From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/19 Message-ID: <413aq2$nqp@everest.pinn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 108414944 organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy I was an Amiga user from 1986 to late 1994. It was the first multimedia computer. The first multitasking O/S to gain public acceptance. And it was the best computer money could buy, at a fraction of the price of PC's. So friggin' what? The Amiga started out well enough. The A1000 (all 250,000 of them!) sold well. The A500 became the next C64 and sold in the millions. The A2000 was probably the best Amiga ever made in terms of expandibility and ruggedness. But CBM killed the Amiga by overpricing it. OVERPRICING you say? How can this be true? Well, when I purchased my A2000 in 1990, I paid $1400. It was considered a great price for an A2000. But wait! The A500 was selling for less than $600 at that time. What did I get in my A2000 for the extra $800? Lets see...a bunch of card slots. A bigger power supply. 512K more ram. A detached keyboard. A heavy metal case. Hmmm. Can you say PRICE GOUGING? Do you think CBM could have priced it for under $1000? How many more would have been sold? Commodore had another problem right from the start: The audience for the Amiga was (IMHO) mostly old C64 and 128 owners, kids, and people who knew an Amiga owner. Outside of that, there were few "outside" purchasers of the machine. Without advertising, how can there be? How many places could you even BUY an Amiga? Its not like it had this big visibility thing. No advertising+few dealers=few sales. Now the Amiga faithfull are sporting woodies because the Amiga is again available. Well, ESCOM is not about to make a push into north america. Sure, there will be north american sales. But only to those die hard Amiga fans who MUST have a new computer to run some software or hardware they NEED to have, or to those who have some misguided loyalty to a dead idol. I had two A1000's, an A2000, and an A1200. I loved them. I miss them. I was in withdrawl for the first year I did not have an Amiga. I still miss running Arctic Fox, One on One, and other early great Amiga programs. But its gone, and most of us have moved on. To those of you who want a new Amiga, please ask yourself this: WHY? Its NOT going to set the world on fire. Its just too damn late. The software is no longer beeing written for it. The hardware is slowed down to a trickle. Sure, Win95 is an overgrown pig of an OS. Sure, Microsloth Word is a massive slow hard drive eater. Yes, the O/S needs gobs of RAM to run properly. But my Amiga did not run DOOM. It did not run multimedia encyclopedias. And, in Virginia Beach, the largest city in Virginia, there was no longer a single Amiga dealer. Where do I buy things? Mail order? It gets old. If you Amiga does what you want/need, then by all means USE IT. ENJOY IT. But before you plunk down $$$ in a misguided "vote" to bring the Amiga back to life by a company that is not going to push it here, think real hard about what you can get in the PC world for the same amount. I despise my PC's OS compared to AmigaDOS. I hate the way I have to worry about IRQ's, INI's, DLL's etc. But I love the way it looks on the world wide web, or when its running DOOM, or when its running Encarta. Intelligent replies/flames are invited/encouraged. ____________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________
From: Terry_Palf...@mindlink.bc.ca (Terry Palfrey) Subject: Re: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/19 Message-ID: <76546-808817095@mindlink.bc.ca>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 108414967 distribution: world organization: MIND LINK! - British Columbia, Canada newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Msg-ID: <413aq2$...@everest.pinn.net> Posted: 19 Aug 1995 00:21:22 GMT [Comrade Gorby shares with us his AMIGA participation and views on price gouging and the brilliant future of the clone.....] AMIGA owners are going to spend big bucks to raise the AMIGA from the dead? A misguided vote for a dead platform? Sorry to hear that you were unable to find sufficient uses for your machines or that your software choices failed to hold your interest. Commodore did kill the AMIGA, in many ways. Escom is bringing it back. It may even upgrade it, but until then there really is nothing out there that even resembles what the AMIGA is or represents. Nice troll though. Terry
