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From: david...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP (William E. Davidsen Jr)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix
Subject: SCO Xenix support
Message-ID: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 11-Aug-87 12:05:56 EDT
Article-I.D.: steinmet.6974
Posted: Tue Aug 11 12:05:56 1987
Date-Received: Thu, 13-Aug-87 05:57:46 EDT
Distribution: na
Organization: GE Corp. R & D, Schenectady,NY
Lines: 30
Keywords: support
I really like the SCO product, but their support policy seems just short
of useless. It is aimed for the first time user, who will ask stuff like
"how do I add my xyz printer?" It only covers the first N days (90 I
think, but it may only be 30).
Of course the serious user may not have a question for months, after
which he calls and is told the answer is: "send $600 and we'll listen to
you." I personally believe that three hours help in the first 12 months
is more useful to the serious users. And questions answered with "that's
a known bug" shouldn't count toward the time, since you didn't get an
answer.
My favorite was a bug in a recent version (the answer to all questions
about older versions is "it may be fixed in the current release" even if
what you have is only six weeks old) wherein a user program caused a
system crash "Trap 0D in kernel: <register dump>". I was told that this
was a hardware error, although it was replicable on several systems. It
was fixed in 2.1.3. I was also asked if I was running an "real Intel
80287" when calling about a memory fault in the C compiler.
Since I can't run ethernet on 2.latest, I guess I don't have to worry
about upgrade for awhile. Sure would be nice to have some tech support,
though.
Does anyone else share my opinions?
--
bill davidsen (w...@ge-crd.arpa)
{chinet | philabs | sesimo}!steinmetz!crdos1!davidsen
"Stupidity, like virtue, is its own reward" -me
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uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay
From: j...@splut.UUCP
Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix
Subject: Re: SCO Xenix support
Message-ID: <56@splut.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 15-Aug-87 14:17:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: splut.56
Posted: Sat Aug 15 14:17:13 1987
Date-Received: Fri, 21-Aug-87 04:43:16 EDT
References: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: Confederate Microsystems, League City, TX
Lines: 23
Keywords: support
Summary: SCO's not the only company like that...
In article <6...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, david...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP
(William E. Davidsen Jr) writes:
> I really like the SCO product, but their support policy seems just short
> of useless. It is aimed for the first time user, who will ask stuff like
> "how do I add my xyz printer?" It only covers the first N days (90 I
> think, but it may only be 30).
> [...]
> Does anyone else share my opinions?
I can't speak to SCO, but Microport has the same policy (though they're not
quite as expen$ive). They want $149/year for technical support, and that
includes calls to report bugs! Real, live, system crashes.
I don't object paying for handholding (I'll do without instead), but for a
vendor to charge me to fix a bug in his product is absurd. I love SV/AT, but
would not recommend it to anyone except a Un*x wizard, simply because it'll
cost him too much to get it running, both in sweat/tears and tech support $
(they also removed the tech support people from their 800 number :-P ).
--
>splut!<...Jay Maynard, K5ZC | uucp: ...!seismo!soma!uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay
"Don't ask ME about Unix... | GEnie: JAYMAYNARD (...e-i-e-i-o!)
I speak SNA!" | CI$: 71036,1603 FidoNet: SysOp @106/64
The opinions herein are shared by neither of my cats, much less anyone else.
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ccicpg!turnkey!root
From: r...@turnkey.UUCP (Super user)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix
Subject: Re: SCO Xenix support
Message-ID: <133@turnkey.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 20-Aug-87 19:56:17 EDT
Article-I.D.: turnkey.133
Posted: Thu Aug 20 19:56:17 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 23-Aug-87 23:39:38 EDT
References: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> <56@splut.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: Turnkey Computer Consultants, Costa Mesa, CA
Lines: 42
Keywords: support
Summary: Not totally fair to SCO
In article <5...@splut.UUCP>, j...@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes:
> In article <6...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, david...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP
(William E. Davidsen Jr) writes:
> > I really like the SCO product, but their support policy seems just short
> > of useless. It is aimed for the first time user, who will ask stuff like
> > "how do I add my xyz printer?" It only covers the first N days (90 I
> > think, but it may only be 30).
> > [...]
> > Does anyone else share my opinions?
