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Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!munnari.oz.au!mel.dit.csiro.au!smart
From: sm...@manta.mel.dit.csiro.au (Robert Smart)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au>
Date: 3 Jan 91 05:00:48 GMT
Sender: sm...@mel.dit.csiro.au (Robert Smart)
Organization: CSIRO DIT (Melb.)
Lines: 8

I understand that Berkeley intend to make the parts of BSD which are not
based on AT&T code freely redistributable. On that basis I have used
code from random.c in a program I am modifying. However before I distribute
it I would like to get hold of a version of random.c which is more
clearly (in its internal comments) redistributable. Any help would
be appreciated.

Bob Smart <sm...@mel.dit.csiro.au>

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!gsm001!gsm
From: g...@gsm001.uucp (Geoffrey S. Mendelson)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <1991Jan3.165855.21113@gsm001.uucp>
Date: 3 Jan 91 16:58:55 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au>
Organization: Geoffrey S. Mendelson -- Software Consulting
Lines: 34


In: <1991Jan3.050048.5...@mel.dit.csiro.au>

Robert Smart

>I understand that Berkeley intend to make the parts of BSD which are not
>based on AT&T code freely redistributable. 

The original Berkeley code was funded by the U.S. Department of Defense
which makes it owned by the "United States of America" which makes it
public domain.

The later stuff was funded by the State of California which also makes it
public domain.

This includes modifications to AT&T source code, but not the AT&T code itself.

Therefore programs that were written at Berkeley such as BIFF, the BSD NROFF,
etc. are clearly public domain even if there are no comments to that effect.

I am not a laywer, this is not legal advice, only a systems programer's
opinion.

If you are truely concered, ask an atourney that specializes in software law.

This is especially important as U.S. copyright law is VERY different than
anyone else's. 

Since there are no copyrights in the Soviet Union, maybe you could
ftp a copy from MOSCVAX. 
-- 
Geoffrey S. Mendelson
(215) 242-8712
uunet!gsm001!gsm

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!samsung!think.com!hsdndev!cmcl2!
kramden.acf.nyu.edu!brnstnd
From: brns...@kramden.acf.nyu.edu (Dan Bernstein)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <1261:Jan317:51:0091@kramden.acf.nyu.edu>
Date: 3 Jan 91 17:51:00 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au> 
<1991Jan3.165855.21113@gsm001.uucp>
Organization: IR
Lines: 24

In article <1991Jan3.165855.21...@gsm001.uucp> g...@gsm001.uucp 
(Geoffrey S. Mendelson) writes:
> >I understand that Berkeley intend to make the parts of BSD which are not
> >based on AT&T code freely redistributable. 
> The original Berkeley code was funded by the U.S. Department of Defense
> which makes it owned by the "United States of America" which makes it
> public domain.

Not necessarily.

> Therefore programs that were written at Berkeley such as BIFF, the BSD NROFF,
> etc. are clearly public domain even if there are no comments to that effect.

Not necessarily.

> If you are truely concered, ask an atourney that specializes in software law.

Yes.

> This is especially important as U.S. copyright law is VERY different than
> anyone else's. 

No.

---Dan

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!bu.edu!shelby!agate!ucbvax!pasteur!
galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck
From: jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <10009@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 3 Jan 91 18:35:28 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au> 
<1991Jan3.165855.21113@gsm001.uucp> <1261:Jan317:51:0091@kramden.acf.nyu.edu>
Sender: n...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)
Lines: 36

First, so there is no confusion, I have nothing to do with the CSRG, the
group at Berkeley who brought you 4.3bsd.

This discussion originally started when someone said.
|> > >I understand that Berkeley intend to make the parts of BSD which are not
|> > >based on AT&T code freely redistributable. 

Berkeley has already made some files in 4.3bsd freely redistributable; thanks
goes to John Gilmore into prodding them to do it.

