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From: par...@cs.cornell.edu (Marc Parmet)
Subject: ANNOUNCING GNU EMACS FOR THE MACINTOSH
Message-ID: < 1994Jan16.014538.5692@cs.cornell.edu>
Organization: Cornell Univ. CS Dept, Ithaca NY 14853
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 1994 01:45:38 GMT
Lines: 12
I have ported GNU Emacs 18.59 to the Macintosh. It is available using
anonymous ftp from ftp.cs.cornell.edu, in directory pub/parmet. The
current Macintosh port version is 1.12d. You are welcome to try it out.
I had hoped to wait a bit longer before announcing it to the world, to
work out more of the quirks. Word leaked out. Someone preempted my
announcement, and moreover announced an old version, 1.05d, with too
many bugs. Please take the newer version.
Marc Parmet
par...@cs.cornell.edu
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.emacs.help
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 25 May 1994 14:01:28 -0700
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If anyone is still intersted, there appears to be a rather good emacs port
for the macintosh at:
ftp.cs.cornell.edu in /pub/parmet
I've been using it and everything I've done with the unix e-macs (which isn't
that much), I've been able to do with this mac version.
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 27 May 1994 11:24:19 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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I have been following this discussion for a while and I feel I must
add something.
While I will defend the right of GNU to boycott Apple if they so choose, I
also find this policy rather nieve. I am willing to bet that if GNU
bothered to look, they could find valid reasons for boycotting every
company (even themselves). No company is perfect and all have there
faults. The question then becomes how to effect a change.
One way is through a boycott. But considering that this boycott will have
almost no effect (there do in fact exist many good editors for the
Macintosh that are shareware or free), I have to wonder what the point of
continuing it is.
Another, and probably more effective way, in this case, is for GNU to
actually produce software for the Macintosh. By doing this, they can
create a greater sympathy for their philosophy. By alienating millions of
people (who own mac's), this only results in bad feeling towards GNU and a
willingness to reject their philosophy, whether it is the right thing to do
or not.
I am saddened that GNU has, up to this time, choosen to boycott apple and
it would be my wish that this policy would change.
If anyone is interested, Marc Parmet did write an excellent port of emacs
for the macintosh. It is available at ftp.cs.cornell.edu in /pub/parmet.
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: Jym Dyer < j...@remarque.berkeley.edu>
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 30 May 1994 20:54:09 GMT
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In-reply-to: ericg@cs.uoregon.edu's message of 27 May 94 18:24:19 GMT
> I am willing to bet that if GNU bothered to look, they
> could find valid reasons for boycotting every company
> (even themselves). No company is perfect . . .
=o= What's your point? Never boycott anyone because nobody's
perfect? Isn't that kind of ridiculous?
=o= Boycotts are a most reasonable response to companies (and
other types of organizations) who are are doing something that
is particularly damaging, and which they could amend.
> considering that this boycott will have almost no effect
> (there do in fact exist many good editors for the Macintosh
> that are shareware or free), I have to wonder what the point
> of continuing it is.
=o= To address your parenthetical remark: There is far more to
GNU than Emacs, and Apple users will miss out on it unless they
persuade Apple to hem in their stupid lawyer. And even if a
boycott does fail as a democratic pressure tactic, there's no
reason not to continue it on a personal level as a matter of
conscience.
<_Jym_>
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From: f...@graphics.cs.nyu.edu (David Fox)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 31 May 1994 05:37:21 GMT
Organization: NYU Media Research Laboratory
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In-reply-to: Jym Dyer's message of 30 May 1994 20:54:09 GMT
In article <Jym.30May1994.1354@naughty-peahen>
Jym Dyer <j...@remarque.berkeley.edu> writes:
] =o= Boycotts are a most reasonable response to companies (and
] other types of organizations) who are are doing something that
] is particularly damaging, and which they could amend.
