Path: utzoo!utgpu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!rutgers!tut.cis.ohio-state.edu!
AI.MIT.EDU!tower
From: to...@AI.MIT.EDU (Leonard H. Tower Jr.)
Newsgroups: gnu.gcc
Subject: dwb, apple, info-gcc is not a common carrier, etc.
Message-ID: <8906080208.AA01910@wheat-chex.ai.mit.edu>
Date: 8 Jun 89 02:08:33 GMT
Sender: dae...@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu
Distribution: gnu
Organization: GNUs Not Usenet
Lines: 92

The GNUs Bulletin is to the printer.  I now have some time to devote
to these exchanges.

* READ ALL OF THIS, before replying.  I prefer e-mail replies, over
ones sent to the whole list/newsgroup.

* Thanx to Karl, Bob and others for explaining the history of the gnu
newsgroup hierarchy and how it differs from the other alternative
hierarchies and the mainstream USENET.  Particularly that they are an
extension of the GNU Project mailing lists.  And that we have a right
to moderate/filter/monitor/control them.  No new ground here.  This is
done with Internet mailing lists and USENET newsgroups.

* Thanx to Karl for his advice to sit back, cool off, and think before
posting.

* If you have NOT read them in the last year, go and read the articles
in news.announce.newusers on how to post and USENET ettiquette and
courtesy.  If they aren't there now, on your site, check back in a
week or two.  People on the mailing list side may anonymous ftp these
articles from wsmr-simtel20.army.mil under directory
PD2:<UNIX-C.USENET>.  List people off both the Internet and USENET can
ask s...@purdue.edu.

The lack of courtesy and skill in many of the recent non-technical
postings is sad.  We should all be able to do much better than the
average quality of these postings.

* The lack of focus of the recent non-technical postings is amazing.
rms asked for people comments about whether we should control the group.
And people went off in many different directions, instead of staying
focused on the question at hand.

(BTW, I read he was asking for e-mail replies, but most of you posted
instead (in violation of the usual USENET protocol as specified in the
above documents spaf maintains)).

* rms writes very well and very tightly.  His prose is often 5 times
denser than the average level on USENET (about Junior year of college)
and of much higher density than most of you are use to reading.

So, slow down when you read his prose.  Make sure you understand it.
Re-read it.  Go away and think about it.  You will still be saving
reading time over the average writing on USENET.  And gaining a lot
more.  rms' thoughts have a lot of value in them, even when you don't
agree with him.

* (In the best of mainstream USENET traditions ;-)

Dave: 

Your article about your port of gcc was posted to the wrong
newsgroup.  comp.unix.aux would have been much more appropriate
group.  Perhaps cross-posted to comp.sys.mac.

* Humor aside.  It's strange that Dave did not, at least, cross post
his original announcement to comp.unix.aux.  He is sure to find many
more people concerned about it there than here.

* I've looked at that group and notice that the bug reports about
Dave's ports are occurring there.  Good, they certainly don't belong
in info-gcc/gnu.gcc or bug-gcc/gnu.gcc.bug (unless he can demonstrate
the problem on another vendor's machine).

* etc/MAILINGSLISTS in the GNU Emacs distribution state, in reference to
info-gcc/gnu.gcc and the other lists/groups:

  They are very large lists, please don't send them anything that is not
  seriously important to many people.

Berry's announcement of his port is not seriously important to many
people on this list.  Another way he violated the charter of this
group (which is in etc/MAILINGSLISTS).

* There is no reason to end the Apple boycott yet.  As long as Apple
is pursing a look and feel monopoly, all methods of protest should be
brought to bear.  If you haven't written Apple lately, do so again!
Write Apple's local sale reps and computer stores as well!  Find new
innovative ways to protest their monopolistic ploy.

* Berry is not a poor hacker using a machine he brought before the
Apple look and feel suit.  He is an Apple employee who stands to
unethically gain from Apple attempt to take away our freedoms.

Also, I see no reason why the AUX group shouldn't start using gcc as
their production compiler that they ship and ship built systems with.
This certainly helps Apple.  Their choice and allowed under the
Copyleft (as long as they obey the Copyleft), but not helpful to those
who want programming freedom and to keep user interfaces the common
property of all.

thanx and enjoy -len