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From: dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Rusty and Eddies assault
Date: 10 Feb 1993 22:12:45 GMT
Organization: Her Master's Voice
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There has been a deafening silence in this group following the attack by the
SPA and the police on Rusty and Eddies BBS.

I thought this was what the eff was all about ? What is going on here ?

---
David A. Clunie (dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au)

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: jpd...@netcom.com (David Leslie)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <1993Feb10.012758.13435jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> 
<1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 04:56:47 GMT
Lines: 18

In article <1lbukt...@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>There has been a deafening silence in this group following the attack by the
>SPA and the police on Rusty and Eddies BBS.
>
>I thought this was what the eff was all about ? What is going on here ?
>
>David A. Clunie (dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au)

What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | jpd...@netcom.com   |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   |                     /

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.060546.7420@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Organization: Northern Illinois University
References: <1993Feb10.012758.13435jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> 
<1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 06:05:46 GMT
Lines: 32

In article <1993Feb11.0...@netcom.com> jpd...@netcom.com (David Leslie) writes:
>
>What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
>on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
>in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
>set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 
>
Mike Godwin is apparently watching this case closely. He will 
undoubtedly add more details as relevant. It's premature to judge
the R&E case on the basis of press releases put out by those with
an interest in promoting the board has a major pirate board. The
press releases of Operation Sun Devil, the Phrack case and Len
Rose are examples of how law enforcement (and others') hyperbole
distorts events.
 
Perhaps R&E was guilty of blatant civil and criminal violations.
Perhaps not. It's wisest to wait for a copy of the indictment (if
there is one) and a sense of what the evidence is.
 
If preliminary reports are true, one concern in this case is the
alleged confiscation of titles to house and car in the seizures.
Whatever the evidence shows, we ought remember the principle of
presumptive innocence. We should also remember that a justice system
(encouraged by outside special interests) that uses a case to
set an example is vindictive justice, and vindictive justice is hardly
an ideal to be valued in a society ostensibly based on Enlightenment
principles.
 
Jim Thomas

Organization: Chemical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Message-ID: <gfSd4Tu00XQL4gZnkv@andrew.cmu.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 12:47:11 -0500 
From: Douglas Allen Luce <dl...@andrew.cmu.edu>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
In-Reply-To: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com>
References: <1993Feb10.012758.13435jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> 
<1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
	<1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com>
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Excerpts from netnews.comp.org.eff.talk: 11-Feb-93 Re: Rusty and Eddies
assault David Les...@netcom.com (863)
> What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
> on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
> in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
> set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 

Don't be fooled by the media.  Just because they were allegedly busted
for having pirated software doesn't mean:

a) that they were at fault (i.e. knew this was happening),
b) that the allegations are true at all.

Recently, a college radio station in new york was fined in excess of
$20,000 for playing a Kid Rock song.  Apparently, the only evidence in
the case was a tape that contained this song, but had no station
identification or even a DJ's voice.  

While there's still questions to be answered in the R&E incident,
there's still more to be asked.

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dclunie
From: dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1ldrb4INNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
Date: 11 Feb 93 15:28:36 GMT
Article-I.D.: flash.1ldrb4INNhjh
References: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com>
Reply-To: dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au
Distribution: world
Organization: Her Master's Voice
Lines: 49
NNTP-Posting-Host: britt.pax.tpa.com.au

>What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
>on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
>in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
>set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 

I have no specific information unfortunately, however:

 - the SPA's in particular, and law enforcement agencies in general, do not
   appear to have a good track record when it comes to the validity of their
   assaults on BBS's, either in terms of successful prosecution, or fair
   dealing with victim's property

 - I used R&E's bbs for some time when I lived in the US, and got the
   impression that it was a system run well by people who knew what they
   were doing. I never saw any evidence of pirated commercial software. I
   find the suggestion that they would allow such behaviour staggering, given
   the obvious risk involved and the absence of any possible benefit to them
   (as I recall the subscription fees were relatively trivial)

Hence I assume on the basis of experience and without any evidence that
R&E's have been the victim of an error, or entrapment in some form or
another, and I hope that the EFF will make more than just a passive effort
to ascertain the details and offer their support should it be welcome.