It also works to single out one of a number of equally
offensive companies, since it is easier to bring more
pressure on one company than many. Also, there is an
implicit threat to the others that they might be next.
--
David Fox xoF divaD
NYU Media Research Lab baL hcraeseR aideM UYN
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 31 May 1994 10:19:51 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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<FOX.94May31013721@first.cs.nyu.edu>
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In article <FOX.94Ma...@first.cs.nyu.edu>,
David Fox <f...@graphics.cs.nyu.edu> wrote:
>In article <Jym.30May1994.1354@naughty-peahen>
>Jym Dyer <j...@remarque.berkeley.edu> writes:
>
>] =o= Boycotts are a most reasonable response to companies (and
>] other types of organizations) who are are doing something that
>] is particularly damaging, and which they could amend.
>
>It also works to single out one of a number of equally
>offensive companies, since it is easier to bring more
>pressure on one company than many. Also, there is an
>implicit threat to the others that they might be next.
But what good does the threat/boycott do when only the smallest fraction of
people actually care about it? The GNU boycott of Apple will not cause
Apple to change and only hurts GNU. Why not try a different/better
strategy?
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From: m...@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 31 May 1994 18:16:18 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
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In-reply-to: ericg@cs.uoregon.edu's message of 31 May 1994 10:19:51 -0700
In article <2sfrjn$j...@comix.cs.uoregon.edu> er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
writes:
But what good does the threat/boycott do when only the smallest fraction of
people actually care about it? The GNU boycott of Apple will not cause
Apple to change and only hurts GNU. Why not try a different/better
strategy?
Do you have any suggestions?
--
+1 617 623 3248 (H) | The soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David,
+1 617 253 8568 (W) -+- and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
1105 Broadway | Then Jonathan made a covenant with David
Somerville, MA 02144 | because he loved him as his own soul.
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From: m...@churchy.gnu.ai.mit.edu (Michael I Bushnell)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 01 Jun 1994 23:12:50 GMT
Organization: Free Software Foundation, Cambridge, MA
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In-reply-to: ericg@cs.uoregon.edu's message of 1 Jun 1994 15:15:39 -0700
In article <2sj1ab$h...@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu> er...@cs.uoregon.edu
(MystryMan) writes:
Certainly. Stop the boycott and start supporting the software for the
Macintosh. I find GNU's philosophy towards software to be the best
thing about that company and I wish more people would follow it.
Unfortunatly, this is not going to happen if they alienate millions of
people who will (1) Never know that someone it actually doing this or (2)
reject it because of the silly boycott.
The FSF doesn't support microcompters in general. It would be so much
trouble to try and support Macintoshes that we probably wouldn't do it
anyway. The only effect would be that things would be a little easier
on *developers* of software for the Mac.
And it's the *developers* that should get hurt by the boycott, because
they are the ones that are making things worse by choosing to develop
for Apples. Yes--that's the word--"choosing".
--
+1 617 623 3248 (H) | The soul of Jonathan was bound to the soul of David,
+1 617 253 8568 (W) -+- and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.
1105 Broadway | Then Jonathan made a covenant with David
Somerville, MA 02144 | because he loved him as his own soul.
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From: t...@u.washington.edu (Tim Smith)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 2 Jun 1994 17:16:19 GMT
Organization: University of Washington School of Law, Class of '95
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MystryMan <er...@cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>Certainly. Stop the boycott and start supporting the software for the
>Macintosh. I find GNU's philosophy towards software to be the best
Is there any indication that the boycott is the reason they don't support
the Macintosh? (By "support" I mean "actively port to" rather than just
"include the diffs or config files that someone sent"). They aren't
boycotting DOS, for example, but there doesn't seem to be much offical
FSF effort to port their stuff to DOS, and DOS is a lot easier to port
most GNU stuff to than the Mac is.
--Tim Smith
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 2 Jun 1994 13:00:11 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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Yes, GNU has formally declared a boycott of apple.
