Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!os2man From: os2...@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> Date: 29 Dec 92 13:52:15 GMT Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC Lines: 30 Since no one decided to respond to the initial advertising thread I attempted to start (maybe I tried it in comp.os.os2.misc? I can't remember anymore...), I'll try with another one. Again, I'm interested in reading any ad ideas you can come up with (and I know there are IBMers who read this and are probably interested also). Here's the idea for this one: <Radio ad> "With an operating system that can run all of your DOS, Windows, and OS/2 applications, using your computer is as simple as 1-2-3...or dBase IV... or Ami Pro...(start to fade) or CorelDraw...or Describe...or Microsoft Excel (etc. ad nauseum)" Meanwhile, once the voice starts to fade you get the overdubbed deeper voice (but not too deep) take the foreground: "OS/2 2.0 for your personal computer. Requires an Intel or compatible 80386 or better CPU with 4 megabytes of memory and 30 megabytes hard disk space. To order, call 1-800-3IBMOS2. Product names are trademarks of their respective owners." As with the TV ad last time, this has a two page analogue for a magazine. The first page would be the first voice, with the fade represented by continually shrinking point sizes and the second page would be the deeper voice. I would use a white Helvetica font for the first page on a black background, and have the OS/2 logo in the middle of the second page with the type below it. What is something you can come up with? Cheers, Q -- "If you choose not to decide, you | "My other body is in the shop" - seen still have made a choice" - Rush | on a T-shirt ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Path: sparky!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu! wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec29.155440.23938@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:54:40 GMT Lines: 61 In article <1992Dec29.135215.20...@panix.com> os2...@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) writes: >Since no one decided to respond to the initial advertising thread I attempted >to start (maybe I tried it in comp.os.os2.misc? I can't remember anymore...), >I'll try with another one. Again, I'm interested in reading any ad ideas you >can come up with (and I know there are IBMers who read this and are probably >interested also). Here's the idea for this one: > ><Radio ad> >"With an operating system that can run all of your DOS, Windows, and OS/2 ^^^ Pull this word. >applications, using your computer is as simple as 1-2-3...or dBase IV... >or Ami Pro...(start to fade) or CorelDraw...or Describe...or Microsoft Excel >(etc. ad nauseum)" Meanwhile, once the voice starts to fade you get the >overdubbed deeper voice (but not too deep) take the foreground: "OS/2 2.0 >for your personal computer. Requires an Intel or compatible 80386 or better >CPU with 4 megabytes of memory and 30 megabytes hard disk space. To order, >call 1-800-3IBMOS2. Product names are trademarks of their respective owners." Can't we be honest? OS/2 takes more than 30 megs of HD space and a lot more than 4 megs of RAM. This is part of the problem-- you can't solve it by promoting the same lies. Come on, OS/2 *needs* at least 6 to function -- sluggishly! -- but 4 is a joke (yes, I've tried it post SP). If IBM would allow you to boot w/o the WPS, it might be better, but that pretty much makes the system useless. (There's only so much benefit you get from OS/2 wit one fullscreen prompt). >As with the TV ad last time, this has a two page analogue for a magazine. The >first page would be the first voice, with the fade represented by continually >shrinking point sizes and the second page would be the deeper voice. I would >use a white Helvetica font for the first page on a black background, and have >the OS/2 logo in the middle of the second page with the type below it. Helvetica? Boring. Frankly, if IBM wanted to make an impression, they'd hire the company that's handled Dell's ad campaign for the last year and a half. I particularly liked the "last cheap shot" ones. >What is something you can come up with? > >Cheers, >Q >-- >"If you choose not to decide, you | "My other body is in the shop" - seen > still have made a choice" - Rush | on a T-shirt >------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain. --- Do I even need to point out that my views do not represent those of my employer, institution or relations?
