Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06! sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: ne...@nevermind.kiev.ua (Alexandr Kovalenko) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:54:20 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 28 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mdss$13ol$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044298460 36630 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 18:54:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 18:54:20 +0000 (UTC) I don't think that reason for removing dillon@'s commit bit is very secret. Why it was not publishied, only Message-Id: from closed developers@ list? I think we (FreeBSD users/contributors community) need to know why. I suspect it was a some internal war (maybe offending postings/commit logs/etc) I don't know exactly what it was. I don't think it was enough to remove his commit bit. With that reason we then should also remove obrien@'s commit bit (he also was a little bit offending sometimes). But, I think it is not the right way to solve any problems. We are living in civilized world, we have tongue, not fingers (to commit removal from access) to solve conflicts. Please, either disclose the reason for dillon@'s commit bit removal with explanations or give it back to him or I will switch to linux. P.S. Dillon, thank you for you work and I hope that you will continue to help improving it. Your patch for unionfs works perfectly here in almost production environment! -- NEVE-RIPE, will build world for food Ukrainian FreeBSD User Group http://uafug.org.ua/ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06! sn-xit-09!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! newsgate.cuhk.edu.hk!spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw! FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: rs...@online.fr (Rahul Siddharthan) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:22:50 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 21 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mfia$150m$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044300170 37911 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 19:22:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 19:22:50 +0000 (UTC) Alexandr Kovalenko <ne...@nevermind.kiev.ua> wrote: > I don't think that reason for removing dillon@'s commit bit is very > secret. Why it was not publishied, only Message-Id: from closed > developers@ list? While I hate to pick up on a topic first posted by the project's pet troll, I have to second Alexandr here. As a longtime user I certainly want to know: what's going on? Dillon isn't any ordinary committer -- he is perhaps the guy most responsible for making FreeBSD 4.x the most rugged and stress-proof free operating system in existence. (Not to mention his indirect contributions to fixing the linux VM: his reputation extends beyond FreeBSD.) The mailing list archives offer no clue. Surely some explanation, and not just to developers@, is required when his name is scratched out. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08! supernews.com!38.144.126.75.MISMATCH!feed1.newsreader.com!newsreader.com! news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! News.Math.NCTU.edu.tw!news.dragon2.net!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: d...@ofug.org (Dag-Erling Smorgrav) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:01:48 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 16 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mhrc$16mv$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044302508 39648 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 20:01:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:01:48 +0000 (UTC) Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@online.fr> writes: > [why was Matt Dillon's commit bit removed] Short version: there was a difference of opinions. As for the long version - there are probably as many versions of this story as there are people involved in it. My advice is to let it lie. DES -- Dag-Erling Smorgrav - d...@ofug.org To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08! supernews.com!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com! newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw! netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: rag...@sysabend.org (Jamie Bowden) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:36:56 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 29 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mjt8$17n0$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044304616 40673 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 20:36:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:36:56 +0000 (UTC) On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@online.fr> writes: > > [why was Matt Dillon's commit bit removed] > > Short version: there was a difference of opinions. > > As for the long version - there are probably as many versions of this > story as there are people involved in it. > > My advice is to let it lie. So Matt Dillon, after spending gobs of time learning all that Dyson did for us (yet another VM guru driven out), and then improving on it gets the same treatment in the end? John left on his own terms, but from an outside observer's view, it was pretty obvious he wasn't missed in -core by very many. Jamie Bowden -- "It was half way to Rivendell when the drugs began to take hold" Hunter S Tolkien "Fear and Loathing in Barad Dur" Iain Bowen <ala...@alaric.org.uk> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-09! supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!spring.edu.tw! ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: rwat...@freebsd.org (Robert Watson) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:41:53 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 30 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mnn1$1ag4$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044308513 43525 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 21:41:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 21:41:53 +0000 (UTC) On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@online.fr> writes: > > [why was Matt Dillon's commit bit removed] > > Short version: there was a difference of opinions. I think there should be "short version", but that this is not quite it. The short of it is that Matt was unable to treat many of his fellow developers with the civility and respect that they deserve. The FreeBSD Project attempts to foster a productive environment for development; sure, as with any online community, it's going to have its share of disagreements and occasional flames. It's hard to imagine any e-mail list without occasional fiery and enthusiastic disagreement. However, there are times when individuals may step beyond the scope of what is considered reasonable, expected, or acceptable. Obviously, this is subject to interpretation and debate, but I'd ask that those passing judgement on this action take into account that this was given long and hard consideration, and that it was not a decision taken lightly or without regret. