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From: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek)
Subject: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare
Message-ID: <CwKBp6.5B7@byteware.com>
Sender: vl...@byteware.com (James Vlcek)
Reply-To: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek)
Organization: The Black Box of Lowertown
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 1994 03:15:06 GMT
Lines: 45

I'd been away a week in Germany on business, and was suprised to come back  
and find such a muted response to the 12 September ComputerWorld article  
detailing Novell's retrenchment.  Among other shufflings, Novell is  
back-burnering "desktop" UnixWare and DOS 7.

It's not entirely clear just what the withdrawal of "desktop" UnixWare will  
mean - does it, for example, spell the end of the Personal Edition, at  
approximately $150 the best entry-level buy for a PC UNIX?  Given the  
realities of this business, I'd have to imagine that one would only be  
fooling one's self to think otherwise.

UnixWare itself does remain in certain key positions in the Novell strategy,  
as part of the "Super NOS" that will compete with NT a couple of years down  
the road.  Clearly, Novell is aiming UnixWare at the large-server sector -  
the last bastion of all UNIX vendors as Microsoft steadily seizes the  
technical workstation market.

(Well, with the exception of SCO, which has clearly maintained its position  
as _the_ medium-size-Intel-UNIX vendor.  A local Novell reseller at a recent  
trade show told me that the few UnixWare sales he'd made were essentially SCO  
replacements, which didn't suprise me.  But UnixWare has clearly lost this  
battle.)

What sets Novell apart from the other "big UNIX" vendors is that Novell  
doesn't sell boxes, which are what really make the money for IBM, HP, ATT  
GIS, and Sun.  Sure, some can be convinced to license UnixWare for their  
boxes, but how much money can be made this way?  (Consider: how much money  
did USL ever make for AT&T?  And also consider that Novell has already sold  
off the UNIX source rights to Sun, and will likely do the same with IBM and  
HP as well.  Further consider how rapidly AT&T GIS is getting into bed with  
Microsoft and it's NT product...)

Novell sold 35,000 UnixWare licenses in 1993 and expects to sell twice that  
in 1994.  (I'm skeptical)  This compares to 600,000 NT licenses in that OS's  
first year, about 300,000 Solaris licenses in 1994, or about 200,000 SCO  
licenses.  I can only shake my head.  If Novell had a history - like  
Microsoft - of sticking by its products until they succeed, I might think  
UnixWare had a chance.  As it is, I suspect that Novell considers UNIX to be  
an albatross, and will steadily reduce its effort in the UNIX direction.

-- 
Jim Vlcek                                                            I came,
vl...@byteware.com                                                    I saw,
The Black Box of Lowertown                                         I posted.
Beautiful downtown St. Paul

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From: g...@summit.novell.com (George F Demarest)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware
Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare
Date: 26 Sep 1994 19:20:08 GMT
Organization: Novell
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Jim Vlcek (vl...@byteware.com) wrote:
: I'd been away a week in Germany on business, and was suprised to come back  
: and find such a muted response to the 12 September ComputerWorld article  
: detailing Novell's retrenchment.  Among other shufflings, Novell is  
: back-burnering "desktop" UnixWare and DOS 7.

There goes Jim, starting troube again...  :-)

: It's not entirely clear just what the withdrawal of "desktop" UnixWare will  
: mean - does it, for example, spell the end of the Personal Edition, at  
: approximately $150 the best entry-level buy for a PC UNIX?  Given the  
: realities of this business, I'd have to imagine that one would only be  
: fooling one's self to think otherwise.

No, several articles misinterpreted Frankenburgs statements.  The PE will
continue to be available, supported, sold, etc.  His comment and other comments
he has made on this subject specify that UnixWare PE will not receive as much
marketing emphasis as our Application Server.  The Desktop of UnixWare is now,
has been, and will always be an essential part of the product.   Ease of 
administration is one of the elements of UnixWare that makes it friendly 
for businesses.  UW 2.0 will greatly improve ease of use of our desktop and
our installation.

Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio
(EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE.  But in the meantime:

The Personal Edition will remain a product. 

: (Well, with the exception of SCO, which has clearly maintained its position  
: as _the_ medium-size-Intel-UNIX vendor.  A local Novell reseller at a recent  
: trade show told me that the few UnixWare sales he'd made were essentially SCO  
: replacements, which didn't suprise me.  But UnixWare has clearly lost this  
: battle.)

I think that you are over-stating here, Jim.  The battle rages on.  What
points you to the conclusion that anyone has won or lost anything?  The
Unix market in general is growing rapidly, more and more of our resellers
are coming on line with UnixWare, and we are about to release a product
that will be easier to use and install, will scale extremely well and  
will be focussed as THE high-performance database/communication/application
server on a platform that is accelerating in performance and price/performance
at a tremendous rate.


: What sets Novell apart from the other "big UNIX" vendors is that Novell  
: doesn't sell boxes, which are what really make the money for IBM, HP, ATT  
: GIS, and Sun.  Sure, some can be convinced to license UnixWare for their  
: boxes, but how much money can be made this way?  

It is exactly because we don't sell hardware that we are in an excellent 
position.  Economies of scale will favor us as extreme competition in a
commodity hardware market makes more powerful boxes less expensive.
Proprietary hardware companies are already showing the stress.  


: (Consider: how much money  
: did USL ever make for AT&T?  

answer: some.

: And also consider that Novell has already sold  
: off the UNIX source rights to Sun, and will likely do the same with IBM and  
: HP as well.  

This is speculation.

: Novell sold 35,000 UnixWare licenses in 1993 and expects to sell twice that  
: in 1994.  (I'm skeptical)  This compares to 600,000 NT licenses in that OS's  
: first year, about 300,000 Solaris licenses in 1994, or about 200,000 SCO  
: licenses.  I can only shake my head.  If Novell had a history - like  
: Microsoft - of sticking by its products until they succeed, I might think  
: UnixWare had a chance.  As it is, I suspect that Novell considers UNIX to be  
: an albatross, and will steadily reduce its effort in the UNIX direction.

Novell has an operating system in it's 4th generation with netware.  Also
a TCP/IP suite for DOS, OS2, Mac.  I'm sure you would find a trail of 
discontinued/never-released products on most decent sized software houses.
UW will soon scale better, cost less and outperform most of its peers when 
UnixWare 2.0 hits the streets.  

gfd

: -- 
: Jim Vlcek                                                            I came,

--
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George Demarest			| "large systems, whether the government or
Novell, Inc. (USG, SED)		| private, have an inhumanity to them that's
g...@summit.novell.com 		| fundamentally intolerable" - M. Kapor
(908) 522-6363			| Disclaimer: "ok ok, forget I even said it."
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Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware
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From: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek)
Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare
Message-ID: <CwrvB1.A8H@byteware.com>
Sender: vl...@byteware.com (James Vlcek)
Reply-To: vl...@byteware.com (Jim Vlcek)
Organization: The Black Box of Lowertown
References: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Sep 1994 05:01:48 GMT
Lines: 64

George F Demarest writes
> 
> There goes Jim, starting trouble again...  :-)

Who, me? :-)

But, all fun and games aside...

All the postings, and emails I've received, clarifying and fortifying the  
Novell position with regard to UnixWare do present some kind of positive  
picture with regard to UnixWare in general, and the PE in particular.

But I, and many others like myself, am not afforded the luxury of dealing  
exclusively in the dry facts of an issue like this.  Instead, I must deal  
with the impressions of my customers, who - if they have heard of UnixWare at  
all - have the impression that Novell is dumping UnixWare.

These are customers who, while they understand the need for a robust system  
like UNIX for embedded systems such as I produce, are much more comfortable  
with a Mac or a Windows box than a UNIX workstation.  They may have been  
burned in the past by high-priced, proprietary UNIX workstation vendors,  
even.

Like many others of my stripe, I cheered openly the Novell adoption of the  
UNIX banner and the acquisition of USL.  Finally, I could use a name familiar  
to my customers - a name which could give them warm fuzzies even if used in  
the same sentence as UNIX.

