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From: Greg Lehey <g...@lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/27
Message-ID: <20000127153820.T53307_freebie.lemis.com@ns.sol.net>#1/1
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X-To: "Joerg B. Micheel" <jo...@begemot.org>
X-Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <s...@moe.2bsd.com>, p...@minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au,
Newsgroups: sol.lists.freebsd.chat

On Thursday, 27 January 2000 at 18:04:06 +1300, Joerg Micheel wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2000 at 02:56:02PM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 26 January 2000 at 17:42:54 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>>>> From: "Joerg B. Micheel" <jo...@begemot.org>
>>>> I think, popularity of Solaris might rather be restricted by its
>>>> performance. I have run Solaris x86 on my desktop for a while for
>>>
>>> 	Agreed.  I have run Solaris (only up thru 2.6 though) in its
>>> 	"native" environment (Sun hardware) and even there the performance
>>> 	is not anything one would write home about.  The difference between
>>> 	SunOS 4.1.x and Solaris 2.x is dramatic in favor on the older leaner
>>> 	system.
>>
>> That's my experience too, but it may not be typical.  For a large
>> system with a large number of processes (e.g. ftp server) the
>> comparison could be very different.
>
> That would make quite an interesting test. How much does
> ftp.cdrom.com gain by running FreeBSD instead of Solaris ?

Good question.  My guess is that Solaris 2 just couldn't handle that
many connections, but it compete reasonably well with fewer
connections (say 1000).  I'll copy the FreeBSD chat people and see
what they think.

For -chat: Sun have announced their intention to release the source
code of Solaris [2.]8.  We're discussing what this means.  See
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/source/ for more details.

Greg
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From: Jonathon McKitrick <j...@dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/27
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dogma.freebsd-uk.eu.org.newsgate.clinet.fi>#1/1
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Message too convoluted to tell who actually wrote this....but i
believe Greg wrote the second group of lines....

>> That would make quite an interesting test. How much does
>> ftp.cdrom.com gain by running FreeBSD instead of Solaris ?
>
>Good question.  My guess is that Solaris 2 just couldn't handle that
>many connections, but it compete reasonably well with fewer
>connections (say 1000).  I'll copy the FreeBSD chat people and see
>what they think.

Interestingly, i noticed recently that the response time on usa.net
seemed much slower.  It appears consistently so, either by ppp
connection or by network/T1 line.  A few months ago, netcraft showed 
that they were running FreeBSD.  Guess what they are running
now? Yup... SOlaris.  I dropped them a line saying i noticed the speed
difference.

-=> jm <=-

"I've done questionable things, also extraordinary things....
Revel in your time!"



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From: Dann Lunsford <d...@greycat.com>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/28
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On Thu, Jan 27, 2000 at 01:02:23PM +0000, Jonathon McKitrick wrote:
> 
> Interestingly, i noticed recently that the response time on usa.net
> seemed much slower.  It appears consistently so, either by ppp
> connection or by network/T1 line.  A few months ago, netcraft showed 
> that they were running FreeBSD.  Guess what they are running
> now? Yup... SOlaris.  I dropped them a line saying i noticed the speed
> difference.

Why do you think a lot of people call it Slowlaris?  Another illustration:
A group at work uses a Sun box as a license server; it's also the only
machine in that room (bunch of HP-UX stripped-down workstations) with
a CD-reader attached (Hey this is state government, OK?  Spend the 
taxpayers money on 4 Origin 2000's and a .5TB(!) disk array to run
web servers, that's OK, but get CD's for workstations?  No, too 
expensive!), and thus the only machine they can read their GIS data
on.  Old Sun CD finally dies.  I tell them they need to order a
new one, give them the specs.  New reader arrives:  It's a 36X drive, 
from some PC place, not Sun, It *is* SCSI, though, Hook it up, probe-scsi
recognizes it correctly,  Solaris gets overruns, tries to negotiate,
fails, etc.  Hook it to an identically configured, hardware-wise, Sun
running OpenBSD (on my desk, natch), works great. Hook it to a different
Sun running Slowlaris, errors abound.  Several other admins
I know report similar things.  The Slowlaris drivers simply can't keep
up,  So now they're using the drive I originally had on *my* machine 
(a Sun drive), and I'm using their new drive.  Happy ending!

I suspect, when Sun releases the source for Slowlaris, that we will hear
the sound of a lot of hackers getting physically sick from reading it.

-- 
Dann Lunsford       The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
d...@greycat.com    is that men of good will do nothing.  --  Cicero


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From: Greg Lehey <g...@lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/27
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On Thursday, 27 January 2000 at  6:47:13 -0800, Dann Lunsford wrote:
>
> I suspect, when Sun releases the source for Slowlaris, that we will hear
> the sound of a lot of hackers getting physically sick from reading it.

I've seen it.  It's not that bad.

Greg
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From: Dann Lunsford <d...@greycat.com>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/28
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On Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 08:59:30AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Thursday, 27 January 2000 at  6:47:13 -0800, Dann Lunsford wrote:
> >
> > I suspect, when Sun releases the source for Slowlaris, that we will hear
> > the sound of a lot of hackers getting physically sick from reading it.
> 
> I've seen it.  It's not that bad.
> 
Hmmmm... OK.  Coming from you, I'll accept that :-).  Now, How Bad Is It?
-- 
Dann Lunsford       The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil
d...@greycat.com    is that men of good will do nothing.  --  Cicero


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From: Greg Lehey <g...@lemis.com>
Subject: Re: Sun release source code for Solaris 8
Date: 2000/01/28
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On Thursday, 27 January 2000 at 20:46:09 -0800, Dann Lunsford wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 08:59:30AM +1030, Greg Lehey wrote:
>> On Thursday, 27 January 2000 at  6:47:13 -0800, Dann Lunsford wrote:
>>>
>>> I suspect, when Sun releases the source for Slowlaris, that we will hear
>>> the sound of a lot of hackers getting physically sick from reading it.
>>
>> I've seen it.  It's not that bad.
>>
> Hmmmm... OK.  Coming from you, I'll accept that :-).  Now, How Bad Is It?

How should I describe it (without being sued :-)?

I don't think you'd see that much difference from FreeBSD in most
cases.  I don't think Sun has a bde, but you'd really need to see the
big picture to get upset by anything.  Any particular source you'd
like me to compare?  Bear in mind that the source tree layout is very
different, and it obviously doesn't make much sense to compare
something imported from Berkeley, but if you point to a specific
functionality, I'll take a look.

Greg
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From: Mike Mann <m...@kempston.net>
Subject: Solaris 8 is almost free (with source code)
Date: 2000/01/29
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Sun have announced that Solaris 8 will be released on March 5th with
release of the source code on May 3rd.

From Solaris 8, Sun are no longer charging licensing fees for Solaris
or for the source code: the OS and its source code is available for
personal and commercial use at no charge other than the cost of media
and shipping.

More information at:

http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/cover/sol8.html

http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/index.html

Regards, Mike.

-- 
Solaris on Intel: http://www.kempston.net/solaris/
PGP public key available by mail from p...@kempston.net

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