Path: sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu! bcm!lib!oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!jmaynard From: jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <8230@lib.tmc.edu> Date: 29 Dec 1992 16:52:32 GMT References: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> <1992Dec29.155440.23938@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston Lines: 30 Nntp-Posting-Host: oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu In article <1992Dec29.155440.23...@wam.umd.edu> rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: >>"With an operating system that can run all of your DOS, Windows, and OS/2 > ^^^ > Pull this word. You're being unnecessarily pedantic - there's NO OS that meets the criterion you're holding OS/2 up to. > Can't we be honest? OS/2 takes more than 30 megs of HD space Hahahaha. It can be installed quite nicely in less than 30. > and a lot more than 4 megs of RAM. This is part of the problem-- > you can't solve it by promoting the same lies. Come on, OS/2 > *needs* at least 6 to function -- sluggishly! -- but 4 is a It works just fine in 6. This is yet more FUD. > joke (yes, I've tried it post SP). If IBM would allow you to boot > w/o the WPS, it might be better, but that pretty much makes the > system useless. (There's only so much benefit you get from OS/2 > wit one fullscreen prompt). I guess you didn't try SET RUNWORKPLACE=CMD.EXE, then, did you? It allows you to take advantage of everything but the WPS; in particular, you get all of the PM support and multitasking facilities. -- Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity. "Brought to you by the letters O, S, and by the number 2." -- Mike Levis
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Path: sparky!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec29.181546.1151@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> <1992Dec29.155440.23938@wam.umd.edu> <8230@lib.tmc.edu> Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 18:15:46 GMT Lines: 72 In article <8...@lib.tmc.edu> jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes: >In article <1992Dec29.155440.23...@wam.umd.edu> rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: >>>"With an operating system that can run all of your DOS, Windows, and OS/2 >> ^^^ >> Pull this word. > >You're being unnecessarily pedantic - there's NO OS that meets the criterion >you're holding OS/2 up to. So we're agreed that using the word "all" is a lie, right? So *pull the word*. >> Can't we be honest? OS/2 takes more than 30 megs of HD space > >Hahahaha. It can be installed quite nicely in less than 30. Sure, if you choose to forego DOS or Windows support. Note that I am aware that you can do without all of the piggish junk that OS/2 installs--chess, terminal, blah--but OS/2 + DOS + WIN + Swap isgoing to be 30 megs or more-- a LOT more on a 4 or 6 meg system. >> and a lot more than 4 megs of RAM. This is part of the problem-- >> you can't solve it by promoting the same lies. Come on, OS/2 >> *needs* at least 6 to function -- sluggishly! -- but 4 is a > >It works just fine in 6. This is yet more FUD. Bullshit. OS/2 in 6 "works" but it does not "work just fine". It's sluggish, and it runs the DOS and Windows programs promoted above dog slow. Still, like I said, change it to 6 (instead of four) and I would have no objection. Imagine the ridicule MS would get if they promoted Windows 3.1 on a 8 mhz AT with 2 megs of RAM. >> joke (yes, I've tried it post SP). If IBM would allow you to boot >> w/o the WPS, it might be better, but that pretty much makes the >> system useless. (There's only so much benefit you get from OS/2 >> wit one fullscreen prompt). > >I guess you didn't try SET RUNWORKPLACE=CMD.EXE, then, did you? It allows you >to take advantage of everything but the WPS; in particular, you get all of the >PM support and multitasking facilities. OTOH, it also makes the system a pain in the ass to use. IBM needs to come out with an alternative, non-piggish fewer-featured shell if they want to make 4 and 6 meg users really happy. They've done a so/so job with the SP--it certainly performs better under 4 megs than the GA did, but better than "useless garbage" is still not very good. Maybe "bearable to play with but useless for general work" is a good way to describe the SP on 4 megs. >-- >Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can >jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity. > "Brought to you by the letters O, S, and by the number 2." -- Mike Levis -- Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain. --- Do I even need to point out that my views do not represent those of my employer, institution or relations?
