Solaris source
Larry McVoy (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com)
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:39:27 -0700 

Oops, I forgot this was announced on the sparc-linux mailing list.
My previous cryptic message was related to the following:

> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> Today we announced the "free" Solaris Source code program =20
> and version 2.1 of AutoClient(appended).=20
> 
> 
> WORLDWIDE PRODUCT ANNOUNCEMENT INFORMATION
> 
> SCHOLARPAC SOLARIS SOURCE CODE
> 
> **********************************************************************
> 
> * Leading UNIX technology source code available at no cost -provided-=20
> another product is on the same purchase order =20
> =20
> * Competes with Linux strategy
> 
> * Support, upgrades, and code change sharing available for=20
> first time
> 
> **********************************************************************
> 
> 
> SECTION I=20
> 
> 
> ANNOUNCEMENT BRIEF
> ------------------
> 
> Sun Microsystems Computer Company (SMCC) announces repackaging and
> repricing of the ScholarPAC(TM) Solaris(TM) Source Code version 2.5.1.
> This product now includes both SPARC(TM) and Intel licenses as well as
> the Device Developers Kit (DDK) for users to create their own special
> software drivers. =20
> 
> Sun is making the source code for the Solaris operating environment,
> the industry's leading version of UNIX(R), available free of charge --
> for research and study purposes only -- to the higher education
> community around the world. The source code will only be free to
> customers that include another product on their purchase order to Sun.
> By providing the source for "free" we will not only give university
> researchers and students hands-on experience with Solaris source code,
> but will help ensure that Solaris benefits from the latest innovation
> and research at the world's top computer research labs.
> 
> As part of the program, Sun will institute a support and update program
> to share ideas for enhancing Solaris.
> 
> All previous 2.5 and 2.5.1 versions of ScholarPAC source code are no
> longer available.
> 
> 
> TRANSITION SCHEDULE
> -------------------
> 
> The ScholarPAC source code versions 2.5 and 2.5.1 upgrades will=20
> transition on the following schedule:
> 
> Last Order Date: April 22, 1997
> Last Ship Date: April 22, 1997
> 
> 
> AVAILABILITY
> ------------
> 
> First Order Date: April 16, 1997
> First Customer Ship Date: April 16, 1997
> Volume Shipment Date: April 16, 1997
> 
> 
> FEATURES AND BENEFITS
> ---------------------=20
> 
> Feature Benefit
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =09
> 
> SPARC and Intel Licenses included Same source tree, change code
> once
> 
> Device Developers Kit included Enables easy code creation to
> deploy unsupported hardware
> devices on Intel platforms
> =20
> New Licensing agreement Fewer restrictions mean fewer
> customer negotiations needed
> =20
> Support/reporting process Easy, direct link to Solaris
> engineering team
> =20
> Code sharing process Easy to share Solaris
> enhancements between sites and
> projects and have changes
> considered for future revision
> 
> 
> HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE CONSIDERATIONS =20
> ------------------------------------
> =20
> This product may not be licensed in selected countries where copyright
> protection is not upheld. All servers on which the product is mounted
> have to be registered with the agreement. There are no limits to the
> number of servers per site.
> 
> A legal agreement available from Sun's legal counsel must be signed by
> the end-user before the source code can be shipped.
> 
> Note that the SPARC and Intel source code is the same code on the same
> CD-ROM. The product ships with two packages: one source code CD-ROM
> and one box containing DDK and manuals.
> 
> 
> QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS=20
> ---------------------
> 
> Q. Why is Sun charging for this product, yet announcing it as free,
> providing the customer orders with another product?
> 
> A. The cost defrays a portion of the cost of processing an order.
> Where another product is ordered on the same order paperwork, Sun
> will discount the cost to no charge.
> 
> Q. How much is the cost of support, and will SunService(TM) support it?
> 
> A. Support is not available through SunService. Instead, an engineer
> will support customers through electronic mail service at no
> charge. The details will be announced to licensees in June.
> 
> Q. How do I get regular updates to the source code?
> 
> A. Licensees will be directly mailed as soon as a new version of source
> code is available. These revisions may be simple updates via
> electronic distribution or full revisions on CD-ROM via mail. There
> may be a small cost for these updates to cover production and mailing.
> 
> Q. Sun has not allowed me to share changes to source code before, why
> now?
> 
> A. Customers have indicated how important it is to be able to share
> code changes within collaborative research groups that can span
> different institutions and countries. All changes can be shared
> with other licensees. Sun also requests that changes be registered
