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From: Michael Duane Setzer II <mich...@linette.guam.net>
Subject: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/08/20
Message-ID: <1995Aug20.052537.27783@kuentos.guam.net>#1/1
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sender: n...@kuentos.guam.net (Netnews Administrator)
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organization: Guam Community College
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I recently correct the Time Zone on my UnixWare AS 2.02 machine, or so 
I thought. Guam is 10 hours ahead of GMT time, so I selected other and
selected 10 as the offset from GMT. It comes up as GMT+10, which looks
fine. I have been hit by a number of power outages, and noticed that 
the time was off in the system status screen. I thought it might be 
the system clock, so I powered down, and check it out. It had the correct
local time, and I rebooted. The system time was then off by 10 hours. 
Am I suppose to set the system time to GMT or am I doing something 
wrong. After setting the time, I can use the date command, and get
the currect date and time for Guam, and date -u gives the time 10 hours
earlier, which would be correct fo GMT. I don't see the power outage 
problem disappearing for a few more months, so any recommandations 
would be appreciated. At present, it looks like setting the CMOS
clock to GMT would solve the problem.
Thanks.
Michael D. Setzer II
Computer Science Instructor
Guam Community College
Guam - Where America's Day Begins.

From: egg...@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/08/30
Message-ID: <422clr$2ir@shade.twinsun.com>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109153151
references: <1995Aug20.052537.27783@kuentos.guam.net> <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk>
organization: Twin Sun Inc, El Segundo, CA, USA
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:

>	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ

Which one must admit is a bit confusing, since Posix would have you say
TZ='GMT-10' for Guam.  Perhaps Unixware should upgrade to the latest tz
database <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata95f.tar.gz> which lets the
Guam user say

	TZ=:Pacific/Guam; export TZ

and this would be a little easier to explain.  (It also causes `date'
to output a friendly `GST' instead of a confusing `GMT-10'.)

From: msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/08/30
Message-ID: <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109153186
sender: n...@novell.co.uk
references: <1995Aug20.052537.27783@kuentos.guam.net>
organization: Novell UK
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Michael Duane Setzer II (mich...@linette.guam.net) wrote:
: I recently correct the Time Zone on my UnixWare AS 2.02 machine, or so 
: I thought. Guam is 10 hours ahead of GMT time, so I selected other and
: selected 10 as the offset from GMT. It comes up as GMT+10, which looks
: fine. I have been hit by a number of power outages, and noticed that 
: the time was off in the system status screen. I thought it might be 
: the system clock, so I powered down, and check it out. It had the correct
: local time, and I rebooted. The system time was then off by 10 hours. 
: Am I suppose to set the system time to GMT or am I doing something 
: wrong. After setting the time, I can use the date command, and get
: the currect date and time for Guam, and date -u gives the time 10 hours
: earlier, which would be correct fo GMT. I don't see the power outage 
: problem disappearing for a few more months, so any recommandations 
: would be appreciated. At present, it looks like setting the CMOS
: clock to GMT would solve the problem.

What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
(in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ

) and *then* use the date command, as root, to set the time to the  correct
local time.  This should set the system hardware clock to local time (so
that if you boot DOS on the box it still works) and the Unix system time to
the equivalent in GMT.  Applications (such as the date command) will then
use the TZ variable to convert that back into local time.  If you reboot,
the kernel will look up /etc/TIMEZONE, read the hardware clock, subtract
one from the other, and set the internal system time to GMT again.  That's
how it should work.  :-)


--
*******************************************************************
Martin F. Sohnius                             msohn...@novell.co.uk
Novell IS & T, Bracknell, England             +44-1344-724031 
*******************************************************************
(C) 1995 M.F.Sohnius -- free distribution on USENET
       (Not a spokesperson  -- just a cyclist!)

From: msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/08/31
Message-ID: <DE6ovK.3Aw@novell.co.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109227769
sender: n...@novell.co.uk
references: <1995Aug20.052537.27783@kuentos.guam.net> <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk> 
<422clr$2ir@shade.twinsun.com>
organization: Novell UK
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Paul Eggert (egg...@twinsun.com) wrote:
: msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius) writes:

: >	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ

: Which one must admit is a bit confusing, since Posix would have you say
: TZ='GMT-10' for Guam.

Assuming that in Guam you use the abbreviation GST, the POSIX way would be
TZ=GST-10.

The confusion is caused by the US-centricity of Unix:  the POSIX timezone
format uses EST5EDT for Eastern Time, for historic consistency.  Once the
Americans had defined their offset from GMT as being positive (in contradiction
to astronomical and airlines convention), the only way to describe timezones
east of Greenwich was as negative.  

In the case of TZ=:GMT+10, the "GMT+10" is the name of the timezone.

: Perhaps Unixware should upgrade to the latest tz
: database <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata95f.tar.gz> which lets the
: Guam user say

: 	TZ=:Pacific/Guam; export TZ

I agree.  I have been pushing for a closer integration with elsie for a while.