From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: Re: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/21 Message-ID: <419047$cbt@everest.pinn.net> X-Deja-AN: 108524210 distribution: world references: <76546-808817095@mindlink.bc.ca> organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Glad you liked my "troll!" Nobody has flamed me, and I have recieved a few good Email replies. Believe me, I would like nothing more than for Escom to turn out a killer new Amiga. But look at the history: In 1985 the Amiga had a multitasking OS, PC's had MSdos 2.11/3. The Amiga had 4,096 colors. Most PC's had 4 color 320x200 CGA and 640x200 monochrome, or just monochrome. An EGA system was $5,000 JUST FOR THE MONITOR AND VIDEO CARD! The Amiga had a 7.14mhz 68000 with three custom CPU's. The top of the line PC was an 8mhz 286 operating on its own. The Amiga had four channel digital stereo sound, the PC could only make gronks and beeps. The Amiga came with a mouse, pc's did not use them yet. The Amiga used 880K 3.5 drives, the PC was dominated by 5.25 360K drives. An Amiga with 20mb HD would set you back $2,500. A 286pc with EGA and 20mb HD would be over $7,500. With this kind of price/performance advantage, you would have to be an IDIOT to buy a PC. And millions of idiots did. But how could they know any better? Did you see Amiga advertisements on TV, radio, in the newspapers and magazines? There was a small TV blitz with the Amiga bouncing ball changing the world into color. And a small print ad campaign that was not much better, and of short duration. But most of the print ads were directed towards current Commodore 64 owners, who snatched the Amiga up. I was one of them. But you need to EXPAND your audience and not limit it to current brand owners! This is all ancient history now. The problem is TODAY. Most of the Amiga faithfull were already wavering when CBM died. Software for the Amiga was impressive, especially considering that most of it was written so it could run on a 1mb A500! But those of us with higher end machines (like my A2000 with 68030, Flicker Fixer, 11mb RAM, 600mb SCSI, Genlock, the list goes on) were "stuck" running programs that were optimized for lesser machines. Problems soon developed, conflicts with the OS and CPU! Booting my machine became a laundry list of compatibility questions: Should I boot on the 68000 or 68030? If I boot with the 030, can I run the CPU's cache with this program? Will the program run under KS 2.04, or do I need to use 1.3 or 1.1? Will I have to disable all my extra RAM because the program goes wild with more than 512K? (shades of VIC-20 ram relocation problems!) Will this program run with my hard drive, or do I need to reboot with a floppy? It was enough to drive me and other Amiga owners insane!!! The PC has grown leaps and bounds in the past few years. Cheap CD-ROMS are enabling PC's to run some pretty incredible video. I showed my PC to a bunch of Amiga buddies, and you could almost see tears in their eyes! I ran NovaStorm, Strike Commander CD, Encarta, Rebel Assault, Doom II, F-14 fleet defender, Word, Excel, and my WWW browser. They were all pretty much devastated, and felt like they had been caught worshipping a false god. I could understand, I went through the same feelings the first time I saw a 486 run software that had been written to take advantage of its power. There is nothing more ridiculous than some guy with a 1mb 68000 A500 with no hard drive telling PC owners how his machine can run rings around a 486. I used to say those things about my '030 A2000. Maybe it was true. But after I saw some of these CD-ROM based games run on a 486, I started to realize a few things: *My computer is a means to an end, and the end is running software. *The O/S may make running and using the machine easier, but once you are INSIDE an application, the O/S does not make a difference. *You should own the box that runs the software you want. Unless you are an avid Genlock user or video toaster owner, or are into rending ray traced video all the time, I no longer feel the Amiga has the lead in hardware or software in ANY OTHER ARENA. *That last bastion of Amiga superiority, desktop video, is going to be eclipsed pretty soon. Silicon is cheap, and there are many brilliant minds hard at work in bringing toaster-like abilities to the PC. They are not there yet. But anyone who thinks the PC wont get there soon is seriously deluding themselves. Sheer numbers of owners coupled with R&D spread out over those huge numbers will make PC video cheap cheap cheap! Look at whats happened with PC video cards! You can get a 16.7 million color local bus card for less than $70! Its called MASS PRODUCTION, something Amiga accessory hardware has found it difficult to attain. If only 1/2 of 1% of PC owners buy a particular PC card, that will sell many times more product than if 25% of every Amiga owner who ever existed purchased the same Amiga product. How much is an Amiga IDE card? They are only TWELVE STINKING DOLLARS for the PC, and that same card will have dual HD, dual floppy, two serial, one parallel, and a joystick jack to boot! Thats what MASS PRODUCTION does. You may say you dont want PC IDE, and thats OK, but I am only trying to illistrate what it is the Amiga is up against. When it came out it cost less and did more. Now it will cost more and do less except for these few exceptions I have noted...and those will soon be gone. I miss my AmigaDOS. But I am trying not to look back. ______________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________