> in a central electronic repository for the benefit of licensees and
> Sun.
> 
> Q. Does this mean that my changes might be used in a future release of
> Solaris?
> 
> A. Yes, at Sun's own discretion.
> 
> 
> =20
> 
> (c) 1997 Sun Microsystems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. Sun, Sun
> Microsystems, the Sun Logo, SunService, ScholarPAC, and Solaris are
> trademarks, registered trademarks, or service marks of Sun
> Microsystems, Inc. in the United States and other countries.
> 
> All SPARC trademarks are used under license and are trademarks or
> registered trademarks of SPARC International, Inc. in the United States
> and other countries. Products bearing SPARC trademarks are based upon
> an architecture developed by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> 
> UNIX is a registered trademark in the United States and other
> countries, exclusively licensed through X/Open Company, Ltd.
> 
> SECTION II=20
> 
> Sun Intro - Q2CY97 #16
> April 22, 1997
> Product Announcement=20
> - SCHOLARPAC SOLARIS SOURCE CODE=20
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --
> Sun Intro Sun Intro Sun Intro Sun
=
> Intro
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --
> 
> U.S. PRICING AND ORDERING INFORMATION
> -------------------------------------
> 
> First Order Date: April 16, 97
> First Customer Ship Date: April 16, 97
> Volume Shipment Date: April 16, 97
> 
> THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WILL APPEAR IN THE PRICE LIST.
> 
> REPRICING/DISCOUNT CATEGORY CHANGE:=20
> 
> SCHOLARPAC PART NUMBERS - SOFTWARE
> 
> Order Old Net Disc. New Net =20
> Disc.=20
> Description Number Price Cat. Price
> Cat. =20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D
> =3D=20
> 
> ScholarPAC Solaris 2.5.1 UNSOL-2.5.1-SRC $1500 D $100# A
> SPARC/Intel Exportable=20
> Source code with Device
> Developer Kit (DDK)
> 
> # $100 price to be discounted to $0 where another products is being
> ordered on the same PO number.
> 
> NOTE: ScholarPAC products are non-discountable and available only
> to education customers that are registered under the SMCC
> ScholarPAC program.
> 
> 
> PRODUCT TRANSITIONS:
> 
> Last Order Date: April 22, 1997
> Last Ship Date: April 22, 1997
> 
> THE FOLLOWING ITEMS WILL BE REMOVED FROM THE PRICE LIST
> 
> SCHOLARPAC PART NUMBERS - SOFTWARE
> 
> Order Replaced by
> Description Number Order Number
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 
> ScholarPAC Solaris 2.5.1 SPARC UNSOL-2.5.1-SRC-PU UNSOL-2.5.1-SRC
> Exportable Source code CD=20
> assembly; educational=20
> institutions only
> 
> ScholarPAC Solaris 2.5 SPARC UNSOL-2.5-SRC-PU UNSOL-2.5.1-SRC
> Exportable Source code CD=20
> assembly; educational=20
> institutions only
> 
> ScholarPAC Solaris 2.5 SPARC UNSOL-2.5-SRC UNSOL-2.5.1-SRC
> Exportable Source code CD=20
> assembly; educational=20
> institutions only
> 
> NOTE: The "Replaced By" parts above represent only suggested
> replacements for alternate products and may not be equivalent to
> transitioning parts. Some transitioned parts do not have
> suitable suggested replacements.
> 
> SECTION III
> 
> Sun Intro - Q2CY97 #16
> April 22, 1997
> Product Announcement=20
> - SCHOLARPAC SOLARIS SOURCE CODE=20
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --
> Sun Intro Sun Proprietary: Internal Use Only Sun
> Intro =20
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --=20
> INTERNAL-ONLY QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS=20
> -----------------------------------
> 
> Q. Where do I get a copy of the source code license agreement?
> 
> A. Your geo legal counsel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> The ScholarPAC parts for AutoClient changed a little -- I integrated=20
> the media with the licenses, given feedback from customers. This=20
> eliminated the -CD part number and changed the -L parts to -S. It
> also simplifies the program.
> 
> SCHOLARPAC PART NUMBERS - SOFTWARE
> 
> NEW Order Old numbers =20
> Description Number equivalents =20
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> 
> Solstice AutoClient 2.1 UNAUT-2.1-SL UNAUT-2.0-SL & UNAUT-2.0-CD
> Site License: Unlimited=20
> use license for Servers=20
> and Clients; supports=20
> SPARC and Intel
> =20
> Solstice AutoClient 2.1: UNAUT-2.1-S25 UNAUT-2.0-L25 & UNAUT-2.0-CD
> Unlimited Server License;=20
> 25-Client License; supports=20
> SPARC and Intel
> =20
> Solstice AutoClient 2.1 UNAUT-2.1-PAC UNAUT-2.0-PAC & UNAUT-2.0-CD
> 8/15 PAC
> 
> Regards Graham
> 
> A Field Communications Vehicle E-mail comments to=20
> fieldcom@sun.com
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --
> Sun Intro Sun Intro Sun Intro Sun Intro
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
> --
> --
> Q2CY97 #16 April 22,=
> =20
> 1997
> 
> =20
> *******************************************************************=20
Re: Solaris source
David S. Miller (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu)
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 17:47:36 -0400 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:39:27 -0700
From: Larry McVoy < lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com>