Instead, I've witnessed 18-odd months of one of the most strikingly  
incompetent market efforts ever mounted by a billion-dollar corporation.  My  
customers ask me if Novell isn't getting set to dump UNIX, my colleagues  
_tell_ me that Novell is getting set to dump UNIX, and I've still yet to hear  
an official and unambiguous statement of strategy from Novell regarding UNIX.

The proposition has been set forth that Frankenburg's remarks were  
exaggerated or misconstrued by the industry press.  This is certainly  
possible.  Equally possible in my view, however, is that Frankenburg's main  
intent was to reassure existing NetWare installations that all is well, and  
that the wacko technologies are being tossed out of the corporate lifeboat.   
UNIX may not be out, but it is - as usual - sucking hind tit.

> Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio
> (EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE.  But in the meantime:
> 
> The Personal Edition will remain a product. 

Thank you for that.

But tremendous damage has been done.  As I've said, I must deal not so much  
with whatever is the reality of Novell's market stance vis-a-vis UnixWare.  I  
must deal with my customer's impressions of the market.  This impression has  
been clouded by many factors outside Novell's control, by the past misdeeds  
of the UNIX industry.  Novell's actions in the past year and a half,  
including CEO Frankenburg's recent (mis)statements, have only worsened the  
situation.

It's a long climb out of here.  I really hope we can start seeing some  
positive actions on the part of Novell.

-- 
Jim Vlcek                                                            I came,
vl...@byteware.com                                                    I saw,
The Black Box of Lowertown                                         I posted.
Beautiful downtown St. Paul

Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware
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From: m...@gcs.com (Mark Bolzern)
Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare
Organization: WorkGroup Solutions (FlagShip) & GCS, Inc.
Date: Wed, 12 Oct 1994 13:53:36 GMT
Message-ID: <CxKBxC.Jsq@gcs.com>
References: <3676t8$d6@bird.summit.novell.com> <CwrvB1.A8H@byteware.com>
Lines: 64

In article <CwrvB1....@byteware.com>, Jim Vlcek <vl...@byteware.com> wrote:
>Instead, I've witnessed 18-odd months of one of the most strikingly  
>incompetent market efforts ever mounted by a billion-dollar corporation.  My  
>customers ask me if Novell isn't getting set to dump UNIX, my colleagues  
>_tell_ me that Novell is getting set to dump UNIX, and I've still yet to hear  
>an official and unambiguous statement of strategy from Novell regarding UNIX.
>
>The proposition has been set forth that Frankenburg's remarks were  
>exaggerated or misconstrued by the industry press.  This is certainly  
>possible.  Equally possible in my view, however, is that Frankenburg's main  
>intent was to reassure existing NetWare installations that all is well, and  
>that the wacko technologies are being tossed out of the corporate lifeboat.   
>UNIX may not be out, but it is - as usual - sucking hind tit.
>
>> Someone is sending me a statement of clarification from Mike DeFazio
>> (EVP of Novell's Unix Systems Group) about the PE.  But in the meantime:
>> 
>> The Personal Edition will remain a product. 
>
>Thank you for that.
>
>But tremendous damage has been done.  As I've said, I must deal not so much  
>with whatever is the reality of Novell's market stance vis-a-vis UnixWare.  I  
>must deal with my customer's impressions of the market.  This impression has  
>been clouded by many factors outside Novell's control, by the past misdeeds  
>of the UNIX industry.  Novell's actions in the past year and a half,  
>including CEO Frankenburg's recent (mis)statements, have only worsened the  
>situation.
>
>It's a long climb out of here.  I really hope we can start seeing some  
>positive actions on the part of Novell.

The issue is that Novell does not have the guts to admit that Netware IS NOT
and NEVER HAS BEEN and operating system.... So they have to mask why they
bought Unix (To have a real OS) until it is sufficiently integrated with 
Netware... to call it Netware... or until the UnixWare market share is big
enough that it doesn't cost them much to admit that Netware is not an OS..
NLMs for a long time were to be the MultiTasking saviour.. they don't have
the stomach to admit that they failed....