Apparently, there exists a file somewhere explaining the reasons why. I
read it a while ago and found it be almost completely silly.
In article < 2sl453$a...@news.u.washington.edu>,
Tim Smith < t...@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>MystryMan < er...@cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>>Certainly. Stop the boycott and start supporting the software for the
>>Macintosh. I find GNU's philosophy towards software to be the best
>
>Is there any indication that the boycott is the reason they don't support
>the Macintosh? (By "support" I mean "actively port to" rather than just
>"include the diffs or config files that someone sent"). They aren't
>boycotting DOS, for example, but there doesn't seem to be much offical
>FSF effort to port their stuff to DOS, and DOS is a lot easier to port
>most GNU stuff to than the Mac is.
>
>--Tim Smith
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: mi...@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu (Mike Haertel)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 03 Jun 1994 00:18:05 GMT
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In-reply-to: ericg@cs.uoregon.edu's message of 2 Jun 1994 13:00:11 -0700
In article < 2sldob$o...@comix.cs.uoregon.edu> er...@cs.uoregon.edu
(MystryMan) writes:
>Yes, GNU has formally declared a boycott of apple.
>Apparently, there exists a file somewhere explaining the reasons why. I
>read it a while ago and found it be almost completely silly.
Many political actions are considered silly by those who disagree with
them. And the FSF boycott of apple is surely a political action. You
may think the boycott is useless, because it isn't doing any obvious
economic harm to Apple. However, politics deals with lots of
intangibles, such as public opinion. The Apple boycott may not have
financially hurt Apple, but it has gotten lots of publicity, and may
therefore have helped raise public awareness of an issue most people
would otherwise ignore (user interface copyrights). The FSF directors
might well believe the boycott is doing a perfectly good job of this.
If that is the case, why should they call it off? It may not hurt Apple,
but it certainly doesn't cost the FSF anything. Rather the opposite--
as others have noted, supporting the Mac OS would be a lot of work.
Speaking for myself, even if there were no Apple boycott, I probably
would not bother with adding Mac support (or even merging Mac support
contributed by someone else) into any GNU package I maintain. It just
wouldn't be worth the effort to me.
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 3 Jun 1994 16:23:23 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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In article < MIKE.94J...@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu>,
Mike Haertel < mi...@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu> wrote:
>In article < 2sldob$o...@comix.cs.uoregon.edu> er...@cs.uoregon.edu
>(MystryMan) writes:
>>Yes, GNU has formally declared a boycott of apple.
>>Apparently, there exists a file somewhere explaining the reasons why. I
>>read it a while ago and found it be almost completely silly.
>
>Many political actions are considered silly by those who disagree with
>them.
This is quite true. But what I am hoping to show that that not only is the
boycott silly, but there are rational, logical reason why and that using
other strategies would be much more effective and accomplish the same goals.
>And the FSF boycott of apple is surely a political action. You
>may think the boycott is useless, because it isn't doing any obvious
>economic harm to Apple. However, politics deals with lots of
>intangibles, such as public opinion. The Apple boycott may not have
>financially hurt Apple, but it has gotten lots of publicity, and may
>therefore have helped raise public awareness of an issue most people
>would otherwise ignore (user interface copyrights).
Just who are you refering to when you say "public opinion." I consider
myself reasonable well informed on what is happening in the computer
industry and I only found out about the boycott a couple of months ago when
I began reading these GNU groups. I have never heard it mentioned in the
major media nor in any of the common computer magazines. Granted I could
have missed it, but then what does that say? If GNU doesn't actively promot
the boycott, then what is the point?
I would be willing to bet that if you were to walk into some random
microcomputer store and ask say 10 random customers, maybe two or three would
even know who GNU is and out of those maybe one will even know they are
boycotting Apple computer. When I read this message, I asked a few people
if they were aware of it and they had no idea what I was talking about.