By the way, users in the UK beware:  after I pushed through an MR a few
years ago to change the then erroneous rule "last Sunday in October" to the
then correct rule "day after 4th Saturday in October", Parliament changed
the rules for this year, and we are changing on Oct 22, not Oct 29 as both
of the above rules would imply.  So, UnixWare will get this wrong this
year.  Next year we will be co-oordinated with the rest of the EC, whatever
they are doing, and UnixWare will hopefully by then have the correct rule.

--
*******************************************************************
Martin F. Sohnius                             msohn...@novell.co.uk
Novell IS & T, Bracknell, England             +44-1344-724031 
*******************************************************************
(C) 1995 M.F.Sohnius -- free distribution on USENET
       (Not a spokesperson  -- just a cyclist!)

From: art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/09/05
Message-ID: <42gsvn$8j7@gateway.dircsa.org.au>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109533830
references: <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk>
organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Martin Sohnius (msohn...@novell.co.uk) wrote:

: What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
: (in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

: 	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ
           ^
OK, what's the significance of the colon character in the above?

/etc/TIMEZONE here:

#! /bin/sh
TZ=CST-09:30
export TZ

-- 
Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-223-5082 
              art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au
.endofsig

From: kmc...@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca (Ken McVay OBC)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/09/05
Message-ID: <42ja3b$7sq@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 109597765
references: <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk> <42gsvn$8j7@gateway.dircsa.org.au>
organization: The Nizkor Project
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

In article <42gsvn$...@gateway.dircsa.org.au>, art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au 
(Arthur Marsh) wrote:

>Martin Sohnius (msohn...@novell.co.uk) wrote:

>: What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
>: (in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

>: 	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ
           ^
>OK, what's the significance of the colon character in the above?

>/etc/TIMEZONE here:

>#! /bin/sh
>TZ=CST-09:30
>export TZ

Hmmm.... mine (UW 2.0) has the colon:

TZ=:Canada/Pacific
export TZ

Interestingly enough, since doing a non-destructive install,
it isn't working properly anymore, but I don't know why.. I
must have installed some other package which somehow clobbers
the TZ setting, because at reboot, the time, and sometimes the
date, are out of whack. Since the computer's CMOS is correct,
it can only be a system error I've created... <sigh>
-- 
     The Nizkor Project: An Electronic Holocaust Educational Resource
                   Anonymous ftp: ftp.almanac.bc.ca
Nizkor Web: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/ (Under construction - permanently!)
   Kenneth McVay OBC.  Home Page: http://www.almanac.bc.ca/~kmcvay/

From: msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/09/13
Message-ID: <DEv6Jo.559@novell.co.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 110057346
sender: n...@novell.co.uk
references: <DE4pAF.3s5@novell.co.uk> <42gsvn$8j7@gateway.dircsa.org.au> 
<42ja3b$7sq@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca>
organization: Novell UK
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Ken McVay OBC (kmc...@nizkor.almanac.bc.ca) wrote:
: In article <42gsvn$...@gateway.dircsa.org.au>, art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au 
(Arthur Marsh) wrote:

: >Martin Sohnius (msohn...@novell.co.uk) wrote:

: >: What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
: >: (in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

: >: 	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ
:            ^
: >OK, what's the significance of the colon character in the above?

Let me go for the long haul :-)

There are two ""styles" of timezone handling in UnixWare (and in many
other UNIXes):  the POSIX style timezones, and the "Olsen" style timezones.

POSIX timezone variables are of the form

	TZ=EST5EDT

and generalisations thereof.  They allow a limited variety of different
rules for the change-over between summer and winter time, though by now
they at last do allow for half-hour timezones (such as yours, Arthur) and
even finer granularity down to seconds.

POSIX says that "if the variable starts with a colon, the behaviour is
vendor defined", or some such.

In the case of UnixWare, timezones with a colon refer to "Olsen style".
What follows the colon, is a pathname relative to /usr/lib/locale/TZ.
In that file, which is binary data, the rules for timezone are
encapsulated.  These files are generated by the zic(1M) utility from source
files whose format is described in the zic(1M) manual entry.
Unfortunately, the actual source files for UnixWare are only available with
the SDK, but newer and better ones can be downloaded from an ftp site whose
name I keep forgetting (something with "elsie" in it).

In my example above, the filename is /usr/lib/locale/TZ/GMT+10.  Note that
there is no other meaning to the "+10" than as part of a file name!  (Of
course, one would hope that this is reasonably mnemonic..).

: >/etc/TIMEZONE here:

: >#! /bin/sh
: >TZ=CST-09:30
: >export TZ

In this case, there is no colon, so it's a POSIX style TZ, and the -09:30
has real meaning:  you are 9 1/2 hours ahead of GMT.

: Hmmm.... mine (UW 2.0) has the colon:

: TZ=:Canada/Pacific
: export TZ

Olsen again.  The file is /usr/lib/locale/TZ/Canada/Pacific.  Whether
the rules are different from those of (POSIX) PST8PDT, I don't know.
But probably so, at some time in the past at least.

: Interestingly enough, since doing a non-destructive install,
: it isn't working properly anymore, but I don't know why.. I
: must have installed some other package which somehow clobbers
: the TZ setting, because at reboot, the time, and sometimes the
: date, are out of whack. Since the computer's CMOS is correct,
: it can only be a system error I've created... <sigh>

Make sure the Canada/Pacific file exists, and is uncorrupted.