> * Competes with Linux strategy

I love it, "Competes with Linux strategy" bwahahahahaha 8-)

Little 'ole Linux, the "Toy Operating System", compete with big bad
Solaris? Nah....

---------------------------------------------////
Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & ////
199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s ////
ethernet. Beat that! ////
-----------------------------------------////__________ o
David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ ><
Re: Solaris source
Jauder Ho (jauderho@netcom.com)
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:50:22 -0700 (PDT) 

I was in a meeting a month back regarding the client company where
I work at wanted to expand capacity (they are ordering a 6000E with 9GB of
mem and 28 processors; my new toy! ; maybe I might get a chance to load
sparclinux on it real quick for testing before I have to do real work with
it; anyone know if sparclinux will talk to SSAs yet? i.e. fiber channel)
anyways during the meeting, someone made an offhand remark to linux and
the sun people responded with "we are very aware of linux and are coming
up with a plan to compete with linux" I guess we now know what they
intended. A couple of other things were brought up but unfortunately those
are NDA.

--Jauder

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, David S. Miller wrote:

> Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 14:39:27 -0700
> From: Larry McVoy < lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com>
> 
> > * Competes with Linux strategy
> 
> I love it, "Competes with Linux strategy" bwahahahahaha 8-)
> 
> Little 'ole Linux, the "Toy Operating System", compete with big bad
> Solaris? Nah....
> 
> ---------------------------------------------////
> Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & ////
> 199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s ////
> ethernet. Beat that! ////
> -----------------------------------------////__________ o
> David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ ><
> 


.sig under construction
Re: Solaris source
David S. Miller (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu)
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 18:54:50 -0400 

Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:50:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jauder Ho 

> maybe I might get a chance to load sparclinux on it real quick for
> testing before I have to do real work with it; anyone know if
> sparclinux will talk to SSAs yet? i.e. fiber channel)

No, but that is certainly on the todo list, it's been looked into
already.

> anyways during the meeting, someone made an offhand remark to linux
> and the sun people responded with "we are very aware of linux and
> are coming up with a plan to compete with linux" I guess we now
> know what they intended.

Indeed.

> A couple of other things were brought up but unfortunately those
> are NDA.