And as a couple of people have mentioned to me from here, GNU's efforts are
going into promotting this boycott among UNIX hackers, not the general
population of the United States - which, when it comes to microcomputers,
are the only people that matter, considering that there are plently of
people who are willing to write free/shareware software for the Macintosh, that
is, in some cases, much better then what GNU does.
>The FSF directors
>might well believe the boycott is doing a perfectly good job of this.
>If that is the case, why should they call it off?
Because if they really want Apple to change, there are better strategies.
If they believe there current boycott is working, they are sadly mistaken,
based upon my research. Sure, it might be working among some unix hackers, but
they are such a tiny minority, who are probably disposed to hating the
Macintosh anyways, that it really doesn't matter. They won't hurt the
growth of Apple in any remotely significant way.
>It may not hurt Apple,
>but it certainly doesn't cost the FSF anything. Rather the opposite--
>as others have noted, supporting the Mac OS would be a lot of work.
But, one must assume that GNU would probably do it considering that they
bother to instigate the boycott in the first place. Like it or not, companies
must continue to grow or die because of some competition that it not
tied to silly strategies. If GNU continues to ignore millions of
customers, they will not survive.
Plus, one must also note that Apple has been making significant moves towards
opening up their system. One only has to look at the way the Power PC is
comming about to see this. (But to assign any cause and effect here
would be inane without some evidence) Just curious, do you think GNU would
consider ending the boycott? IMHO, I sincerly doubt it.
One must also not that if GNU bothered to look, they could easily find
reasons to boycott SUN, IBM and every other computer company on the face of
the earth. So, I find it hard to believe that they are doing it based
only on some high moral principles, especially when other, better strategies,
not involving a boycott would be much more effective in getting there
message out.
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include < standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: egg...@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
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er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan) writes:
> One must also not that if GNU bothered to look, they could easily find
> reasons to boycott SUN, IBM and every other computer company on the face of
> the earth. So, I find it hard to believe that they are doing it based
> only on some high moral principles
It is sometimes hard to explain moral principles to people who don't
understand them. But one really must ignore reality to put Sun into
the same category as Apple, when it comes to using the legal system to
inhibit fair competition.
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 4 Jun 1994 11:52:48 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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<MIKE.94Jun2171805@majestix.cs.uoregon.edu>
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If you are going to try and start a flame war, you might as well try to be
accurate.
In anycase, I feel no need to get involved in a war of insults.
I never mentioned that one would boycott SUN, IBM, etc.. for the same
reasons that one would boycott Apple. What I did say is that if one looked
hard enough, one could find equally complelling reasons to boycott nearly
every other company on the face of the earth and the boycott would be
approximatly equally futile in getting these companies to change there ways.
In article <CquM1...@twinsun.com>, Paul Eggert <egg...@twinsun.com> wrote:
>er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan) writes:
>
>> One must also not that if GNU bothered to look, they could easily find
>> reasons to boycott SUN, IBM and every other computer company on the face of
>> the earth. So, I find it hard to believe that they are doing it based
>> only on some high moral principles
>
>It is sometimes hard to explain moral principles to people who don't
>understand them. But one really must ignore reality to put Sun into
>the same category as Apple, when it comes to using the legal system to
>inhibit fair competition.
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: ka...@ps1.yukawa.kyoto-u.ac.jp (Kenichiro Aoki)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 7 Jun 94 15:00:38
Organization: Yukawa Institute for Theoretical Physics, Kyoto, Japan.
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In-reply-to: ericg@cs.uoregon.edu's message of 4 Jun 1994 11:52:48 -0700
>>>>> On 4 Jun 1994 11:52:48 -0700, er...@cs.uoregon.edu
(MystryMan) said:
...
eric> I never mentioned that one would boycott SUN, IBM, etc.. for the same
eric> reasons that one would boycott Apple. What I did say is that if one looked
eric> hard enough, one could find equally complelling reasons to boycott nearly
eric> every other company on the face of the earth and the boycott would be
eric> approximatly equally futile in getting these companies to change there ways.