At least they haven't been accused of distributing kiddie porn. Though I am
sure that at this very moment, prosecuters funded by your tax dollars are
scouring megabyte after megabyte of image files to find someone that can
be construed as being possibly underage. I hope they are enjoying themselves.

I find it very disconcerting that anyone reading this group would assume
that R&E are guilty and not worthy of the attention of the EFF. What has
happened to the presumption of innocence in the US ?

Personally, in a David & Goliath situation such as this, I tend to assume
that Goliath is usually just flexing his muscles against a weaker opponent
ill equipped to mount much of a legal defense. Let's face it, how are the
operators of R&E going to afford to defend themselves against the government
and the SPA's criminal and civil litigation ? And if they do emerge vindicated,
who is going to compensate them for the loss of their business and reputation ?

The mere threat of action by the SPA has achieved its sinister objective,
regardless of the outcome.

Does anyone have a list of members of the SPA ? I think I am going to start
making an effort to boycott any software published by their members if they
continue to encourage this kind of "police state" behaviour.

--
David A. Clunie (dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au)

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: f...@eff.org (Cliff Figallo)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.163556.21340@eff.org>
Originator: f...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: The Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <1993Feb10.012758.13435jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> 
<1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> 
<1993Feb11.060546.7420@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 16:35:56 GMT
Lines: 11

tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:
>Mike Godwin is apparently watching this case closely. He will 
>undoubtedly add more details as relevant. It's premature to judge
>the R&E case on the basis of press releases ....
> 
What Jim says here is basically true of EFF's current involvement.
-- 
                    <<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>><<*>>                         
Cliff Figallo                                     f...@eff.org
Electronic Frontier Foundation                    (617)576-4500 (voice)
Online Communications Coordinator                 (617)576-4520 (fax)

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: j...@dixie.com (John De Armond)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <7dwspca@dixie.com>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 93 19:04:53 GMT
Organization: Dixie Communications Public Access.  The Mouth of the South.
References: <1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
Lines: 18

dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie) writes:

>There has been a deafening silence in this group following the attack by the
>SPA and the police on Rusty and Eddies BBS.

>I thought this was what the eff was all about ? What is going on here ?

Maybe it is a sign that the members of this group are growing up.  Maybe
people are waiting for the facts come out before deciding who the 
bad guys are instead of kneejerking against the authorities.

John
-- 
John De Armond, WD4OQC               |Interested in high performance mobility?  
Performance Engineering Magazine(TM) | Interested in high tech and computers? 
Marietta, Ga                         | Send ur snail-mail address to 
j...@dixie.com                        | per...@dixie.com for a free sample mag
Need Usenet public Access in Atlanta?  Write Me for info on Dixie.com.

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Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
From: gt...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 21:25:21 +0000
Message-ID: <9302112125.AA07241@pizzabox.demon.co.uk>
Sender: use...@demon.co.uk
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	>I thought this was what the eff was all about ? What is going on here ?

	Maybe it is a sign that the members of this group are growing up.  Maybe
	people are waiting for the facts come out before deciding who the 
	bad guys are instead of kneejerking against the authorities.

Actually most of the knee-jerk reactions I saw were of the form 'they're
obviously guilty, this isn't what eff is here to support...'.  Looks like
the growing up for some has overshot towards senility.

I'm happy to wait.  I'm delighted to see Mike Godwin is keeping an eye
on it.  Mike, I take it you've spoken to them:  what's their side of the
story?