And so is their "competition plan" which is why it will be
unsuccessful at whatever they intend it to do. Anyone who signs up
for that program is essentially tainted, you must sign NDA's, and Alan
thinks that this NDA may mean that you are essentially unable to work
on OS kernels every again... oh except if you end up doing it for Sun
that is.. This would be true if the agreement you must sign is
anything like the Java one...

I hear Solaris/x86 is selling like hot cakes these days anyways, so we
have a lot to worry about it seems... 8-)

---------------------------------------------////
Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & ////
199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s ////
ethernet. Beat that! ////
-----------------------------------------////__________ o
David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ ><
Re: Solaris source
David A Rusling (rusling@linux.reo.dec.com)
Mon, 28 Apr 1997 21:43:01 +0100 

> On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, David S. Miller wrote:
> 
> > I hear Solaris/x86 is selling like hot cakes these days anyways, so we
> > have a lot to worry about it seems... 8-)
> 
> Speaking of which, now that we have:
> 
> SCO/Intel -> Linux/Intel
> Linux/Intel -> Linux/Alpha
> DU/Alpha -> Linux/Alpha
> SunOS/Sparc -> Linux/Sparc
> Solaris/Sparc -> Linux/Sparc
> (Pardon me if I missed any)
> 
> running, especially the later two, are there any plans to get 
> 
> Solaris/Intel -> Linux/Intel 
> 
> working? David & Miguel's Sparc/Linux paper seemed to intimate that
> Solaris emulation was not hard, even after SunOS emulation took all the
> reserved slot thingie-whatsits. I'm curious, given that the four
> applications which run on Solaris/Intel might, if runnable under Linux,
> draw an entire 10 new customers to the Linux community. In the face of
> this onslaught by Sun, no emulation suite is too low for us to consider.
> 8^)
> 

Given that we've just released an alpha of Intel Linux emulation for
Alpha Linux (pardon the pun) allowing you to run Intel Linux binaries
such as Applix/Netscape, I wonder how much work Solaris emulation on
Alpha Linux would be?

Also, as a side note, our company strategy towards Linux on Alpha is
to embrace it. It poses no real threat to Digital Unix, our experience
is that we have made board/system sales because of Linux that we would
not have made otherwise. Selling Alpha Linux systems has sometimes 
leveraged sales of Digital Unix servers. It really is a win-win 
situation for us.

Linux is a good little operating system (I always liked the phrase
'the operating system that could'). It may be going through a few
growing pains (eg 2.0.* stability issues) but those can be fixed, and
they are _growing_ pains and not _shrinking_ pains...

Dave

----------------------------------------------------------------------
David A Rusling Principal Engineer
European Semiconductor Applications Digital Equipment Co Ltd.,
Engineering PO Box 121,
Imperial Way,
Worton Grange
Reading RG2 0TU
Linux, Alpha, StrongArm, PCI Tel: UK-(0)1734-204380
Fax: UK-(0)1734-203133
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Re: Solaris source
Jakub Jelinek (jj@sunsite.ms.mff.cuni.cz)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:30:53 +0200 (MET DST) 

> I was in a meeting a month back regarding the client company where
> I work at wanted to expand capacity (they are ordering a 6000E with 9GB of
> mem and 28 processors; my new toy! ; maybe I might get a chance to load
> sparclinux on it real quick for testing before I have to do real work with
> it; 

Ultralinux has no SMP yet, and I guess noone has a SMP Ultra handy for
hacking...

> anyone know if sparclinux will talk to SSAs yet? i.e. fiber channel)

Some preliminary code is already written and I'll have from today on one
fibre channel FC4 sbus card with a SSA available for hacking...

> anyways during the meeting, someone made an offhand remark to linux and
> the sun people responded with "we are very aware of linux and are coming
> up with a plan to compete with linux" I guess we now know what they
> intended. A couple of other things were brought up but unfortunately those
> are NDA.

Several people in Sun already told me that Sun's main aim in the OS field is
to beat Linux. I keep telling them, hey, fight against Microsoft, but they
probably want to compete with real Operating Systems and not with Microsoft
crap...