I don't want to start a flamewar either, but I am genuinely
interested. Which aspect of Sun and IBM you do consider as
"equally compelling reasons for boycott" as
the interface copyright lawsuits by apple? Since you keep on
repeating it, i am sure you can come up with lots of examples
straight away.
I am boycotting apple products and also am discouraging people
in my group from buying apple products, for various reasons
including the boycott. We are a small group and only have
around 10-20 macs bought a while ago. Anyway, if you can give me
convincing reasons why I should boycott Sun also, then I will
seriously consider it. If all other companies are as potentially
destructive as Apple to the software industry, then I will have
to stop boycotting apple.
Enlighten me.
--
Kenichiro Aoki (k...@phys.titech.ac.jp), Department of Physics,
Tokyo Institute of Technology, Oh-okayama, Meguro-ku, Tokyo, JAPAN
... posting from kyoto....
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (MystryMan)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 7 Jun 1994 12:04:12 -0700
Organization: University of Oregon Computer and Information Sciences Dept.
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In article <KAOKI.94J...@ps1.ps1.yukawa.kyoto-u.ac.jp>,
Kenichiro Aoki <k...@th.phys.titech.ac.jp> wrote:
>>>>>> On 4 Jun 1994 11:52:48 -0700, er...@cs.uoregon.edu
>(MystryMan) said:
>...
>> I never mentioned that one would boycott SUN, IBM, etc.. for the same
>> reasons that one would boycott Apple. What I did say is that if one looked
>> hard enough, one could find equally complelling reasons to boycott nearly
>> every other company on the face of the earth and the boycott would be
>> approximatly equally futile in getting these companies to change there ways.
>
>I don't want to start a flamewar either, but I am genuinely
>interested. Which aspect of Sun and IBM you do consider as
>"equally compelling reasons for boycott" as
>the interface copyright lawsuits by apple? Since you keep on
>repeating it, i am sure you can come up with lots of examples
>straight away.
I don't have an specific example right off the bat, but I know they
exist. I would probably look first at their enviromental record,
reactions to sexual harrasment suits, clear examples of racism in hiring
practices and there are many more issues I could list that would be
equally compelling to anyone to boycott a company who could not find
better ways (if they existed) of responding.
Tell, you what if you would guarantee to me that you would boycott either
SUN or IBM immediatly and without reservation if I could come up with
just one clear example in one of the issues I mentioned above, I would
happly do the research and find again those specific items that I ran across
which allowed me to make this statement. Summer is here and I will have time.
Now, I have a feeling that this kind of guarantee could not or will not
be made. And to that I would says supports my point exactly. Which is
that it only makes sense that if there exists a way to fight some bad
which works better then others, does it not make sense to try that out,
rather then stick to just one tactic? I mean, why shoot yourself in the
foot if you don't need to (without giving up the goal of bring about
the change)?
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: nat...@stc.com (Nathan K. Inada)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 7 Jun 1994 17:56:27 -0400
Organization: Software Technologies Corporation
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Please forgive the possible bad form. i do not normally post...
>>>>> "MM" == MystryMan <er...@cs.uoregon.edu> writes:
>> I don't want to start a flamewar either, but I am genuinely
>> interested. Which aspect of Sun and IBM you do consider as
>> "equally compelling reasons for boycott" as the interface
>> copyright lawsuits by apple? Since you keep on repeating it, i am
>> sure you can come up with lots of examples straight away.
MM> I don't have an specific example right off the bat, but I know
MM> they exist. I would probably look first at their enviromental
MM> record, reactions to sexual harrasment suits, clear examples of
MM> racism in hiring practices and there are many more issues I
MM> could list that would be equally compelling to anyone to boycott
MM> a company who could not find better ways (if they existed) of
MM> responding.