Path: sparky!uunet!usc!cs.utexas.edu!bcm!lib!oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu!jmaynard From: jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <8237@lib.tmc.edu> Date: 30 Dec 1992 14:02:28 GMT References: <1992Dec29.155440.23938@wam.umd.edu> <8230@lib.tmc.edu> <1992Dec29.181546.1151@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@lib.tmc.edu Organization: UT Health Science Center Houston Lines: 50 Nntp-Posting-Host: oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu In article <1992Dec29.181546.1...@wam.umd.edu> rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: > So we're agreed that using the word "all" is a lie, right? So > *pull the word*. As I said, you're being unnecessarily pedantic, especially in light of other OS ads which say the same thing. I'll buy that only if you'll argue the same thing for all other OSes out there. > Sure, if you choose to forego DOS or Windows support. Note that > I am aware that you can do without all of the piggish junk that > OS/2 installs--chess, terminal, blah--but OS/2 + DOS + WIN + Swap > isgoing to be 30 megs or more-- a LOT more on a 4 or 6 meg > system. Nope. Several other folks have already posted that they do just fine in a 30 meg partition. I did a full install, and fit it all into a 40 meg partition with 9 meg left over. > Bullshit. OS/2 in 6 "works" but it does not "work just fine". > It's sluggish, and it runs the DOS and Windows programs promoted > above dog slow. Still, like I said, change it to 6 (instead of > four) and I would have no objection. Imagine the ridicule MS > would get if they promoted Windows 3.1 on a 8 mhz AT with 2 megs > of RAM. Again, other folks have already refuted this one. OS/2 works just fine in 6 meg. [about SET RUNWORKPLACE=CMD.EXE] > OTOH, it also makes the system a pain in the ass to use. IBM > needs to come out with an alternative, non-piggish fewer-featured > shell if they want to make 4 and 6 meg users really happy. How does it make the system a pain in the ass to use? If you want GUI functionality, run WPS. If you don't, don't run it. If you don't want it, then don't complain that you don't get it. > They've done a so/so job with the SP--it certainly performs better > under 4 megs than the GA did, but better than "useless garbage" > is still not very good. Maybe "bearable to play with but useless > for general work" is a good way to describe the SP on 4 megs. IYHO, please. Others have reported that they're happy with how it runs in 4 meg. [BTW, quoting others' .signatures is a useless waste of bandwidth.] -- Jay Maynard, EMT-P, K5ZC, PP-ASEL | Never ascribe to malice that which can jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu | adequately be explained by stupidity. "Brought to you by the letters O, S, and by the number 2." -- Mike Levis
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Path: sparky!uunet!munnari.oz.au!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!eagle! lims01.lerc.nasa.gov!scdorcy From: scdo...@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41 Sender: n...@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov Nntp-Posting-Host: lims01.lerc.nasa.gov Organization: NASA Lewis Research Center References: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> <1992Dec29.155440.23938@wam.umd.edu> <8230@lib.tmc.edu> <1992Dec29.181546.1151@wam.umd.edu> Date: 30 Dec 1992 18:07 EST Lines: 23 In article <1992Dec29.181546.1...@wam.umd.edu>, rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes... >In article <8...@lib.tmc.edu> jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) writes: >>In article <1992Dec29.155440.23...@wam.umd.edu> rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: >>>>"With an operating system that can run all of your DOS, Windows, and OS/2 >>> ^^^ >>> Pull this word. >> >>You're being unnecessarily pedantic - there's NO OS that meets the criterion >>you're holding OS/2 up to. > So we're agreed that using the word "all" is a lie, right? So > *pull the word*. Okay, we'll pull the word "all". How's this sound as a replacement: ...with an operating system that runs more DOS programs than MS DOS 5, more Windows programs than Windows 3.1, and all OS/2 programs. Is this better?
