a markup language,
much the same idea as TeX, only in English :-). Since then, every attempt at
a "wordprocessor" I've tried has been lacking.
Part of the problem is that of the old "bundled system" rather than "integrate
pieces" approach. With a markup language, you have lots of intellectual
overhead learning the language. However, you get your text editor of choice,
which is an expert on manipulating text rather than formatting text. When you
"compile" your document, you call up a program that's an expert on text
formatting. Wordprocessors, so far unsuccessfully as far as I can tell, try
to combine both of these functions into one package. The advantage of the
combination is that, in theory, you get WYSIWYG as you work, rather than
resorting to preview programs or test prints. What I've seen so far, though,
are programs that cut out both document formatting functions and text editing
functions in order to arrive at a thing called a word processor, which may
be easier for the neophyte to use, but is a compromise in both of the real
goals of the program.
What do I find missing from wordprocessors? A number of things. Thing One is
the ability to deal with tree structured documents. When you're working on
technical papers, you may find that Chapter 7 of the Gonzo Computer
Specification is also the core of the Waka-Waka chip specification. It should
be possible to reference the same core text and graphics from within either
main document, and have all references automatically adjusted by the word
processor to correspond to the document you're working on at the time. This
technology has been around for probably 20 years or so, yet I haven't seen
it on a personal computer outside of being something you can do with
include files in TeX.
Then there's something I can only think of a "format abstraction". The form
of entry into the word processor shouldn't be tied to the form of output of
the word processor. If it is, you might as well use a DTP system instead. In
Scribe, I would enter a document as plain text with formatting commands as
necessary. I'd also include bibliography references, index references, etc.
whereever they belonged from the authoring point of view, with absolutely
no regard to where the standard document format would want them. Then, at
the start of the file, I would indicate that this was a "report", and that
I wanted my bibliography in IEEE format, for example. The markup compiler
would reference a database that explained the complete document rules
surrounding "report" (which you could change if you liked), and as well the
form of the IEEE bibliography (eg, do you get superscripts or "[1]" references,
where do they show up in the document, etc.).
Other things were just the logic of the document preparation mechanism. Most
things in Scribe were stack oriented. If you wanted a new kind of text layout,
whether indented, outdented, font change, etc. it would have a start and stop
position. Same basic idea with section headers. Most wordprocessors have
some kind of forms facility, but they tend to be linear rather than structured.
If you're dealing with document trees, linear ordering doesn't work. And it
hurts your thought processes even if you're not using trees ("no let's see,
I need an extra indent on this whole paragraph|page|section|chapter|document,
how many format specifications do I need to change?" If the answer isn't
"one", your wordprocessor isn't playing with a full deck).
--
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
{uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh BIX: hazy
"I could turn you inside-out" R.E.M.
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news.iastate.edu!barrett
From: barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.applications
Subject: Re: WP drops Amiga (was: Re: Word Perfect 5.0 rumors )
Keywords: amiga word perfect when how where ?
Message-ID: <1991Nov9.203934.21091@news.iastate.edu>
Date: 9 Nov 91 20:39:34 GMT
References: <1991Nov8.192133.10834@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
<1991Nov8.185004.16646@news.iastate.edu> <1991Nov8.223052.7578@hubcap.clemson.edu>
Sender: n...@news.iastate.edu (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
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In article <1991Nov8.223052.7...@hubcap.clemson.edu> dd...@hubcap.clemson.edu
(Doug Dyer) writes:
>barr...@iastate.edu (Marc N Barrett) writes:
>> There are no decent alternatives to WordPerfect. None of the
>>current ones have the depth of Amiga WP, and are not even in the same
>>league as MAC WordPerfect 2.1 and MAC Word 4.0.
>
>could you explain yourself? Start a list of features that are lacking in
>say, prowrite, compared to these. I haven't used a wordprocessor on the
>MAC, and never liked wordperfect, so this isnt a challenge but a
>curiosity.
There is no way I ever possibly could compile such a list, and this
is precisely my point. MAC WP and MAC Word both have all of the depth of
of general non-graphical features of Amiga WP, plus a lot of additional
graphics-related features that exceed all of the graphical Amiga word
processors combined.
People who use Amiga word processors are just totally blind to the
features and depth that is actually available in word processors on
other platforms. They think that, just because an Amiga word processor
can mix graphics and text, that it must be as good as any word processor
for any other system, and this just is not so.
If you want to see a good list of the features available in a word
processor such as MAC Word, pick up a good book on the program (the
book by MicroSoft about MAC Word is good example). Take one look at
one of this books and you will realize just how sparsely featured all
of the Amiga word processors really are.
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Doug Dyer * Clemson University * dd...@hubcap.clemson.edu
>Quote 'O Fun: DOS is a bike without the seat. skydive naked
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
| Marc Barrett -MB- | email: barr...@iastate.edu
--------------------------------------------------
MOTD: "If engineers built airplanes the way MBAs build companies,
only 1 out of 10 planes would be flyable at any given moment."