--
*******************************************************************
Martin F. Sohnius                             msohn...@novell.co.uk
Novell IS & T, Bracknell, England             +44-1344-724031 
*******************************************************************

	if (status = UNDER_NUCLEAR_ATTACK)
		launch_full_counterstrike();

*******************************************************************
(C) 1995 M.F.Sohnius -- free distribution on USENET
       (Not a spokesperson  -- just a cyclist!)

From: art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au (Arthur Marsh)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/09/18
Message-ID: <43ja1a$rht@gateway.dircsa.org.au>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 110327527
references: <DEv6Jo.559@novell.co.uk>
organization: DIRCSA - Disability Information and Resource Centre
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Martin Sohnius (msohn...@novell.co.uk) wrote:

: : >: What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
: : >: (in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

: : >: 	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ
: :            ^
: : >OK, what's the significance of the colon character in the above?

: Let me go for the long haul :-)
...

: POSIX says that "if the variable starts with a colon, the behaviour is
: vendor defined", or some such.

: In the case of UnixWare, timezones with a colon refer to "Olsen style".
: What follows the colon, is a pathname relative to /usr/lib/locale/TZ.
: In that file, which is binary data, the rules for timezone are
: encapsulated.  These files are generated by the zic(1M) utility from source
: files whose format is described in the zic(1M) manual entry.

Is this colon behaviour documented in the manual pages?

zic (1M) under UW 1.1.2 here refers to /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo, which
doesn't exist. Strange...

: Unfortunately, the actual source files for UnixWare are only available with
: the SDK, but newer and better ones can be downloaded from an ftp site whose
: name I keep forgetting (something with "elsie" in it).

I have the SDK, but can't remember the name of the source directory.

From Martin's own previous typing:

[quote]

database <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata95f.tar.gz> which lets the

[end quote]

current file names are tzcode95d.tar.gz and tzdata95g.tar.gz (checked just
a few minutes ago).

Of course, summer time changes depend on little things like whether Adelaide
or Melbourne has the Australian Formula One Grand Prix and when...

-- 
Arthur Marsh, telephone +61-8-370-2365, fax +61-8-223-5082 
              art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au
.endofsig

From: msohn...@novell.co.uk (Martin Sohnius)
Subject: Re: Time Zone Question
Date: 1995/09/21
Message-ID: <DF9Eyr.9rn@novell.co.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 110503722
sender: n...@novell.co.uk
references: <DEv6Jo.559@novell.co.uk> <43ja1a$rht@gateway.dircsa.org.au>
organization: Novell UK
newsgroups: comp.unix.unixware.misc

Arthur Marsh (art...@gateway.dircsa.org.au) wrote:
: Martin Sohnius (msohn...@novell.co.uk) wrote:

: : : >: What you are *supposed* to do, is set the timezone correctly
: : : >: (in your case, the /etc/TIMEZONE file should have:

: : : >: 	TZ=:GMT+10; export TZ
: : :            ^
: : : >OK, what's the significance of the colon character in the above?

: : Let me go for the long haul :-)
: ...

: : POSIX says that "if the variable starts with a colon, the behaviour is
: : vendor defined", or some such.

: : In the case of UnixWare, timezones with a colon refer to "Olsen style".
: : What follows the colon, is a pathname relative to /usr/lib/locale/TZ.
: : In that file, which is binary data, the rules for timezone are
: : encapsulated.  These files are generated by the zic(1M) utility from source
: : files whose format is described in the zic(1M) manual entry.

: Is this colon behaviour documented in the manual pages?

The only place I could find in a very quick trawl is a quick mention in 
environ(4) under the TZ heading.

: zic (1M) under UW 1.1.2 here refers to /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo, which
: doesn't exist. Strange...

In the new docs it says that the target files are put into /usr/lib/locale/TZ.
The source has to be specified explicitly.  In the case of UnixWare, it's
shipped only with one of the SDK packages.  That's why I hinted at the
"elsie" site.  (Thanks, Arthur, for actually digging out the ref.  I knew I had
it once...)


: From Martin's own previous typing:

: [quote]

: database <ftp://elsie.nci.nih.gov/pub/tzdata95f.tar.gz> which lets the

: [end quote]

: current file names are tzcode95d.tar.gz and tzdata95g.tar.gz (checked just
: a few minutes ago).

: Of course, summer time changes depend on little things like whether Adelaide
: or Melbourne has the Australian Formula One Grand Prix and when...

Too true.  Here it's in the hands of Parliament, and they don't go through
Novell's change-control mechanism either!  (Hint hint for UK users!!)

--
*******************************************************************
Martin F. Sohnius                             msohn...@novell.co.uk
Novell IS & T, Bracknell, England             +44-1344-724031 
*******************************************************************
*        if (status = UNDER_NUCLEAR_ATTACK)                       *
*               launch_full_counterstrike();                      *
*******************************************************************
(C) 1995 M.F.Sohnius -- free distribution on USENET
       (Not a spokesperson  -- just a cyclist!)

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