From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: Re: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/26 Message-ID: <41m9ku$qt7@everest.pinn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 108827864 references: <413aq2$nqp@everest.pinn.net> <DDtD5w.5B5@exeter.ac.uk> organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy In article <DDtD5w....@exeter.ac.uk>, kc...@central.susx.ac.uk says... > >Comrade_Gorby posted the following: > >: To those of you who want a new Amiga, please ask yourself this: WHY? >: Its NOT going to set the world on fire. Its just too damn late. >With a great accelerator card, it will perform as well as a DX4 or >Pentium. An Amiga accelerator card COSTS AS MUCH as a Pentium motherboard with a CPU...about $500 for a Pentium 75, upgradable to a Pentium 133mhz. >: The software is no longer beeing written for it. The hardware is >Thats just 100% lies. For every commercial Amiga program being written now, there are at least 100 PC programs being written. >: Yes, the O/S needs gobs of RAM to run properly. But my Amiga >: did not run DOOM. It did not run multimedia encyclopedias. And, >so f****ing what?? the whole world does not revolve around one game. and >anyway, within the year, the Amiga community will be SICK of DOOM clones >on the Amiga Only had to wait two years, right? I have a CD with over 900 doom levels. Will the Amiga doom clones run it? >as for encyclopedias, there is a CDROM based one that runs on an Amiga >equiped with a CDROM drive - Groliers -> Yes, Amigas can have CDROM >drives. What year edition? I have used the Groliers on the Amiga. (Yes, I had an Amiga CD ROM drive.) Not near as good as the PC version, and the PC version of Groliers is the LAMEST of all the ones available. You talk about a four year old CD made for the CDTV and try to compare that to Comptons or Encarta for the PC? you have GOT to be kidding! >: If you Amiga does what you want/need, then by all means USE IT. ENJOY >: IT. But before you plunk down $$$ in a misguided "vote" to bring the > >: amount. I despise my PC's OS compared to AmigaDOS. I hate the way >: I have to worry about IRQ's, INI's, DLL's etc. But I love the way >: it looks on the world wide web, or when its running DOOM, or when >: its running Encarta. > >so, just a few little apps allow you to put up with the aweful OS? >You like to suffer with the machine just so it can number crunch on a >few apps? >Do yourself a favour, have a look at the new WWW browser coming for the >Amiga. Its called IBrowse. >I myself like being able to view pictures in a plethora of resolutions >and colours whilst rendering the next one. >I like playing Gloom whilst my BBS is running in the background. >I like having sound as standard, and its got good bass, not tinny shit. >I also look forward to seeing results from Amiga coders, who have far >more skill and really like the machine they work on. Its better to haver >a machine with character and soeed, rather than a number cruncher >sitting in a large case with a monitor on top for decoration and >spending half of the time hating the machine, rather than half of the >time tinkering/hacking around with it. Alan, I said the same things you did. I got tired of fighting a war that has been lost for five years. I got tired of going to the mall and seeing shelf upon shelf of wonderful programs I could not run. I had one of the most awesome Amiga setups people had ever seen... two of them as a matter of fact, PARnetted together. But the software had slowed to a trickle, PC's started to run better and more powerful software, and I switched. I was a Win95 beta tester. It is not the end-all OS, but it IS HOT. I ran OS/2 for a while, but I got tired of being the UNDERDOG again. I have learned my lesson. I am sticking with the mainstream. >alan ______________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________
From: gre...@execpc.com (Gregg Belli) Subject: Re: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/28 Message-ID: <3919.6448T398T99@execpc.