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Message-ID: <bnews.rocks34.172>
Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards
Path: utzoo!decvax!harpo!seismo!rocheste!rocksvax!rocks34!dw
X-Path: utzoo!decvax!harpo!seismo!rocheste!rocksvax!rocks34!dw
From: rocks34!dw
Date: Tue May 17 05:58:42 1983
Subject: HP9000 info/review
Posted: Thu May  5 10:33:58 1983
Received: Tue May 17 05:58:42 1983

I had the oportunity to *play* with a pre-release version of the 
new Hewlett Packard 9000 Unix system the other day, and thought other
folks might be interested in what I saw.

The 9000 is availiable in several configurations ranging from a single
user/single cpu version to a multi-user/3 cpu model.  The system I
saw was a minimum configuration, consisting of a single cpu, 1.5 Meg
of memory, and an integrated crt.   (Oh yeah, it runs off a custom
32 bit micro.).

My general impression of the machine was favorable.  It seemed to run
quite fast, considering that it does not posess hardware floating point.
I found that it's execution speed was comparable to that of
a 11/780 with a couple of users running vi.  It will be interesting to
see how the multi-cpu version runs.

In terms of the Unix implementation, it is suppose to be derived from
v7, with some of the Berkeley utilities (and maybe some System 3, I'm
not sure).  This version seemed to have most of the utilities that I
remembered to look for, including vi, lint, more, uucp, news, etc.
Adb was missing, and I don't know if they plan to include it in the
release version.  Otherwise, I saw everything that I wanted.

My only gripe with the system is that HP has joined the group of Unix
suppliers which has decided to *improve* the user interface by making
it consistant, at the expense of compatability with other versions.
For example, if you want ps with a long listing you can't type
"ps l", you HAVE to type "ps -l".  They have also changed some of the 
flags to ps.  I personally find this to be VERY annoying. 

In all, I was pretty impressed with the system, and would recommend that 
people who are in the market for a 32 bit Unix system take a look at it.

Don Wegeng
Xerox Corp.
Rochester, NY
(716) 422-3347

{icalqa, pur-ee, rocksvax, sequel}!rocks34!dw
{allegra, seismo}!rochester!rocksvax!rocks34!dw

Message-ID: <bnews.csu-cs.2198>
Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards
Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!linus!allegra!eagle!harpo!seismo!hao!csu-cs!silver
X-Path: utzoo!decvax!genrad!linus!allegra!eagle!harpo!seismo!hao!csu-cs!silver
From: csu-cs!silver
Date: Fri May 13 21:52:04 1983
Subject: Response to HP9000 review by Don Wegeng
Posted: Tue May 10 14:21:11 1983
Received: Fri May 13 21:52:04 1983

Relay-Version:version B 3/9/83; site harpo.UUCP
Message-ID:<2...@csu-cs.UUCP>
Date:Tue, 10-May-83 14:21:11 EDT


Thanks, Don, for the positive  comments  about the HP9000.  It's good to
hear from potential users.

I'd like to  address  one  statement  you  made.  HP-UX is based on Bell
System III with  enhancements and bug fixes.  While we are improving the
reliability  of  HP-UX  over  System  III, we are  avoiding  unnecessary
modifications to the human interface, however much we might like to make
them.  We are  sensitive to the fact that  current  System III users are
familiar with the existing command syntax and semantics.

In particular, the System III version of ps(1) uses getopt(3) to analyze
options, so you cannot omit the leading "-" (as you expected you could).
We have not  changed the options to ps, but,  unfortunately,  the System
III  version  differs  greatly  from the UCB  version,  and this  can be
confusing.

Alan Silverstein, Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Systems Division, Colorado
ucbvax!hplabs!hpfcld!ajs, 303-226-3800 x3053, N 40 31'31" W 105 00'43"

Message-ID: <bnews.hplabs.1415>
Newsgroups: net.unix-wizards
Path: utzoo!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!neil
X-Path: utzoo!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabs!neil
From: hplabs!neil
Date: Thu May 19 07:00:46 1983
Subject: Re: HP9000 info/review - (nf)
Posted: Sat May  7 01:27:22 1983
Received: Thu May 19 07:00:46 1983

#R:rocks34:-17200:hplabs:12700002:000:2144
hplabs!neil    May  7 01:03:00 1983


I saw some comments about the HP9000 Unix workstation, and wanted
to correct some factual errors.  Please note that while I work
for HP, this is not "offical" informations (i.e. I do not work
for that divisions marketing department...).

The letter was in net.unix-wizards from rocks34!dw, Don Wegeng,
Xerox Corp.,  Rochester, NY, (716) 422-3347

    In terms of the Unix implementation, it is suppose to be derived from
    v7, with some of the Berkeley utilities (and maybe some System 3, I'm
    not sure).  This version seemed to have most of the utilities that I
    remembered to look for, including vi, lint, more, uucp, news, etc.
    Adb was missing, and I don't know if they plan to include it in the
    release version.  Otherwise, I saw everything that I wanted.

The system was derived from system III, with some utilities ported
from Berkeley, plus several HP-local applications and utilities.

    My only gripe with the system is that HP has joined the group of Unix
    suppliers which has decided to *improve* the user interface by making
    it consistant, at the expense of compatability with other versions.
    For example, if you want ps with a long listing you can't type
    "ps l", you HAVE to type "ps -l".  They have also changed some of the 
    flags to ps.  I personally find this to be VERY annoying. 

An interesting comment.  The 9000's unix is not a port.  Instead it
is a layering of the Unix system interface on top of an already
existing real time kernel.  There is no /dev/kmem, and PS was rewritten
from scratch.  The flags were changed because PS is very dependent
on the underlying implementation.  The "ps -l" is NOT a bug -- read
the system III manual (it annoys the hell out of me too, but...).

All in all the 9000 is impresively compatible with Bell system III
for a) a layered system and b) a different machine architecture.
Despite a hackers mentality of "improving" everything, the rules
were "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." We put in about five man
years in testing the kernel for "Unix-hood", and management gave
much importance to compatibility.


    Neil Katin
    ucbvax!hplabs!neil

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