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From amcnabb at mcnabbs.org  Mon Mar 28 13:11:19 2005
From: amcnabb at mcnabbs.org (Andrew McNabb)
Date: Mon Mar 28 13:10:03 2005
Subject: [uug] And Now a Message From Our Sponsors...
Message-ID: < 20050328201119.GF6719@mcnabbs.org>

Dr. Woodfield, our faculty sponsor in the CS Department, came down and
spoke to Sco++ and me this morning.  He asked me to relay a few ideas to
the list, since he is teach classes for the rest of the day.  I will
quote him liberally in this email and will include only his thoughts
(and none of my own) as I understood them.  He'll correct me if I
misquote him, and he said that he would love to talk to anyone
individually about any concerns.

First, a little history.  In the beginning, the Unix Users Group was
sponsored by the CS Department.  Enough members were involved in enough
inappropriate behavior that the CS Department kicked out the club.  That
the UUG didn't completely die was a miracle.  It was somehow able to get
a new sponsor under BYUSA, and it had great leaders such as Stuart who
kept things going.  We were recently able to get the UUG back into the
CS Department, which was another miracle.

Once upon a time there was an owner who had a number of houses.  It
offered one of the houses to a group of tenants under the condition that
they kept the house clean.  The tenants had to agree to take off their
shoes when they came in, to keep the dishes clean, and to vacuum
regularly.  The tenants were well pleased because they appreciated the
clean environment.

Tenants came and went, but the owner kept a policy that previous tenants
could come back to visit whenever they liked, as long as they kept the
rules.  Some of the former tenants had moved to houses of "lesser
repute" (not "ill," just "lesser"), and when one of them returned to the
owner's house, he refused to take off his shoes.  The owner asked him to
leave, and there was a ruckus.  People believed that the person had been
kicked out unfairly, and they felt that the rules were not clearly
posted, though the owner felt they were clearly implied.  The owner
agreed to post the rules more clearly but refused to allow people in the
house without taking off their shoes.

The owner had had bad experiences with irresponsible tenants in the past
and had closed the house for a few years.  He considered disallowing
former tenants to visit at all or even to completely close the house
again.  Though neither of these would be desirable, the condition of his
house was a very high priority.

Dr. Woodfield told us this allegory and asked me to pass it on to remind
us of the nature of the UUG.  Our resources, including room scheduling,
bandwidth, and privilege to operate on campus, are provided by BYU (the
owner of the story).  As democratic as we try to make things, the fact
remains that BYU has authority over the club.  The existence of the UUG
in the CS Department is very dependent on Dr. Woodfield's name, which he
has placed on the line.

Determination of policies of the UUG which relate to the Honor Code and
BYU policies must be supported by the club's faculty sponsor (Dr.
Woodfield).  He has strongly emphasized that erring must be on the side
of "keeping the house clean."

These are just some issues we have no choice but to keep in mind while
discussing new policies.  I haven't included any of my own opinions in
this message.  Complaints should be directed to Dr.  Woodfield, who is
happy to address them.


-- 
Andrew McNabb
http://www.mcnabbs.org/andrew/
PGP Fingerprint: 8A17 B57C 6879 1863 DE55  8012 AB4D 6098 8826 6868

From: Matt Probst mprobst at probst.org 
Date: Tue Apr 5 17:22:32 MDT 2005
Subject: [uug] UUG History (was: And Now a Message From Our Sponsors...)

Sorry this is such a delayed post.....  Only today did I get caught up
with all the uug threads.

I would like to correct some mis-information that went out to the list.
The starting of the UUG happened at an unfortunate time.  There was
already another "techie" club on campus called "The Internet Club".  This
club was loaned an old mini computer by the college of engineering to use
for their club "server".  Though started with good intentions "The
Internet Club" did not have a decent charter.  A certain
president came to power by promising newbies "K00l Hakerz lessons" in
return for votes.  The president used their  old mini computer
(named "Spock") for illegal activity that eventually got the club disolved
and the president expelled from the university.

The UUG started before all of the Internet club's problems.  We put
together Phantom from spare parts donated by club members.  The original
phantom was a 486/66.  The UUG quickly gained members because our meetings
offered detailed useful information. In contrast, The Internet club was
full of script kiddies that didn't really appreciate or understand technology.

Phantom was originally in the CS department...  and we were a CS
department club as Dr. Woodfield has pointed out.

When the Internet Club started being exposed for mis-using BYU resources
and abusing school of Engineering privileges, the school of engineering
in turn got a black eye.  The CS department Chair at the time did not want
to have the liability of a rogue student controlled club and basically
kicked the UUG out of the department.  The CS Chair sent and email to all
faculting telling them not to accept requests to be our advisor and not to
associate themselves with us.

Too much of a liability.

The ACM was the department's controllable child with a faculty appointed
"executive council".  Why the need for two clubs?