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects rob...@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01! sn-xit-09!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: rs...@online.fr (Rahul Siddharthan) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 42 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1movk$1b72$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044309812 44259 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 22:03:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:03:32 +0000 (UTC) Robert Watson wrote: > The short of it is that Matt was unable to treat many of his fellow > developers with the civility and respect that they deserve. Presumably this was on -developers or in private mail, since I can't find any serious examples in the other archives in the recent past, but on the contrary, several extremely helpful discussions from him (on the new scheduler, disk cache expiry etc). As you say, occasional disagreements and flames are a fact of life. However, as a lurker and a rather rare poster on the "technical" lists, my impression is that Matt is one of the most friendly, enthusiastic and genuinely helpful people around (apart from his unquestioned merits as a hacker). If rudeness is a criterion for having a commit bit removed, surely there must have been several candidates ahead of Matt in the queue. Or maybe it was they who eventually squashed him. > I'd ask that those passing judgement on > this action take into account that this was given long and hard > consideration, and that it was not a decision taken lightly or without > regret. I appreciate that, of course. That doesn't mean the decision doesn't worry me (or, I imagine, many other people here). I also scan the linux kernel mailing list now and then, and the flamewars there dwarf those on the freebsd lists by orders of magnitude. Nevertheless, things continue, nobody (afaik) is thrown out for bad behaviour -- at worst, Linus insists on an intermediary to filter the discussion/patches -- and very few have ever walked away in a huff. Newcomers are made to feel welcome. In contrast, time and again newbies complain about the elitist attitude of FreeBSD. That can be excused, or at least "argued away", but throwing out someone of the calibre of Matt Dillon is beyond belief. Maybe that's the real reason linux is more successful in the real world. At least the FreeBSD core team should think about it. - Rahul To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01! sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com! newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw! netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: rwat...@freebsd.org (Robert Watson) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:11:34 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 30 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mpem$1qlq$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044310294 60097 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 22:11:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:11:34 +0000 (UTC) On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > Robert Watson wrote: > > The short of it is that Matt was unable to treat many of his fellow > > developers with the civility and respect that they deserve. > > Presumably this was on -developers or in private mail, since I can't > find any serious examples in the other archives in the recent past, but > on the contrary, several extremely helpful discussions from him (on the > new scheduler, disk cache expiry etc). > > As you say, occasional disagreements and flames are a fact of life. > However, as a lurker and a rather rare poster on the "technical" lists, > my impression is that Matt is one of the most friendly, enthusiastic and > genuinely helpful people around (apart from his unquestioned merits as a > hacker). If rudeness is a criterion for having a commit bit removed, > surely there must have been several candidates ahead of Matt in the > queue. Or maybe it was they who eventually squashed him. While your thoughts on how to improve the project are appreciated, blind speculation isn't helpful for anyone. Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects rob...@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01! sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: benja...@seattlefenix.net (Benjamin Krueger) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:54:38 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 38 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mrve$2afv$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044312878 76288 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 22:54:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 22:54:38 +0000 (UTC) * Robert Watson (rwat...@freebsd.org) [030203 14:06]: > > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Rahul Siddharthan wrote: > > > Robert Watson wrote: > > > The short of it is that Matt was unable to treat many of his fellow > > > developers with the civility and respect that they deserve. > > > > Presumably this was on -developers or in private mail, since I can't > > find any serious examples in the other archives in the recent past, but > > on the contrary, several extremely helpful discussions from him (on the > > new scheduler, disk cache expiry etc). > > > > As you say, occasional disagreements and flames are a fact of life. > > However, as a lurker and a rather rare poster on the "technical" lists, > > my impression is that Matt is one of the most friendly, enthusiastic and > > genuinely helpful people around (apart from his unquestioned merits as a > > hacker). If rudeness is a criterion for having a commit bit removed, > > surely there must have been several candidates ahead of Matt in the > > queue. Or maybe it was they who eventually squashed him. > > While your thoughts on how to improve the project are appreciated, blind > speculation isn't helpful for anyone. You're absolutely right. I'm glad Core is going to explain why a valuable contributor got the boot. There is no better way to to avoid rumour mongering and blind speculation. That, after all, can only serve to hurt the project. > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects > rob...@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories Patiently waiting for the full story, -- Benjamin Krueger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01! sn-xit-09!supernews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: rwat...@freebsd.org (Robert Watson) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:06:49 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 21 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1msm9$2e0p$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044313609 79898 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 23:06:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:06:49 +0000 (UTC) On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > While your thoughts on how to improve the project are appreciated, blind > > speculation isn't helpful for anyone. > > You're absolutely right. I'm glad Core is going to explain why a > valuable contributor got the boot. There is no better way to to avoid > rumour mongering and blind speculation. That, after all, can only serve > to hurt the project. Do you really think publishing shopping lists of behavioral problems is going to solve anything? Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects rob...@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06! sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: benja...@seattlefenix.net (Benjamin Krueger) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:25:10 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 33 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mtom$2eiv$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044314710 80480 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 23:25:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:25:10 +0000 (UTC) * Robert Watson (rwat...@freebsd.org) [030203 15:01]: > > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > > > > While your thoughts on how to improve the project are appreciated, blind > > > speculation isn't helpful for anyone. > > > > You're absolutely right. I'm glad Core is going to explain why a > > valuable contributor got the boot. There is no better way to to avoid > > rumour mongering and blind speculation. That, after all, can only serve > > to hurt the project. > > Do you really think publishing shopping lists of behavioral problems is > going to solve anything? At the moment, not explaining any events which may have occured seems to be hurting the project. This does little to convey a sense of stability or trust, and the secrecy is causing many to reconsider their participation in the project. At the very least, it is a matter of respect to the project community. Core has nothing to hide, and the project belongs to all involved. If the move to remove Dillon's commit privileges truly is beneficial to the project, then why is an explaination of this so difficult to share? > Robert N M Watson FreeBSD Core Team, TrustedBSD Projects > rob...@fledge.watson.org Network Associates Laboratories -- Benjamin Krueger To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08! supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!spring.edu.tw! ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw!not-for-mail From: g...@FreeBSD.org (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:28:44 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 32 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mtvc$2eop$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044314924 80666 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 23:28:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:28:44 +0000 (UTC) On Monday, 3 February 2003 at 12:36:43 -0800, Jamie Bowden wrote: > On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Dag-Erling Smorgrav wrote: > >> Rahul Siddharthan <rs...@online.fr> writes: >>> [why was Matt Dillon's commit bit removed] >> >> Short version: there was a difference of opinions. >> >> As for the long version - there are probably as many versions of this >> story as there are people involved in it. >> >> My advice is to let it lie. > > So Matt Dillon, after spending gobs of time learning all that Dyson did > for us (yet another VM guru driven out), and then improving on it gets the > same treatment in the end? John left on his own terms, but from an > outside observer's view, it was pretty obvious he wasn't missed in -core > by very many. It's interesting how outside views can be inaccurate. dyson *was* missed. But we discovered that he was replaceable. I'd suggest you take a look at recent commit statistics in the VM subtree. You may not even recognize the name of the person who's doing most of the work at the moment. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
Path: archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-06! sn-xit-08!supernews.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp! spring.edu.tw!ctu-peer!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.chu.edu.tw!FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw! not-for-mail From: g...@FreeBSD.org (Greg 'groggy' Lehey) Newsgroups: mailing.freebsd.chat Subject: Re: dillon@'s commit bit: I object Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:40:24 +0000 (UTC) Organization: NCTU CSIE FreeBSD Server Lines: 50 Sender: nob...@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw Message-ID: <b1mul8$2f2t$1@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw> NNTP-Posting-Host: freebsd.csie.nctu.edu.tw X-Trace: FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw 1044315624 80990 140.113.17.209 (3 Feb 2003 23:40:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@FreeBSD.csie.NCTU.edu.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 23:40:24 +0000 (UTC) On Monday, 3 February 2003 at 15:19:44 -0800, Benjamin Krueger wrote: > * Robert Watson (rwat...@freebsd.org) [030203 15:01]: >> >> On Mon, 3 Feb 2003, Benjamin Krueger wrote: >> >>>> While your thoughts on how to improve the project are appreciated, blind >>>> speculation isn't helpful for anyone. >>> >>> You're absolutely right. I'm glad Core is going to explain why a >>> valuable contributor got the boot. There is no better way to to avoid >>> rumour mongering and blind speculation. That, after all, can only serve >>> to hurt the project. >> >> Do you really think publishing shopping lists of behavioral problems is >> going to solve anything? > > At the moment, not explaining any events which may have occured seems to be > hurting the project. This does little to convey a sense of stability or > trust, and the secrecy is causing many to reconsider their participation in > the project. At the very least, it is a matter of respect to the project > community. > > Core has nothing to hide, and the project belongs to all involved. If the > move to remove Dillon's commit privileges truly is beneficial to the project, > then why is an explaination of this so difficult to share? We've already given an explanation. The problem is, those of you in this thread don't think it's enough. Yes, we could do our dirty washing in public. But that wouldn't be fair to dillon. What I can say is that yes, I too have experienced dillon the way you describe him, friendly, helpful and effective. Unfortunately, he's not always like that. Consider that this was an extremely difficult decision to make. The fact that it was unanimous--the first time, I think, that we've been unanimous in anything--should give the clue that whatever the problems were, we considered them very serious, and they were impacting the project as a whole. In addition, we didn't see any prospect for improvement. I expect that won't satisfy you. Sorry about that, but I can't see a way to satisfy you without being unfair to dillon. Greg -- See complete headers for address and phone numbers To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message