I'm wondering what will happen if it turns out that the BBS owners have
behaved completely responsibly, but some users have been misbehaving in
private.  If something like that were the case, and equipment could be
seized because of it - hell, the whole Internet could be confiscated
tomorrow! :-)

G

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb11.223256.249@eff.org>
Originator: mnem...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> 
<1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> <1993Feb11.060546.7420@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 22:32:56 GMT
Lines: 46

In article <1993Feb11....@mp.cs.niu.edu> 
tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:
>
>Mike Godwin is apparently watching this case closely. He will 
>undoubtedly add more details as relevant. It's premature to judge
>the R&E case on the basis of press releases put out by those with
>an interest in promoting the board has a major pirate board.

I'd like to hear from people who have direct experience as users
of Rusty & Edie's. Please send e-mail if you can tell me about your
experience with this BBS.


--Mike




 The
>press releases of Operation Sun Devil, the Phrack case and Len
>Rose are examples of how law enforcement (and others') hyperbole
>distorts events.
> 
>Perhaps R&E was guilty of blatant civil and criminal violations.
>Perhaps not. It's wisest to wait for a copy of the indictment (if
>there is one) and a sense of what the evidence is.
> 
>If preliminary reports are true, one concern in this case is the
>alleged confiscation of titles to house and car in the seizures.
>Whatever the evidence shows, we ought remember the principle of
>presumptive innocence. We should also remember that a justice system
>(encouraged by outside special interests) that uses a case to
>set an example is vindictive justice, and vindictive justice is hardly
>an ideal to be valued in a society ostensibly based on Enlightenment
>principles.
> 
>Jim Thomas
>
>
>


-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnem...@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 576-4510  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost

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From: rdip...@qualcom.qualcomm.com (Ron Dippold)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <rdippold.729470063@qualcom>
Sender: ne...@qualcomm.com
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References: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> 
<1ldrb4INNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1993 22:34:23 GMT
Lines: 19

dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au (David Clunie) writes:
>I find it very disconcerting that anyone reading this group would assume
>that R&E are guilty and not worthy of the attention of the EFF. What has
>happened to the presumption of innocence in the US ?

I've personally seen illegal software that came from Rusty and Edie's.
I'm not saying they knew about it, I'm not saying they encouraged it,
I'm just saying that I have seen more than one piece of such software.
They may actually have been stupid enough to do this, and thought they
could get away with it.  Or they could be innocent.  But it's not such
a blatant abuse like the Steve Jackson case, at least from what we know.

What bugs me is that they were able to confisticate the entire system.
If they are innocent they're losing revenue big time.  What's wrong
with making backups of the files, since that's all they care about,
and then prosecuting from there?
-- 
"I could tell you I really like you for your intelligence, your wit, and 
your personality.  But I'm honest...let's have sex."

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: jpd...@netcom.com (David Leslie)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.033343.13314@netcom.com>
Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services 
(408-241-9760 login: guest)
References: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> 
<1ldrb4INNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au>
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 03:33:43 GMT
Lines: 33

In article <1ldrb4...@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> dcl...@pax.tpa.com.au writes:
>>What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
>>on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
>>in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
>>set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 

[stuff deleted]

>I find it very disconcerting that anyone reading this group would assume
>that R&E are guilty and not worthy of the attention of the EFF. What has
>happened to the presumption of innocence in the US ?
>
>Personally, in a David & Goliath situation such as this, I tend to assume
>that Goliath is usually just flexing his muscles against a weaker opponent
>ill equipped to mount much of a legal defense. Let's face it, how are the
>operators of R&E going to afford to defend themselves against the government
>and the SPA's criminal and civil litigation? And if they do emerge vindicated,
>who is going to compensate them for the loss of their business and reputation?

I would only add, that I don't think it is in interest of EFF's credibility
to dive into every single case of alleged computer crime on the side of the
accused.  Though it may not be often, and though we may not like to admit
it, the FBI and or SPA are not always going to be abusing power. Believe it
or not, pay for piracy boards are common, and it would be in everyones 
interest if they got the axe. If Rusty and Eddie turn out to be victims of
framing, or mistaken identity, or are in anyway innocent, then the EFF
should jump in. But IMHO, the EFF also has something to gain by showing
itself able to discriminate between victims of the govt, and real crime.