.u$e.
Cheers .$$$$$:S
Jakub $"*$/"*$$
$.`$ . ^F
4k+#+T.$F
-------------------------------------------------------------- 4P+++"$"$ ---
Jakub Jelinek, jj@sunsite.mff.cuni.cz :R"+ t$$B
Administrator of SunSITE Czech Republic ___# $$$
MFF, Charles University, Prague | | R$$k 
---------------------------------------------------------- dd. | Linux $!$
Give your Sparc a new beginning - SparcLinux ddd | Sparc $9$F
-------------------------------------------------------- '!!!!!$ !!#!`
!!!!!* .!!!!!`
'!!!!!!!W..e$$!!!!!!`
"~^^~ ^~~^
Re: Solaris source
Peter Rasmussen (plr@isgtec.com)
Tue, 29 Apr 97 09:25 EDT 

Looking around Sun's web site I wasn't able to get any information about this.
Even using their search engine on ScholarPAC said it wasn't there.

As all this sounds too good to be true (for Linux) I would like to ask you
if you could qualify it a little better? Scams are too easy to produce on a
computer these days, so an independant site telling about it would be nice.

Thanks,

Peter

--
main(){char*s="O_>>^PQAHBbPQAHBbPOOH^^PAAHBJPAAHBbPA_H>BB";int i,j,k=1,l,m,n;
for(j=0;j<7;j++)for(l=0;m=l-6+j,i=m/6,n=j*6+i,k=1<< m%6,l<41-j;l++)
putchar(l<6-j?' ':l==40-j?'\n':k&&s[n]&k?'*':' ');}
Re: Solaris source
Larry McVoy (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:46:20 -0700 

: Looking around Sun's web site I wasn't able to get any information about this.
: Even using their search engine on ScholarPAC said it wasn't there.
: 
: As all this sounds too good to be true (for Linux) I would like to ask you
: if you could qualify it a little better? Scams are too easy to produce on a
: computer these days, so an independant site telling about it would be nice.

Look at my web page, read the freeos paper. The sourcedeal is something I
worked on back at Sun. I received confirmation from the VP of desktops
and a sales engineer. I don't know the NDA details but it is a real thing
not a scam.
Re: Solaris source
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:44:07 +0100 (BST) 

> Alpha Linux (pardon the pun) allowing you to run Intel Linux binaries
> such as Applix/Netscape, I wonder how much work Solaris emulation on
> Alpha Linux would be?

Some like the solaris x86 JDK would be tricky. Most stuff shouldnt be hard
given the iBCS module

Alan
Re: Solaris source
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:52:21 +0100 (BST) 

> > * Leading UNIX technology source code available at no cost -provided-=20
> > another product is on the same purchase order =20

Umm. I didnt know Linux came free with it

> > * Competes with Linux strategy

Yeah right. Spot the free license, and the lack of NDA folks. I think they
missed the boat (actually they are in the wrong ocean)

> > Q. Does this mean that my changes might be used in a future release of
> > Solaris?
> > 
> > A. Yes, at Sun's own discretion.

And gee they get to sell your fixes for you.

Still judging by the extant 2.5.1 socket bug this is the only chance people
have of getting Solaris stable.

> > Q. Where do I get a copy of the source code license agreement?
> > A. Your geo legal counsel.

It takes a legal counsel to show you their NDA ;)


Alan
Re: Solaris source
Alan Cox (alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:16:47 +0100 (BST) 

> Several people in Sun already told me that Sun's main aim in the OS field is
> to beat Linux. I keep telling them, hey, fight against Microsoft, but they
> probably want to compete with real Operating Systems and not with Microsoft
> crap...

I guess someone that end has taken it personally. Pity because if Sun just 
carried on as normal they'd be making 10% or whatever of the price of an
ultrasparc (like $1000+) profit a unit give or take $10 or less depending
if they went Solaris or Linux. 

Someone has something screwy 8)
Re: Solaris source
Jim Willette (jwalther@citytel.net)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:51:10 -0700 (PDT) 

> Several people in Sun already told me that Sun's main aim in the OS field is
> to beat Linux. I keep telling them, hey, fight against Microsoft, but they
> probably want to compete with real Operating Systems and not with Microsoft
> crap...