>
> I can't speak to SCO, but Microport has the same policy (though they're not
> quite as expen$ive). They want $149/year for technical support, and that
> includes calls to report bugs! Real, live, system crashes.
>
> I don't object paying for handholding (I'll do without instead), but for a
> vendor to charge me to fix a bug in his product is absurd. I love SV/AT, but
> would not recommend it to anyone except a Un*x wizard, simply because it'll
> cost him too much to get it running, both in sweat/tears and tech support $
> (they also removed the tech support people from their 800 number :-P ).
I think both of you are forgetting the proper perspective in this issue, after
all have you ever inquired what a company running Unix on, say, a Vax 11/780
is paying for its tech support? I have a feeling that $149/yr would be a paltry
sum by comparsion. Jay, when you say you would not recommend uport to anyone
but a "Un*x wizard" you forget that most sites employ just such a person to
keep their system functional, they are called system administrators and it is a
full time job. Of course when you port Unix to a small system like an AT, it
is a different economic situation, but the operating system is no less complex
and, thus, to expect support to compare to, say, your printer problem with
Wordstar under DOS just is not fair. Believe me, I sympathize with you both
in terms of our dollars spent, but I also understand the position of SCO and
Microport. Technical staffs are not cheap, and if SCO must employ the so-called
Un*x wizard to help you, then why should they foot the whole bill? It all boils
down to the issue of the cost of such a system, you cannot run a complex OS
likeXenix or uport Unix without the attendant costs of tech. administration, if you
are able to provide it yourself, fine, otherwise one must just expect to have
topay for that service, whether from an independent consulting firm, or from SCO
or Microport directly. You may even be able to get a freebie or two from the
net :-}.
--
Jack F. Vogel
Turnkey Computer Consultants, Costa Mesa, CA
UUCP: ...seismo!uunet!ccicpg!turnkey!root
...ucbvax!ucivax!mickey!conexch!turnkey!root
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hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!sugar!splut!jay
From: j...@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix
Subject: Re: SCO Xenix support
Message-ID: <93@splut.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 25-Aug-87 09:24:59 EDT
Article-I.D.: splut.93
Posted: Tue Aug 25 09:24:59 1987
Date-Received: Sat, 29-Aug-87 08:57:31 EDT
References: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> <56@splut.UUCP> <133@turnkey.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: Confederate Microsystems, League City, TX
Lines: 85
Keywords: support
Summary: I'm no computer dummy...why should I be charged as one?
In article <1...@turnkey.UUCP>, r...@turnkey.UUCP (Super user) writes:
> In article <5...@splut.UUCP>, j...@splut.UUCP (Jay Maynard) writes:
> > In article <6...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP>, david...@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP (William E. Davidsen Jr) writes:
> > > I really like the SCO product, but their support policy seems just short
> > > of useless. It is aimed for the first time user, who will ask stuff like
> > > "how do I add my xyz printer?" It only covers the first N days (90 I
> > > think, but it may only be 30).
> > > [...]
> > > Does anyone else share my opinions?
> >
> > I can't speak to SCO, but Microport has the same policy (though they're not
> > quite as expen$ive). They want $149/year for technical support, and that
> > includes calls to report bugs! Real, live, system crashes.
> >
> > I don't object paying for handholding (I'll do without instead), but for a
> > vendor to charge me to fix a bug in his product is absurd. I love SV/AT, but
> > would not recommend it to anyone except a Un*x wizard, simply because it'll
> > cost him too much to get it running, both in sweat/tears and tech support $
> > (they also removed the tech support people from their 800 number :-P ).
>
> I think both of you are forgetting the proper perspective in this issue, after
> all have you ever inquired what a company running Unix on, say, a Vax 11/780
> is paying for its tech support? I have a feeling that $149/yr would be a paltry
> sum by comparsion. Jay, when you say you would not recommend uport to anyone
> but a "Un*x wizard" you forget that most sites employ just such a person to
> keep their system functional, they are called system administrators and it is a
> full time job. Of course when you port Unix to a small system like an AT, it
> is a different economic situation, but the operating system is no less complex
> and, thus, to expect support to compare to, say, your printer problem with
> Wordstar under DOS just is not fair. Believe me, I sympathize with you both
> in terms of our dollars spent, but I also understand the position of SCO and
> Microport. Technical staffs are not cheap, and if SCO must employ the so-called
> Un*x wizard to help you, then why should they foot the whole bill? It all boils
> down to the issue of the cost of such a system, you cannot run a complex OS
> like Xenix or uport Unix without the attendant costs of tech. administration,
> if you are able to provide it yourself, fine, otherwise one must just expect
> to have to pay for that service, whether from an independent consulting firm,
> or from SCO or Microport directly. You may even be able to get a freebie or
> two from the net :-}.