 /  Amiga  ///    |  U.S.C. Trojans  | O Bar  | David Leslie        \
|         ///     |     Fight On!    | E O    |                      |
|     \\\///      |        --        | Meu    | jpd...@netcom.com   |
 \     \XX/ A1000 |     Go Kings!    | Lar!   | dle...@scf.usc.edu /

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From: pg...@cs.aukuni.ac.nz (Peter Gutmann)
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.213253.4778@cs.aukuni.ac.nz>
Date: 12 Feb 93 21:32:53 GMT
References: <1993Feb10.012758.13435jp@tygra.Michigan.COM> 
 <1lbuktINNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au><1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> 
<gfSd4Tu00XQL4gZnkv@andrew.cmu.edu>
Organization: Computer Science Dept. University of Auckland
Lines: 26

In <gfSd4Tu00...@andrew.cmu.edu> 
dl...@andrew.cmu.edu (Douglas Allen Luce) writes:

>Excerpts from netnews.comp.org.eff.talk: 11-Feb-93 Re: Rusty and Eddies
>assault David Les...@netcom.com (863)
>> What have you heard or read that makes you think that the police raid
>> on Rusty and Eddies BBS was illegitimate? and that the EFF should step
>> in? It sounds like R&E's bbs was simply a pay for pirated software
>> set-up. Not the kind of thing EFF should defend. 

>Don't be fooled by the media.  Just because they were allegedly busted
>for having pirated software doesn't mean:

>a) that they were at fault (i.e. knew this was happening),
>b) that the allegations are true at all.

They did have, as far as I can tell, *large* quantities of pirated
software on the system.  I used to help run a BBS, and couldn't believe
the number of times users would upload software which "was in the public
domain since it came off R&E".  We usually didn't zap the users who did
this (unless they were repeat offenders) since they weren't to know...

I still occasionally see archives of commercial software which came off R&E
floating around various systems.  The only thing which surprise me about
the bust is that it didn't come sooner.

Peter.

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb12.232336.32320@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Organization: Northern Illinois University
References: <1993Feb11.045647.18247@netcom.com> 
<1ldrb4INNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> <1993Feb12.033343.13314@netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1993 23:23:36 GMT
Lines: 12

In article <1993Feb12.0...@netcom.com> jpd...@netcom.com (David Leslie) writes:

>accused.  Though it may not be often, and though we may not like to admit
>it, the FBI and or SPA are not always going to be abusing power. Believe it

In fairness to the SPA, they seem to try to have their ducks in line
and make sure the evidence is overwhelming before pursuing a case. They've
been wrong only once out 150 suits, which suggests that, whether right or
wrong, they felt they had a strong case. 

Jim Thomas

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb13.030102.24619@eff.org>
Originator: mnem...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <9302112125.AA07241@pizzabox.demon.co.uk>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 03:01:02 GMT
Lines: 23

In article <930211212...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk> 
gt...@pizzabox.demon.co.uk (Graham Toal) writes:

>I'm happy to wait.  I'm delighted to see Mike Godwin is keeping an eye
>on it.  Mike, I take it you've spoken to them:  what's their side of the
>story?

I can't talk about the case very much, Graham, but I can tell you that
the sysop maintains that he discouraged software piracy on his BBS,
and that he looked over the public download areas in order to remove any
commercial software that had been uploaded.



--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnem...@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 576-4510  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
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From: mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb13.030201.24692@eff.org>
Originator: mnem...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <1ldrb4INNhjh@flash.pax.tpa.com.au> 
<1993Feb12.033343.13314@netcom.com> <1993Feb12.232336.32320@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 03:02:01 GMT
Lines: 21

In article <1993Feb12.2...@mp.cs.niu.edu> 
tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:

>In fairness to the SPA, they seem to try to have their ducks in line
>and make sure the evidence is overwhelming before pursuing a case. They've
>been wrong only once out 150 suits, which suggests that, whether right or
>wrong, they felt they had a strong case. 