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Path: sparky!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu! sun-barr!ames!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec31.000144.10417@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <8230@lib.tmc.edu> <1992Dec29.181546.1151@wam.umd.edu> <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 00:01:44 GMT Lines: 48 In article <30DEC199218072...@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> scdo...@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov (JAMES DORCEY) writes: >In article <1992Dec29.181546.1...@wam.umd.edu>, rsrod...@wam.umd.edu >(Yamanari) writes... >>In article <8...@lib.tmc.edu> jmayn...@oac.hsc.uth.tmc.edu (Jay Maynard) >> So we're agreed that using the word "all" is a lie, right? So >> *pull the word*. > >Okay, we'll pull the word "all". How's this sound as a replacement: > > ...with an operating system that runs more DOS programs than MS DOS 5, > more Windows programs than Windows 3.1, and all OS/2 programs. > >Is this better? > Let me ask: Is it everyones opinion that OS/2 is sucha bad product that it cannot stand on it's merits alone and that we have to buffer these merits with blatant lies? 1) OS/2 does NOT run more DOS programs than DOS5. If it does, I must be doing something wrong. For instance, Autocad doesn't seem to run so well. Neither does Comanche:Maximum Overkill. 2) OS/2 might run more Windows programs than 3.1 if you include ancient programs and cheezy shareware, but I don't and neither do most customers. I think it's a little dishonest to pretend that the ability to run ancient 2.x programs outweighs the ability to run currently released applications. In fact, incompatibility with unupdated programs is almost *assumed*, while compatibility with all present releases -- at the very least -- is implied by the word "more". 3) Some older 16 bit OS/2 programs broke under OS/2 2.0, or so I've heard. I do not stand by this last statement, but I am almost certain it is true. *Why* is it necessary to lie? If you're going to put a qualifier in there, put an HONEST one, like "most". I prefer not confusing people and just omitting the qualifier altogether. -- Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain. --- Boycott == censorship == cowardice --- Do I even need to point out that my views do not represent those of my employer, institution or relations?
Path: sparky!uunet!pipex!bnr.co.uk!uknet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!cs.joensuu.fi! jahonen From: jaho...@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec31.062803.26739@cs.joensuu.fi> Date: 31 Dec 92 06:28:03 GMT References: <8230@lib.tmc.edu> <1992Dec29.181546.1151@wam.umd.edu> <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec31.000144.10417@wam.umd.edu> Organization: University of Joensuu Lines: 14 rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: > Let me ask: Is it everyones opinion that OS/2 is sucha bad > product that it cannot stand on it's merits alone and that we > have to buffer these merits with blatant lies? > (stuff deleted) > *Why* is it necessary to lie? If you're going to put a qualifier > in there, put an HONEST one, like "most". I prefer not confusing > people and just omitting the qualifier altogether. Here in finland most of the OS/2 adds say something like "most" or "almost every" etc. And they mention 6 MB of memory and 80 MB disk... Actually the memory requirement is that 6 MB and the proposed is 8 MB.
Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Path: sparky!uunet!haven.umd.edu!wam.umd.edu!rsrodger From: rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec31.141622.6280@wam.umd.edu> Sender: use...@wam.umd.edu (USENET News system) Nntp-Posting-Host: rac1.wam.umd.edu Organization: University of Maryland, College Park References: <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec31.000144.10417@wam.umd.edu> <1992Dec31.062803.26739@cs.joensuu.fi> Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1992 14:16:22 GMT Lines: 29 In article <1992Dec31.062803.26...@cs.joensuu.fi> jaho...@cs.joensuu.fi (Jarmo Ahonen) writes: >rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: > >> Let me ask: Is it everyones opinion that OS/2 is sucha bad >> product that it cannot stand on it's merits alone and that we >> have to buffer these merits with blatant lies? >> >(stuff deleted) >> *Why* is it necessary to lie? If you're going to put a qualifier >> in there, put an HONEST one, like "most". I prefer not confusing >> people and just omitting the qualifier altogether. > >Here in finland most of the OS/2 adds say something like "most" or >"almost every" etc. And they mention 6 MB of memory and 80 MB disk... >Actually the memory requirement is that 6 MB and the proposed is 8 MB. Well, let's hear it for IBM Finland! <Doesn't change the situation in America and elsewhere though. .. Maybe a letter to IBM saying how great the finland ad/packaging is would get the point across...> -- Blaming society for your problems is like blaming clouds for rain. --- Boycott == censorship == cowardice --- Do I even need to point out that my views do not represent those of my employer, institution or relations?