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 108997826 references: <413aq2$nqp@everest.pinn.net> organization: Alpha.net -- Milwaukee, WI newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy >To those of you who want a new Amiga, please ask yourself this: WHY? >Its NOT going to set the world on fire. Its just too damn late. I don't agree that anyone can say it's too late for the Amiga. My reason: I STILL can't get one. In virtually all respects NOTHING has happened with the Amiga yet. The Amiga's future may not work, but it needs to be given a future before it can't work. >The software is no longer beeing written for it. The hardware is >slowed down to a trickle. Sure, Win95 is an overgrown pig of an What software is no longer being written? I never really saw all that much software being written in the first place. I know the software I have been using is still being written/updated. Certainly that says that the Amiga is my computer. I love the OS and the availiable software meets my needs. Understandable what meets my needs won't meet everyone's needs. That's why there are other computers and OS's. I don't think that I am the only person that is relatively (NOT completely) satisfied with their Amiga so new machines are probably going to sell. Not in the PC number range, but they will sell something. >OS. Sure, Microsloth Word is a massive slow hard drive eater. >Yes, the O/S needs gobs of RAM to run properly. But my Amiga >did not run DOOM. It did not run multimedia encyclopedias. And, >in Virginia Beach, the largest city in Virginia, there was no longer >a single Amiga dealer. Where do I buy things? Mail order? It gets >old. I hear that! I'm lucky to have Safe Harbor Computers within 30-40 miles (no big distance for *me*) To become mainstream the Amiga needs to be availiable in the mainstream. >If you Amiga does what you want/need, then by all means USE IT. ENJOY >IT. But before you plunk down $$$ in a misguided "vote" to bring the >Amiga back to life by a company that is not going to push it here, >think real hard about what you can get in the PC world for the same >amount. I despise my PC's OS compared to AmigaDOS. I hate the way >I have to worry about IRQ's, INI's, DLL's etc. But I love the way >it looks on the world wide web, or when its running DOOM, or when >its running Encarta. As long as I have seen/participated in OS and computer wars I have had one big question I have never seen answered. What most people criticise the Amiga for is a lack of quality software. I agree. However, many (not all) people I have seen post/talked to have praised/admired the AmigaOS. Now, if the OS isn't THE most important piece of software any computer can run I have no clue. Something I hear quite often from PC users is 'I hate windows, but XXYY runs under it.' I can't help but see their point. >Intelligent replies/flames are invited/encouraged. Well, I hope I am seeming intelligent enough...:) I'll try to sum up my feelings as best I can: (gulp!) I fell that for any meaningful conversation to happen fanatics on both sides of the fence must be ignored. I consider Windows to be the 'standard' PC general public OS. It's what people hear about. That is my grain of salt to be taken (or whatever) for my following viewpoint: Consider this: AmigaOS has many strong points. AmigaOS has many weak points. Windows has many strong points. Windows has many weak points. Windows is developed by a company that can market! Therefore, Windows has a HUGE user base. Therefore, Windows has a HUGE software base. Therefore, Windows is the best/most obvious choice for just about everyone. I just wonder what would have/will happen if the AmigaOS ever had/gets proper marketing like Windows has. Gregg Belli (Amiga user. (hopefully) NOT a fanatic) >____________________________________________________________ > Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. > A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government > in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop >______________________________________________________________
From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: Re: The Amiga died in 1991... Date: 1995/08/30 Message-ID: <420kof$20v@everest.pinn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 109077185 references: <413aq2$nqp@everest.pinn.net> <3919.6448T398T99@execpc.com> organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy In article <3919.6448T398...@execpc.com>, gre...@execpc.com says... >Windows is developed by a company that can market! Therefore, Windows has a >HUGE user base. Therefore, Windows has a HUGE software base. Therefore, >Windows is the best/most obvious choice for just about everyone. > >I just wonder what would have/will happen if the AmigaOS ever had/gets proper >marketing like Windows has. > >Gregg Belli (Amiga user. (hopefully) NOT a fanatic) Unfortunatly, AmigaDOS will NEVER have the marketing Windows has. Heck, even if ESCOM wanted to, they just dont have the financial resources. I now have the RELEASE version of Win95. Its pretty damn hot! No, its not as compact as AmigaDOS, but then it DOES have a lot of drivers built in...! And huge hard drives are now cheap! ______________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________