No. Its because the idea of going up against the Microsoft behemoth
scares the piss out of them. Why attack someone stronger when you can
attack someone weaker? I just hope we have the strength to withstand this
attack. We will all be hindered, and M$ will only benefit.

Basically, Sun is NO better than M$, it just happens to be smaller and
thus seen as the underdog.

SirDibos

http://www.linuxos.org/
Re: Solaris source
David S. Miller (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:51:56 -0400

From: Julio Sanchez < jsanchez@esegi.es>
Date: 29 Apr 1997 12:48:06 +0200

That would be silly of Sun. I do not consider Sun, HP, Digital,
etc. as Linux enemies. I think that their success is good for
Linux. And Linux success can only be good for them. They may see
it as a menace, but they are shortsighted. In the long run,
widespread use of Linux may keep their UNIX offerings viable
against Microsoft's growth.

Let's not fall pray to a "divide and conquer" strategy.

Like other companies, SunSoft would like to continue to exist.
SunSoft's existance depends upon things like Solaris selling well, if
Linux poses any sort of threat to Solaris's sales they will strike
back because without sales of Solaris, SunSoft would soon be history.

Unlike some other Unix vendors, Sun's software department is not
firmly engulfed inside their hardware department, they are a complete
seperate entity, so thus cannot depend on hardware sales to get them
out of a rut should Solaris sales go down considerably.

---------------------------------------------////
Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & ////
199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s ////
ethernet. Beat that! ////
-----------------------------------------////__________ o
David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ ><
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
SethMeister G. (consp05@binghamton.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:24:30 -0400 (EDT) 

Forwarded message:
> 
> > Several people in Sun already told me that Sun's main aim in the OS field is
> > to beat Linux. I keep telling them, hey, fight against Microsoft, but they
> > probably want to compete with real Operating Systems and not with Microsoft
> > crap...
> 
> No. Its because the idea of going up against the Microsoft behemoth
> scares the piss out of them. Why attack someone stronger when you can

Sorry -- I can hold my voice no longer. This is just plain bullshit. 
Sun has a commitment to be competitive with Microsoft; what the hell do 
you think Solaris/x86 is for? Crappy desktops? No. Its to compete with 
the windows NT market on mid to high-range servers.

> attack someone weaker? I just hope we have the strength to withstand this
> attack. We will all be hindered, and M$ will only benefit.

I don't think (despite what that dude from SGI said) that Sun is 
competing with Linux, nor do I beleive that it is their aim. Being a Sun 
employee myself (and no I don't speak for them) I can tell you this for 
certain.

> 
> Basically, Sun is NO better than M$, it just happens to be smaller and
> thus seen as the underdog.

When's the last time you saw Sun bully smaller companies into selling out?
Gimme a break.

-S
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
David S. Miller (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:35:14 -0400 

From: "SethMeister G." < consp05@binghamton.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:24:30 -0400 (EDT)

I don't think (despite what that dude from SGI said) that Sun is
competing with Linux, nor do I beleive that it is their aim. Being
a Sun employee myself (and no I don't speak for them) I can tell
you this for certain.

Then what possible other aim could they possibly have, especially
since they mention Linux specifically as one of the incentives behind
their "free Solaris source" marketing announcement?

I don't know, if they have other real incentives behind this act, so
be it. But people are certainly going to view it as being a "Sun
vs. Linux" thing no matter what the truth actually is.

---------------------------------------------////
Yow! 11.26 MB/s remote host TCP bandwidth & ////
199 usec remote TCP latency over 100Mb/s ////
ethernet. Beat that! ////
-----------------------------------------////__________ o
David S. Miller, davem@caip.rutgers.edu /_____________/ / // /_/ ><
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
SethMeister G. (consp05@binghamton.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:52:56 -0400 (EDT) 

> 
> From: "SethMeister G." < consp05@binghamton.edu>
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:24:30 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> I don't think (despite what that dude from SGI said) that Sun is
> competing with Linux, nor do I beleive that it is their aim. Being
> a Sun employee myself (and no I don't speak for them) I can tell
> you this for certain.
> 
> Then what possible other aim could they possibly have, especially
> since they mention Linux specifically as one of the incentives behind
> their "free Solaris source" marketing announcement?