Someone else wrote:
|> > Therefore programs that were written at Berkeley such as BIFF, the BSD NROFF,
|> > etc. are clearly public domain even if there are no comments to that effect.

Probably true for biff, not true for nroff, since it contains AT&T code.
It doesn't matter that Berkeley rewrote it; it's a "derivative work".

The safe way to use 4.3bsd source as if it were public domain is to get the
files off of uunet (ftp from uunet.uu.net) under the directory bsd-sources.
Every source file in this directory is freely distributable, declared so by
Berkeley.  The copyright notices on the files specify the conditions.  You
may use any of these files without consulting an attorney.

Note that the files on uunet may not correspond to complete programs; they
are "as is".

If you have a source license or have illegal access to a BSD tape, I strongly
recommend that you do not use ANY of the files on that tape.  Even if you
know that the program you're using does not appear in any AT&T Unix release,
you still don't know that the author didn't cut-and-paste source code from
AT&T.  The files on uunet are certified free.


--
Joe Buck
jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu	 {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck	

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!julius.cs.uiuc.edu!
apple!agate!pasteur!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck
From: jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <10011@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Date: 3 Jan 91 18:49:44 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au> 
<1991Jan3.165855.21113@gsm001.uucp> <1261:Jan317:51:0091@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> 
<10009@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Sender: n...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU
Reply-To: jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck)
Lines: 11

Following up my own article -- I wrote
|> The safe way to use 4.3bsd source as if it were public domain is to get the
|> files off of uunet (ftp from uunet.uu.net) under the directory bsd-sources.

Pardon me for repeating the common misuse of "public domain".  The files in
question are not public domain, they have copyrights.  However, the conditions
are very generous, they are much like the conditions for X11 sources.

--
Joe Buck
jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu	 {uunet,ucbvax}!galileo.berkeley.edu!jbuck	

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!wuarchive!usc!bbn.com!papaya.bbn.com!rsalz
From: rs...@bbn.com (Rich Salz)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.questions,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Use of BSD 4.3 source
Message-ID: <3171@litchi.bbn.com>
Date: 4 Jan 91 22:17:40 GMT
References: <1991Jan3.050048.5153@mel.dit.csiro.au> 
<1991Jan3.165855.21113@gsm001.uucp> <1261:Jan317:51:0091@kramden.acf.nyu.edu> 
<10009@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
Followup-To: comp.unix.questions
Organization: BBN Systems and Technology, Inc.
Lines: 9

In <10...@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU> jb...@galileo.berkeley.edu (Joe Buck) writes:
>Berkeley has already made some files in 4.3bsd freely redistributable; thanks
>goes to John Gilmore into prodding them to do it.
Not to slight John, but Keith Bostic probably deserve the most credit for
changing the mindset of CSRG more than anyone else.
	/r$
-- 
Please send comp.sources.unix-related mail to rs...@uunet.uu.net.
Use a domain-based address or give alternate paths, or you may lose out.

Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!samsung!mips!daver!bungi.com!news
From: j...@meepmeep.pcs.com (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.nsc.32k
Subject: re: BSD being free'd
Message-ID: <9101141420.AA19310@meepmeep.pcs.com>
Date: 14 Jan 91 13:45:48 GMT
Sender: n...@daver.bungi.com
Lines: 14
Approved: n...@daver.bungi.com

Well, no slight to Per intended, but we've all been hearing THAT story
for awhile now. I've no doubt in my mind that _eventually_ all this
BSD/AT&T stuff will get ironed out in favor of the users, considering
that Mike Karels and crew seem to be very dedicated to achieving that end,
but I wouldn't get my hopes up as to when.

In the meantime, perhaps the source license'd people should get together.
I did bandy that idea around a couple of months back but didn't get much
response (except from a few people saying "I don't have a source license
but can I get BSD from you anyway? Puhhhleeeeeze?"). We can certainly
swap code between ourselves - no sense in 5 different groups re-writing the
memory management wheel (for example).

					Jordan

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