From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: The Amiga DID die in 1991...get used to it! Date: 1995/09/19 Message-ID: <43n41p$js7@everest.pinn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 110382628 organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy Yes, I am the original author of the Amiga Died in 1991 thread... many of you did appreciate my logic rather than just unadulterated flame bait. Here it goes again... I have been a computer owner since 1982. Many MANY computer systems have come, flared up like some kind of candle, and then died a smoking death. Do any of these arguments ring a bell?: 1. CP/M does all I need to do. Its mature, has a wide variety of software, and its supported. 2. Apple II forever! My Apple (II, IIe, IIc, IIgs) does it all, has lots of software, its all I need! 3. My Vic 20 is the greatest. The 64 is just like a Vic with more RAM. Add RAM to my Vic, it will do EVERYTHING you can do with your 64! 4. Oh yeah? Who CARES Timex quit making my TS1000? It makes a GREAT doorstop! (they do, too!) 4. My Adam is awesome. Unlike your crummy computer, My Adam comes with a printer and has 80K of RAM! 5. The TI-99/4a is GREAT! Why would you buy a toy from Commodore or Atari? Those are game machines! 6. The 520st is faster, cheaper, comes with more RAM, has a better monitor, and a better looking operating system. The Amiga has cheesy icons. Who needs to multitask? 5. My Commodore (64, 128, 128d) is great, I dont know why you want an Amiga. There is no software support, and I have every kind of program I could ever use. History is repeating itself. The fans of the dead machine cry out how their machine is superior, while support falls from the face of the earth. Meanwhile, quietly, people jump ship every day, and the cries of the faithfull settle down to mere echoes of what was. And people like myself, fondly, look back on what we had, and how much fun it all was. I had a Timex, Vic, 64, 128, 128d, Apple IIe, Amiga 1000, 2000, 1200. Guys, I have been there! Its time to give up. Maybe if you live in the old world you are good for a little while longer while Escom milks the carcass of Commodore for the next couple years. But can any of you HONESTLY say you think the Amiga is going to capture the hearts, minds, and dollars (franks, marks, kroner, etc.) of the computer buying public? Lucid flames/replies expected and desired. ______________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________
From: dw...@pinn.net (Comrade_Gorby) Subject: Re: The Amiga DID die in 1991...get used to it! Date: 1995/09/21 Message-ID: <43qqlc$dvh@everest.pinn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 110444752 references: <43n41p$js7@everest.pinn.net> <43ocpe$gic@natasha.rmii.com> content-type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII organization: Soviet_Government_in_Exile mime-version: 1.0 newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga.advocacy In article <43ocpe$...@natasha.rmii.com>, krist...@rainbow.rmii.com says... >Why should I change so I can let Bill Gates FUCK ME UP THE ASS THE WAY HE >IS DOING TO YOU!!! Well, Bill Gates did not make my 486. He just makes the dominant OS for it. I had WB 2.04, it was not until Win95 that I got an OS that makes me as happy as my Amiga did. Frankly, Win95 is a better OS. Unlike you, I have owned and used both. >I think you are just feeling stupid for abanding the Amiga and are just >trying to justfy your STUPIDITY! I dont feel stupid at all. I enjoy being able to buy lots of great software, things my Amiga could only dream about. >Only if users jump ship the Amiga will die so telling people to jump will >kill it. In no one jumps ship the Amiga will live forever! So ONLY >STUPID dumb shits that move to the Bill Gates auto raping machine (the >PC) can kill the future of alternitive computing. Thank you for adding a missing argument to my original post! Yes, if Amiga owners keep using their machines, it will never die. Right now, someone is pounding away on their Timex/Adam/Vic20/C64/Apple II, and having a great time. More power to them! No computer ever looses its original functionality. >I WILL NOT PURCHASE ANY MICROSOFT PRODUCT EVER!!!!!!! You WILL eat your words on this one. I guarantee it! Never is a LONG LONG time...I felt the same way you did not too long ago! >Ya I guess you get what you ask for (FLAMES). I won't post any other >responses to any of your stupid SHEEP messages again. Its OK, I enjoy the debate! Note that unlike other great Amiga haters who do some "superior dance" because they had the "wisdom" to jump ship, I truly and honestly do MISS my Amiga. Its OS had CHARACTER and CHARISMA, and did not take up 40mb of HD space! Windows, even Windows95, clogs its arteries with .DLL and .VxD files, pc programs are huge pigs of space hogging blubber code. But 1.6gb hard drives are down to almost 300 bucks now... ______________________________________________________________ Gravity. Its not just a good idea. ITS THE LAW. A message from the Minister of Science, Soviet Government in Exile BBS, 804-471-5728. Comrade Gorby - Sysop ______________________________________________________________