Sorry I didn't address that one :) I don't think that announcement came 
from Sun; I think it is bogus. I don't think Sun would EVER say 
something like "This competes against the Linux blah blah"; it just does 
not sound like them!


-S
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
Larry McVoy (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:05:47 -0700 

: > since they mention Linux specifically as one of the incentives behind
: > their "free Solaris source" marketing announcement?
: 
: Sorry I didn't address that one :) I don't think that announcement came 
: from Sun; I think it is bogus. I don't think Sun would EVER say 
: something like "This competes against the Linux blah blah"; it just does 
: not sound like them!

A Sun VP says you are wrong.
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
SethMeister G. (consp05@binghamton.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:26:52 -0400 (EDT) 

> : > since they mention Linux specifically as one of the incentives behind
> : > their "free Solaris source" marketing announcement?
> : 
> : Sorry I didn't address that one :) I don't think that announcement came 
> : from Sun; I think it is bogus. I don't think Sun would EVER say 
> : something like "This competes against the Linux blah blah"; it just does 
> : not sound like them!
> 
> A Sun VP says you are wrong.

Who is this Sun VP? I'll call him personally. 

-Seth
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
David S. Miller (davem@jenolan.rutgers.edu)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:53:47 -0400 

From: "SethMeister G." < consp05@binghamton.edu>
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:26:52 -0400 (EDT)

> A Sun VP says you are wrong.

Who is this Sun VP? I'll call him personally. 

One set of dirty trousers coming right up...
Re: Solaris source (fwd)
Larry McVoy (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:18:25 -0700 

: > : > since they mention Linux specifically as one of the incentives behind
: > : > their "free Solaris source" marketing announcement?
: > : 
: > : Sorry I didn't address that one :) I don't think that announcement came 
: > : from Sun; I think it is bogus. I don't think Sun would EVER say 
: > : something like "This competes against the Linux blah blah"; it just does 
: > : not sound like them!
: > 
: > A Sun VP says you are wrong.
: 
: Who is this Sun VP? I'll call him personally. 

FLAME ON:

Hey, Mr Butthead that think's I'm not telling the truth. Where the hell
do you get off questioning my word? Hmmm? Jerk.

The VP in question is Ken Okin, Vice President of desktop systems in Sun
Microsystems Computer Corporation, my former boss and a personal friend.
He is also the person that paid me to work on the free operating system
proposal for about 9 months. Work that resulted in Sunsoft spending
$89 million to buy out all rights to AT&T SVR4 license fees and now has
resulted in Sunsoft finally seeing the light and giving up the code.

It's safe to say that both I and Ken have more than passing knowledge
of this deal and I resent like hell some little pip squeak suggesting
I made up some VP out of nowhere.

Feel free to give Ken a call. Try and treat him with a bit more respect
than you treated me. 

FLAME OFF.
Re: Solaris source
Larry McVoy (lm@neteng.engr.sgi.com)
Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:28:09 -0700 

For all of you that haven't found it, my web page is 

http://reality.sgi.com/lm

Unless my mailer is screwing up it is also in my .signature.

Furthermore, I've received confirmation on the Solaris source deal
from

. A Sun (SMCC) VP (Okin)
. A Sun sales rep (Henningsen)
. A former Sun manager (Kessler)
. http://www.sun.com/edu/hot/hot.html

That's too many people for it to be a hoax.

On top of that, it makes perfect sense for Sun to do this. The primary
motivation is the research community which has been migrating to Linux
in droves. The deal is that researchers can easily collaborate using the
Linux source base but it is much more difficult with Solaris. This has
been a problem for Sun for years but there has never been an alternative.
Now that Linux is widely available and PCs are as fast as Suns, what's
the advantage of a Sun?

If you were Sun, what would you do?