On the other hand, this appears to be an FBI case rather than an SPA
case.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnem...@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 576-4510  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Path: sparky!uunet!ukma!psuvax1!news.ecn.bgu.edu!mp.cs.niu.edu!tk0jut1
From: tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb13.234139.27395@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Organization: Northern Illinois University
References: <1993Feb12.033343.13314@netcom.com> 
<1993Feb12.232336.32320@mp.cs.niu.edu> <1993Feb13.030201.24692@eff.org>
Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 23:41:39 GMT
Lines: 17

In article <1993Feb13.0...@eff.org> mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:
>In article <1993Feb12.2...@mp.cs.niu.edu> tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:
>
>>In fairness to the SPA, they seem to try to have their ducks in line
>>and make sure the evidence is overwhelming before pursuing a case. They've
>>been wrong only once out 150 suits, which suggests that, whether right or
>>wrong, they felt they had a strong case. 
>
>On the other hand, this appears to be an FBI case rather than an SPA
>case.

Mike, is it your understanding that the FBI initiated the case? Are you
free enough to take about specifics that you can provide some background on
its genesis?

Jim Thomas

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Path: sparky!uunet!enterpoop.mit.edu!world!eff!mnemonic
From: mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <1993Feb16.034025.7267@eff.org>
Originator: mnem...@eff.org
Sender: use...@eff.org (NNTP News Poster)
Nntp-Posting-Host: eff.org
Organization: Electronic Frontier Foundation
References: <1993Feb12.232336.32320@mp.cs.niu.edu> 
<1993Feb13.030201.24692@eff.org> <1993Feb13.234139.27395@mp.cs.niu.edu>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 03:40:25 GMT
Lines: 22

In article <1993Feb13.2...@mp.cs.niu.edu> tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:

>Mike, is it your understanding that the FBI initiated the case? Are you
>free enough to take about specifics that you can provide some background on
>its genesis?

It seems to be the case (I have yet to confirm this with SPA) that SPA
complained to the FBI, and sought their assistance in initiating a
criminal investigation. It differs from SPA involvement in other cases that
seem to have been solely civil matters.


--Mike




-- 
Mike Godwin,    |"I'm waiting for the one-man revolution
mnem...@eff.org| The only one that's coming."
(617) 576-4510  |                           
EFF, Cambridge  |                   --Robert Frost 

Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk
Path: sparky!uunet!ferkel.ucsb.edu!taco!gatech!rpi!usc!
howland.reston.ans.net!agate!boulder!csn!teal!bhayden
From: bha...@teal.csn.org (Bruce Hayden)
Subject: Re: Rusty and Eddies assault
Message-ID: <bhayden.729874057@teal>
Sender: ne...@csn.org (news)
Nntp-Posting-Host: teal.csn.org
Organization: Colorado SuperNet, Inc.
References: <1993Feb12.232336.32320@mp.cs.niu.edu> 
<1993Feb13.030201.24692@eff.org> <1993Feb13.234139.27395@mp.cs.niu.edu> 
<1993Feb16.034025.7267@eff.org>
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1993 14:47:37 GMT
Lines: 17

mnem...@eff.org (Mike Godwin) writes:

>In article <1993Feb13.2...@mp.cs.niu.edu> tk0...@mp.cs.niu.edu (jim thomas) writes:

>It seems to be the case (I have yet to confirm this with SPA) that SPA
>complained to the FBI, and sought their assistance in initiating a
>criminal investigation. It differs from SPA involvement in other cases that
>seem to have been solely civil matters.

Could that be because the got S 893 passed? Before C/R infringement (of
this type) was a felony, it was doubtful that the FBI would intervene.
Could this be the tip of an iceberg?

Bruce E. Hayden
(303) 758-8400
bha...@csn.org

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