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From: "Stephen Frazier" <ste...@doc.state.ok.us>
Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] Darkstar Development Project
Date: 2000/09/13
Message-ID: <linux.kernel.001001c01dc6$38c8fcc0$a6133ecc@99_SteveF2.doc.state.ok.us>#1/1
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X-To: "mberglund" <m...@realestatesafari.com>, "Geert Uytterhoeven" <ge...@linux-m68k.org>
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X-Cc: "Ralf Baechle" <r...@uni-koblenz.de>, "Jamie Lokier" 
<l...@tantalophile.demon.co.uk>, <linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org>, "Linux on 390 Port" 
<LINUX-...@VM.MARIST.EDU>, "Linux Kernel Official Mailing List" 
<linux-ker...@vger.kernel.org>
Reply-To: <ste...@doc.state.ok.us>
Newsgroups: mlist.linux.kernel

Does *BSD run on S390?

Stephen Frazier
Oklahoma Department of Corrections

-----Original Message-----
On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:

I just thought I would remind all the nay-sayers that the *BSD world has
been doing something along this line since at least 1990. While some of
the programs have changed, the functionality has remained largely the
same.



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From: mberglund <m...@realestatesafari.com>
Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] Darkstar Development Project
Date: 2000/09/13
Message-ID: <linux.kernel.Pine.LNX.4.21.0009132206550.451-100000@europa.rcinfo.net>#1/1
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X-Cc: Geert Uytterhoeven <ge...@linux-m68k.org>, Ralf Baechle <r...@uni-koblenz.de>, 
Jamie Lokier <l...@tantalophile.demon.co.uk>, "linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org" 
<linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org>, Linux on 390 Port <LINUX-...@VM.MARIST.EDU>, 
Linux Kernel Official Mailing List  <linux-ker...@vger.kernel.org>
Newsgroups: mlist.linux.kernel

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Stephen Frazier wrote:

> Does *BSD run on S390?

Ummm, hello, NO they do not. This is at least PART of the point. I
believe now is my chance to get out my clue-by-four.

FreeBSD has a GREAT idea(and really NetBSD as well). We might want to
consider adopting that idea. In this case, if we work toward a standard
base system across platforms it will be that much more simple to scale
up. Unix has notoriously been a pain to move from platform to platform
because of 'little differences here and there'. 

Lets remove this obstacle, however small. Make it a little easier to
migrate up to your 'big iron'. 

Because Linux already runs on a couple of platforms even NetBSD does not
run on, it seems logical to take their good ideas and steal them while we
have the edge!!!! Otherwise, one day we will wake up and they WILL run on
S390 and the like.

Currently it would be easier for us to organise just a little more than
it would be for them to get the those platforms up and running. I doubt it
will be that way forever.
 
This is an issue of using those good ideas that we might lack, and in this
case, I am certain we lack this kind of and quality of userland and system
and kernel integration.

We need some help getting the website built and getting some of this kind
of material documented. If we can do this, the word may travel a little
better. And (hopefully) clearer.

I hope this more clearly explains some of ideas and why thier ideas may be
good ones. And if not, give the BSD update system a shot. If you are an
admin I am sure you will like at least some of the functionality.


Later,
Matt


PS: If FreeBSD DID run on PPC and S390 and offer the company I work for
all the growth potential Linux does, there is a good chance that I would
already be there. I don't want this to happen, so I am hoping that
instead, we can raise the level of integration and upgradability here. I
would hate to have to trade my penguin in for a devil!

Unix is best described as an old, sturdy tree.
It is well structured, always growing, and has passed the test of time.


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From: "David A. Gatwood" <dgatw...@deepspace.mklinux.org>
Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] Darkstar Development Project
Date: 2000/09/14
Message-ID: 
<linux.kernel.Pine.LNX.3.96.1000914094838.5676A-100000@deepspace.mklinux.org>#1/1
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X-cc: Stephen Frazier <ste...@doc.state.ok.us>, Geert Uytterhoeven 
<ge...@linux-m68k.org>, Ralf Baechle <r...@uni-koblenz.de>, Jamie Lokier 
<l...@tantalophile.demon.co.uk>, "linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org" 
<linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org>, Linux on 390 Port <LINUX-...@VM.MARIST.EDU>, 
Linux Kernel Official Mailing List  <linux-ker...@vger.kernel.org>
Newsgroups: mlist.linux.kernel

On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, mberglund wrote:

> Because Linux already runs on a couple of platforms even NetBSD does not
> run on,

And vice-versa, last I checked.  Let's be fair here.  :-)


> PS: If FreeBSD DID run on PPC and S390 and offer the company I work for

NetBSD runs on lots of PPC machines, although I don't think it runs on the
S390.  Their ofppc port doesn't have a supported models list on the main
NetBSD site....