Path: sparky!uunet!gatech!concert!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!os2man From: os2...@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec31.150806.17631@panix.com> Date: 31 Dec 92 15:08:06 GMT References: <1992Dec29.135215.20084@panix.com> <1992Dec31.101220.19875@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC Lines: 49 In <1992Dec31.101220.19...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> mle...@ringer.cs.utsa.edu (Mike Levis) (OS/2) writes: Finally, someone decides to respond with something that the original purpose of this thread intended to provoke. To the rest of you, I didn't ask for a critique of my wording (big #%@!ing deal about the word "all"...drop it? Ok. If that idea even gets considered for publication, much less having a wording dispute, then I'll be surprise.). Can't you find better ways to add to this newsgroup? Yes, I realized that 4M RAM and 30M DASD was pushing things quite a bit. However, you'll note that nowhere in there did I state it was a full installation. In fact, with the default installation, minus some of the more useless stuff (like the games...I did say useless, not "funless"), OS/2 fits nicely in 30M of DASD. Also, I claim that 4M RAM and 30M DASD is *not* unrealistic for any computer purchased in 1992; given the Microsoft Windows explosion in 1991 and 1992, I also claim that there were significant numbers of computer purchased during this timeframe. So nyah, nyah nyah nyah, nyah. :-P Here's the next mag ad idea I came up with while stuck in traffic last night: (big bold font) "Why put off until tomorrow what you can do today?" (not-so-big font) At IBM, we believe that you shouldn't have to wait until tomorrow to use new technology, especially when it is already available today. (insert OS/2 logo) (caption) "Tomorrow's technology today" (fine print) OS/2 2.0 with Crash Protection(tm) provides all that you need with its capability to run any DOS(tm), Windows(tm), or OS/2(tm) application. Minimum hardware required: Intel 80386 or compatbile CPU with 4 megabytes of memory. An 80486 or compatible CPU with 6 megabytes of memory is recommended. To order, call 1-800-3IBMOS2. Available on 5.25 and 3.5 inch media. ------------------------ How 'bout the rest of you come up with some of your own ideas instead of concentrating on taking a scalpel to my admittedly non-professional idea? Cheers, Q -- "If you choose not to decide, you | "My other body is in the shop" - seen still have made a choice" - Rush | on a T-shirt ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!os2man From: os2...@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Truth in advertising (Was: More advertising) Message-ID: <1992Dec31.191854.29943@panix.com> Date: 31 Dec 92 19:18:54 GMT References: <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec31.000144.10417@wam.umd.edu> <1992Dec31.062803.26739@cs.joensuu.fi> <1992Dec31.141622.6280@wam.umd.edu> Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC Lines: 20 In <1992Dec31.141622.6...@wam.umd.edu> rsrod...@wam.umd.edu (Yamanari) writes: > Well, let's hear it for IBM Finland! > <Doesn't change the situation in America and elsewhere > though. .. Maybe a letter to IBM saying how great the > finland ad/packaging is would get the point across...> I doubt it. *Many* people both inside and outside IBM screamed about how poor IBM's advertising for OS/2 is and we all see how much that helped. Also, please note the subject line change; this is to avoid confusion with what the original thread's purpose is. Cheers, Q -- "If you choose not to decide, you | "My other body is in the shop" - seen still have made a choice" - Rush | on a T-shirt ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!panix!os2man From: os2...@panix.com (Larry Salomon Jr.) Newsgroups: comp.os.os2.advocacy Subject: Re: More advertising Message-ID: <1992Dec31.192312.240@panix.com> Date: 31 Dec 92 19:23:12 GMT References: <30DEC199218072507@lims01.lerc.nasa.gov> <1992Dec31.000144.10417@wam.umd.edu> <1992Dec31.062803.26739@cs.joensuu.fi> <1992Dec31.141622.6280@wam.umd.edu> Organization: PANIX Public Access Unix, NYC Lines: 24 Along the lines of the "Windows-in-a-trashcan" idea (good suggestion, whomever did it...I seem to have forgotten), here's what I came up with: <Two page mag ad> <Page 1> <Big bold font> "If you could buy a Porche at the same price as a Volkswagen, which would you buy?" <Pictured: a balance, a la the goddess Athena, with "Porche" on one side and "Volkswagen" on the other and a bright question mark in front of it> <Page 2> "...then why would you buy Microsoft Windows?" <Pictured: a top view of a steel garbage can like the one used outdoors, with a Microsoft Windows 3.1 box sitting alone at the bottom> Cheers, Q -- "If you choose not to decide, you | "My other body is in the shop" - seen still have made a choice" - Rush | on a T-shirt ------------------------------------------------------------------------