In the mean time we had been holding regular weekly meetings, hosted 50+
BYU club web sites on phantom as a free service, held install fests..
Install-O-ramas as we used to call them and always acted as a good
service oriented citizen.

I appreciate Dr. Woodfields support for the club...  however the
information he received about the origins of the club are incorrect.
Rather than allow the mis-informed actions of certain faculty in the CS
department to kill the UUG, we moved to become a BYUSA club.  BYUSA
though full of politics has always been supportive of us as long as we
abide by the rules... which we have.

So in summary, this club has been victim to knee jerk reactions by the
department before.  I don't expect that to change.... so for that reason I
support all the great discussion about a publicized list posting policy
that allows both long time members and new members to always know what is
not acceptable.  We as a club need to be sensitive to the fact that the CS
department wants to maintain a clean image no matter what.  I have over
15,000 message my my uug-list folder from the past two years alone.  Even
with all this great discussion, just one message, if found to be highly
offensive by a power-that-be-at-BYU, could cause the club and list to be
shut down.

It is a constant battle to help the BYU powers-that-be understand that a
club such as this is an asset rather than a liability....  Such is the job
of the club officers...  not to act as mere puppets of the administration
(I'm not saying the current officers have been so in any way), but to act
as spokemen [spokeswomen] for the club and "politic'ers" when necessary.
Part of the service that the club needs to continue to render is the
education of non club members (faculty included) that linux and Unix on
peoples desktops is not just for mal-intentioned "hackers".

With this being said, for all current official members of the club:
please vote in these elections.  We have a continued need for club
officers that love Unix and technology so much that they are willing to
put *alot* of effort in to helping the club thrive.  All the members
on this list as well as BYUSA and the CS department are assets that need
to be maintained and handled with care.

I love you guys.  Sniff. sniff.

-matt

On Mon, 28 Mar 2005, Andrew McNabb wrote:

> Dr. Woodfield, our faculty sponsor in the CS Department, came down and
> spoke to Sco++ and me this morning.  He asked me to relay a few ideas to
> the list, since he is teach classes for the rest of the day.  I will
> quote him liberally in this email and will include only his thoughts
> (and none of my own) as I understood them.  He'll correct me if I
> misquote him, and he said that he would love to talk to anyone
> individually about any concerns.
>
> First, a little history.  In the beginning, the Unix Users Group was
> sponsored by the CS Department.  Enough members were involved in enough
> inappropriate behavior that the CS Department kicked out the club.  That
> the UUG didn't completely die was a miracle.  It was somehow able to get
> a new sponsor under BYUSA, and it had great leaders such as Stuart who
> kept things going.  We were recently able to get the UUG back into the
> CS Department, which was another miracle.
>
> Once upon a time there was an owner who had a number of houses.  It
> offered one of the houses to a group of tenants under the condition that
> they kept the house clean.  The tenants had to agree to take off their
> shoes when they came in, to keep the dishes clean, and to vacuum
> regularly.  The tenants were well pleased because they appreciated the
> clean environment.
>
> Tenants came and went, but the owner kept a policy that previous tenants
> could come back to visit whenever they liked, as long as they kept the
> rules.  Some of the former tenants had moved to houses of "lesser
> repute" (not "ill," just "lesser"), and when one of them returned to the
> owner's house, he refused to take off his shoes.  The owner asked him to
> leave, and there was a ruckus.  People believed that the person had been
> kicked out unfairly, and they felt that the rules were not clearly
> posted, though the owner felt they were clearly implied.  The owner
> agreed to post the rules more clearly but refused to allow people in the
> house without taking off their shoes.
>
> The owner had had bad experiences with irresponsible tenants in the past
> and had closed the house for a few years.  He considered disallowing
> former tenants to visit at all or even to completely close the house
> again.  Though neither of these would be desirable, the condition of his
> house was a very high priority.
>
> Dr. Woodfield told us this allegory and asked me to pass it on to remind
> us of the nature of the UUG.  Our resources, including room scheduling,
> bandwidth, and privilege to operate on campus, are provided by BYU (the
> owner of the story).  As democratic as we try to make things, the fact
> remains that BYU has authority over the club.  The existence of the UUG
> in the CS Department is very dependent on Dr. Woodfield's name, which he
> has placed on the line.
>
> Determination of policies of the UUG which relate to the Honor Code and
> BYU policies must be supported by the club's faculty sponsor (Dr.
> Woodfield).  He has strongly emphasized that erring must be on the side
> of "keeping the house clean."
>
> These are just some issues we have no choice but to keep in mind while
> discussing new policies.  I haven't included any of my own opinions in
> this message.  Complaints should be directed to Dr.  Woodfield, who is
> happy to address them.
>
>
> --
> Andrew McNabb
> http://www.mcnabbs.org/andrew/
> PGP Fingerprint: 8A17 B57C 6879 1863 DE55  8012 AB4D 6098 8826 6868
>

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