In the process of course they shoot themselves in the foot... by delaying
UnixWare's ability to get market share.  It would be cheaper to bite the
bullet now and take a lead position..rather than wait for Microsoft to 
catch up to UnixWare too... MS has already bypassed Netware.... and is
beginning to take larger and larger bites out of that installed base...
it would be better for Novell to do it with UnixWare... by giving UnixWare
Novell Server capabilities yesterday..... Replace one with the other NOW.
Otherwise they sentence themselves to obscurity... and maybe Unix with them.

Fortunately Linux is making a good showing.... Unix cannot hope to make a
frontal attack on the desktop which Microsoft has sown up... It must first 
serve it better than MS does... and then counter attack later....

The main battle is NT .vs. Unix, not Unix .vs. MS-Win....for now.

Netware does not figure at all.. it has already lost. The question now is who
replaces Netware Servers...


-- 
Mark Bolzern :  m...@gcs.com    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
  FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: i...@wgs.com

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From: g...@summit.novell.com (George F Demarest)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware
Subject: Re: Novell de-emphasizing UnixWare
Date: 14 Oct 1994 15:42:02 GMT
Organization: Novell
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Mark Bolzern (m...@gcs.com) wrote:
: The issue is that Novell does not have the guts to admit that Netware IS NOT
: and NEVER HAS BEEN and operating system.... So they have to mask why they
: bought Unix (To have a real OS) until it is sufficiently integrated with 
: Netware... to call it Netware... or until the UnixWare market share is big
: enough that it doesn't cost them much to admit that Netware is not an OS..
: NLMs for a long time were to be the MultiTasking saviour.. they don't have
: the stomach to admit that they failed....

NetWare is selling more than ever.  Although it may be an OS that you
do not like, it is an OS.  It does multi-task and I don't believe we've
made claims of saviourhood.  Just high-speed network services for multiple
clients, protocols, and transports.  Being a Unix user, NetWare has not 
replaced UnixWare as my main operating environment, but I can now take
advantage of some of its services and have my colleagues using Macs, Windows
and DOS enjoy the benfits that NetWare provides.  For each place, the correct
tools; that, I believe, is something that Novell does promise.

: In the process of course they shoot themselves in the foot... by delaying
: UnixWare's ability to get market share.  It would be cheaper to bite the
: bullet now and take a lead position..rather than wait for Microsoft to 
: catch up to UnixWare too... MS has already bypassed Netware.... and is
: beginning to take larger and larger bites out of that installed base...
: it would be better for Novell to do it with UnixWare... by giving UnixWare
: Novell Server capabilities yesterday..... Replace one with the other NOW.
: Otherwise they sentence themselves to obscurity... and maybe Unix with them.

Well, perhaps Microsoft has convinced you of this, but thousands of our
customers are not quite convinced.

Also, we will be adding NetWare server capabilities to UnixWare in 1995.


: The main battle is NT .vs. Unix, not Unix .vs. MS-Win....for now.

Well, I'll agree a bit here, but there are other battles.

: Netware does not figure at all.. it has already lost. The question now is who
: replaces Netware Servers...

disagree (and I will defer arguing this point).

In the meantime, we are making UnixWare better.

Thank you, and good night.

gfd

: -- 
: Mark Bolzern :  m...@gcs.com    USA Tel: (303) 699-7470  Fax: (303) 699-2793 
: WorkGroup Solutions, Inc.    The FlagShip "CA-Clipper and XBase on Unix" People
:   FlagShip is a 4GL Database Development System & XBase Porting Tool for Unix
: No Runtime Fees   Info at ftp.wgs.com : /pub2/wgs/Filelist OR mail: i...@wgs.com

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George Demarest					g...@summit.novell.com
UnixWare Prod. Mktg. Mgr. 			(908) 522-6363	
Novell, Inc.	
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		       SCO Files Lawsuit Against IBM

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