Tech Insider					     Technology and Trends

From jason at lunkwill.org  Fri Mar 25 12:06:28 2005
From: jason at lunkwill.org (Jason Holt)
Date: Fri Mar 25 12:06:36 2005
Subject: [uug] Kick-banned / last request (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0503251905580.32341-100000@potato.zayda.com>



---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:44:41 -0600
From: Michael Halcrow < mike@halcrow.us>
[...]
Subject: Kick-banned / last request

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 11:13:39AM -0700, Erin Sharmahd wrote:
> At the request of the uug-officers, you have been removed and banned
> from uug-list for swearing in this email.

The first time I left the group, it wasn't with enough of a bang.  And
to be truthful, it wasn't really characteristic.  I'm glad it gets to
end this way instead.  :-)

After years of participation in the group, I suppose that my one last
request from y'all, if you haven't already done it, would be to send a
note out on the list letting everyone know that I've been kick-banned,
and that anything they intend for me to read should be sent to my
personal address, as I have no interest in ever resubscribing and I
won't be reading the archives.  There are plenty of other OSS forums
now in which I need to devote my time and efforts, I'm willing to
accept that I'm just not BYU-approved material.

If any of you are in the area and want a tour of Austin and/or the
LTC, feel free to drop me a line.

Thanks,
Mike

.___________________________________________________________________.
"My Love is my Truth, and I will burn in Hell for it."
 - Heloise

From sjansen at buscaluz.org  Fri Mar 25 12:26:43 2005
From: sjansen at buscaluz.org (Stuart Jansen)
Date: Fri Mar 25 12:26:27 2005
Subject: [uug] Kick-banned / last request (fwd)
In-Reply-To: < Pine.LNX.4.44.0503251905580.32341-100000@potato.zayda.com>
References: < Pine.LNX.4.44.0503251905580.32341-100000@potato.zayda.com>
Message-ID: < 1111778803.8938.42.camel@vision>

On Fri, 2005-03-25 at 19:06 +0000, Jason Holt wrote:
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Date: Fri, 25 Mar 2005 12:44:41 -0600
> From: Michael Halcrow < mike@halcrow.us>
> [...]
> Subject: Kick-banned / last request
> 
> On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 11:13:39AM -0700, Erin Sharmahd wrote:
> > At the request of the uug-officers, you have been removed and banned
> > from uug-list for swearing in this email.

Exsqueeze me?!

I know we joke about this being a dictatorship, but that was an
inappropriate decision. Micheal was a long time contributor with many
interesting and useful things to say. Even if he hadn't been, a warning
of some type would have been more appropriate than banning him without
consulting the group. His language may have pushed the envelope for a
BYU setting, but I've heard it uttered on campus and the person wasn't
stoned or run off.

I think it's time we had official policy on list subscriptions and
dealing with problems. Autocratic banning just isn't appropriate,
especially for such a minor offense.

-- 
Stuart Jansen                   e-mail/jabber: sjansen@buscaluz.org

"XML is like violence: if it doesn't solve your problem, you aren't
using enough of it." - Chris Maden

From amcnabb at mcnabbs.org  Fri Mar 25 15:06:21 2005
From: amcnabb at mcnabbs.org (Andrew McNabb)
Date: Fri Mar 25 15:06:31 2005
Subject: [uug] Kick-banned / last request (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <1111778803.8938.42.camel@vision>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0503251905580.32341-100000@potato.zayda.com>
	<1111778803.8938.42.camel@vision>
Message-ID: <20050325220621.GB17661@mcnabbs.org>

On Fri, Mar 25, 2005 at 12:26:43PM -0700, Stuart Jansen wrote:
> I know we joke about this being a dictatorship, but that was an
> inappropriate decision. Micheal was a long time contributor with many
> interesting and useful things to say. Even if he hadn't been, a
> warning of some type would have been more appropriate than banning him
> without consulting the group. His language may have pushed the
> envelope for a BYU setting, but I've heard it uttered on campus and
> the person wasn't stoned or run off.

I'd like to make a few comments about this topic.

First, the decision was made among all of the officers, and was
unanimous (this includes tuxgirl and all the rest, for those of you who
are trying to turn this into a campaigning thread).

Second, it's not a permanent ban.  This is the only way to knock someone
on the head and say, "Look, we take this seriously."  If Michael would
email us and say, "I'm sorry.  I realize that it was inappropriate.  I
won't do it again," we would reinstate him.  In times past (since before
I was a UUG officer--check the list archives for November 2003), this
was the same action taken, and the reason is that people that write
offensive emails tend to do it several times in a row.  We have to have
a way to tell them to chill.

If any of you read Michael's response, you can see a really bad attitude
("I'm willing to accept that I'm just not BYU-approved material").  I
think he likes to be a martyr (check the archives for the last time he
got in a huge fight and left the list in a storm).  I have a hard time
seeing him come back and apologize and commit to better behavior, but if
he does, I'm more than happy to put him back on the list.  With his
current attitude, I would feel irresponsible signing him back up on the
list.


> I think it's time we had official policy on list subscriptions and
> dealing with problems. Autocratic banning just isn't appropriate,
> especially for such a minor offense.

This was not a decision made by any single person.  It was made by
elected officers of the UUG.  This is not the first time Michael has
made a stink, and we have had several complaints about his behavior on
the list, including at least one person who isn't on the UUG list
because of receiving what they feel to be abusive treatment from him.

If Michael wants to rejoin the list, I'm happy to let him.  All he has
to do is commit to following BYU standards--to follow the rules.  I'm
responsible to the school for making sure that things are kept
reasonable, and I'm trying to do the best I can.  If we all try to
respect each other and use common sense, we can keep the list pleasant
and inviting.


-- 
Andrew McNabb
http://www.mcnabbs.org/andrew/
PGP Fingerprint: 8A17 B57C 6879 1863 DE55  8012 AB4D 6098 8826 6868

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