Before I get into this, let me mention my personal background. I've been
involved in microcomputers for 10 years, doing everything from dedicated
control systems to accounting applications to OS implementation. I am also a
systems programmer (IBM/370-style) with 6 years experience at the systems
level. I know enough to RTFM, and even diddle around with likely problems,
before I call for support.
(asbestos suit on) IBM's support policy is one of the most enlightened I've
seen. If you suspect a software problem, you pick up the phone, call
1-800-237-5511, give them your customer number, and then get as much
technical support as they can provide on the phone. If they can't resolve it
on the phone, they'll dispatch a person to come look at the problem locally
and talk to you and the support center. If your system's down, they'll drag
as many people out of bed to work on your problem exclusively until it's
fixed.
I realize that this level of support is unnecessary in the personal computer
environment. I expect, however, to at least be able to call in to check if
the problem I'm having is a reported bug, or a new one, and to have someone
look at it if it hasn't been reported before. I don't demand that they have
someone work on my problem alone, or that they drop what they're doing to
get my system back up; I don't think that I should have to go to a Un*x
internals class to run a system on my AT, either.
There have been several major problems reported against SV/AT; a couple of
them are deadly - like the bug that panics the system if you hang up on it
while it's sending output to a /dev/tty line. Bugs they know about, and
should be in the process of fixing; or bugs they haven't heard about yet,
and are serious enough to cause major user problems. I should be able to do
nothing in installation or customization to cause the entire OS to panic and
go down in flames.
Systems implementors assume a responsibility to have the Un*x wizards on
staff to resolve problems such as this. Supposedly, the sale price of the
product covers such expenditures. I don't object to charges for user
handholding, and would not even object to giving them a Mastercard or Visa
number at the beginning of the phone call, but I would object to having that
card charged if the problem turned out to be a real, live system bug. I paid
for working software.
--
Jay Maynard, K5ZC...>splut!< | uucp: hoptoad!academ!uhnix1!nuchat!splut!jay
"Don't ask ME about Unix... | (or sun!housun!nuchat) CI$: 71036,1603
I speak SNA!" | internet: beats me GEnie: JAYMAYNARD
The opinions herein are shared by neither of my cats, much less anyone else.
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pilchuck!apcisea!ssc!fyl
From: f...@ssc.UUCP (Phil Hughes)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.xenix
Subject: Re: SCO Xenix support
Message-ID: <752@ssc.UUCP>
Date: Thu, 27-Aug-87 21:11:13 EDT
Article-I.D.: ssc.752
Posted: Thu Aug 27 21:11:13 1987
Date-Received: Sun, 30-Aug-87 01:55:25 EDT
References: <6974@steinmetz.steinmetz.UUCP> <56@splut.UUCP> <133@turnkey.UUCP>
Distribution: na
Organization: SSC, Inc., Seattle, WA
Lines: 19
Keywords: support
Summary: True. Tech support costs money.
In article <1...@turnkey.UUCP>, r...@turnkey.UUCP (Super user) writes:
> I think both of you are forgetting the proper perspective in this issue, after
> all have you ever inquired what a company running Unix on, say, a Vax 11/780
> is paying for its tech support? I have a feeling that $149/yr would be a paltry
> sum by comparsion.
The differences in attitude seem amazing. We do consulting as well
as tech support (dial-a-guru) and generally I see people who will
listen to a salesman sell them $20,000 worth of hardware where $10,000
would have done their job, then balk at spending $75/month for support.
Those same people who wasted $10,000 on hardware would never consider
paying $1,000 to a consultant to see what hardware they should buy.
The attitude seems to be, "If I get something made out of metal for
my money it's worth it, if I just get information, it should be free."
--
Phil Hughes, SSC, Inc. P.O. Box 55549,
Seattle, WA 98155 (206)FOR-UNIX
...!uw-beaver!tikal!ssc!fyl