> all the growth potential Linux does, there is a good chance that I would
> already be there. I don't want this to happen, so I am hoping that
> instead, we can raise the level of integration and upgradability here. I
> would hate to have to trade my penguin in for a devil!

I agree with the goal, although perhaps not the reason for it.  I think
that's the wrong way to look at it. I think all the free 'NIXers should
see this as an opportunity to take free code and concepts and leverage it
to our advantage, while at the same time, giving back those advantages to
the groups that gave them to us.  The Penguin and the Daemon need not be
mortal enemies.

Indeed, the linux port I work most with is very nearly a linux kernel
running on top of a BSD one (Mach, to be precise, but it shows its BSD
heritage well).  I've borrowed code from the *BSDs frequently, and I've
always let both them and the monolithic Linux guys borrow my code whenever
it was helpful, because I believe in the free flow of ideas among
open-sourcers.

I dream of a day when little black and white children and little red
children can... oops... wrong speech....  ;-)  But you get the idea.  Our
biggest strength would be in embracing all that is different and unique
yet open, and sharing resources and ideas.  Don't fear the daemon.  Use
it.  Learn from it.


David

---------------------------------------------------------------------
A brief Haiku:

Microsoft is bad.
It seems secure at first glance.
Then you read your mail.

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From: Rik van Riel <r...@conectiva.com.br>
Subject: RE: [ANNOUNCE] Darkstar Development Project
Date: 2000/09/14
Message-ID: 
<linux.kernel.Pine.LNX.4.21.0009141456110.1354-100000@duckman.distro.conectiva>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 669752042
Approved: n...@nntp-server.caltech.edu
X-To: "David A. Gatwood" <dgatw...@deepspace.mklinux.org>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-cc: mberglund <m...@realestatesafari.com>, Stephen Frazier 
<ste...@doc.state.ok.us>, Geert Uytterhoeven <ge...@linux-m68k.org>, 
Ralf Baechle <r...@uni-koblenz.de>, Jamie Lokier <l...@tantalophile.demon.co.uk>, 
"linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org" <linuxppc-...@lists.linuxppc.org>, Linux on 390 Port 
<LINUX-...@VM.MARIST.EDU>, Linux Kernel Official Mailing List  
<linux-ker...@vger.kernel.org>
Newsgroups: mlist.linux.kernel

On Thu, 14 Sep 2000, David A. Gatwood wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, mberglund wrote:
> 
> > Because Linux already runs on a couple of platforms even NetBSD does not
> > run on,
> 
> And vice-versa, last I checked.  Let's be fair here.  :-)

Indeed. Until Linux has support for the Sega Dreamcast
NetBSD is still the system of choice for ultra-cheap
CPU power ;)

> Indeed, the linux port I work most with is very nearly a linux
> kernel running on top of a BSD one (Mach, to be precise, but it
> shows its BSD heritage well).  I've borrowed code from the *BSDs
> frequently, and I've always let both them and the monolithic
> Linux guys borrow my code whenever it was helpful, because I
> believe in the free flow of ideas among open-sourcers.
> 
> Our biggest strength would be in embracing all that is different
> and unique yet open, and sharing resources and ideas.  Don't
> fear the daemon.  Use it.  Learn from it.

Indeed. It would be so good for everybody if the Linux
developers and the developers from the 4 BSDs would talk
to each other more and develop good ideas together, in a
friendly competition with each other ...

[With the design of the new VM, we had a lot of help from
Matt Dillon - who made the FreeBSD VM - and we're of course
giving back any ideas we come across so FreeBSD VM can be
improved too. It is my personal hope that both Linux and
FreeBSD VM will raise the bar for virtual memory management
a little bit over the next year or so.]

regards,

Rik
--
"What you're running that piece of shit Gnome?!?!"
       -- Miguel de Icaza, UKUUG 2000

http://www.conectiva.com/		http://www.surriel.com/

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