As someone previously pointed out, such actions are not in
direct conflict with the goals of the FSF.
The members of the FSF may find it morally abhorrent that some
corporations force their employees to wear a tie but they are
not the Neckware-Free-Corporation-Foundation and so it is not
contradictory for them to not boycott these companies.
As for the means to further their goals, sure there are different
methods. Some thought that companies should leave pre-Mandela
South Africa some thought it more constructive to stay.
It would be more constructive to debate the methods to further
the one cause the FSF has chosen to champion than to distract
their efforts with other issues no matter how worthwhile.
the GNU manifesto sez (amoung other IMHO cool things):
Why I Must Write GNU
====================
I consider that the golden rule requires that if I like a program I
must share it with other people who like it. Software sellers want to
divide the users and conquer them, making each user agree not to share
with others. I refuse to break solidarity with other users in this
way. I cannot in good conscience sign a nondisclosure agreement or a
software license agreement. For years I worked within the Artificial
Intelligence Lab to resist such tendencies and other inhospitalities,
but eventually they had gone too far: I could not remain in an
institution where such things are done for me against my will.
So that I can continue to use computers without dishonor, I have
decided to put together a sufficient body of free software so that I
will be able to get along without any software that is not free. I
have resigned from the AI lab to deny MIT any legal excuse to prevent
me from giving GNU away.
Why Many Other Programmers Want to Help
=======================================
I have found many other programmers who are excited about GNU and
want to help.
Many programmers are unhappy about the commercialization of system
software. It may enable them to make more money, but it requires them
to feel in conflict with other programmers in general rather than feel
as comrades. The fundamental act of friendship among programmers is the
sharing of programs; marketing arrangements now typically used
essentially forbid programmers to treat others as friends. The
purchaser of software must choose between friendship and obeying the
law. Naturally, many decide that friendship is more important. But
those who believe in law often do not feel at ease with either choice.
They become cynical and think that programming is just a way of making
money.
By working on and using GNU rather than proprietary programs, we can
be hospitable to everyone and obey the law. In addition, GNU serves as
an example to inspire and a banner to rally others to join us in
sharing. This can give us a feeling of harmony which is impossible if
we use software that is not free. For about half the programmers I
talk to, this is an important happiness that money cannot replace.
--------------------------------------------------
I also believe that academic freedom should protect the right of a
professor or student to advocate Marxism, socialism, communism, or any
other minority viewpoint -- no matter how distasteful to the majority.
-- Richard M. Nixon
What are our schools for if not indoctrination against Communism?
-- Richard M. Nixon
%%
I'm totally DESPONDENT over the LIBYAN situation and the price of CHICKEN..
-- Zippy the Pinhead
We'Re In Florida.
-- Vice President Dan Quayle Explaining Why He
Had Just Purchased Four Peaches (And No Citrus
Fruits -- For Which Florida Is Famous) At A Public
Supermarket In Oakland Park, Florida. Georgia (Which
IS Famous For Peaches) Did Not Gain From The Transaction,
However; The Peaches Were From Chile. (The Sunstenial)
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From: er...@cs.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 9 Jun 1994 19:34:30 -0400
Organization: GNUs Not Usenet
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On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Nathan K. Inada wrote:
> Please forgive the possible bad form. i do not normally post...
>
> >>>>> "MM" == MystryMan <er...@cs.uoregon.edu> writes:
>
> >> I don't want to start a flamewar either, but I am genuinely
> >> interested. Which aspect of Sun and IBM you do consider as
> >> "equally compelling reasons for boycott" as the interface
> >> copyright lawsuits by apple? Since you keep on repeating it, i am
> >> sure you can come up with lots of examples straight away.
>
> MM> I don't have an specific example right off the bat, but I know
> MM> they exist. I would probably look first at their enviromental
> MM> record, reactions to sexual harrasment suits, clear examples of
> MM> racism in hiring practices and there are many more issues I
> MM> could list that would be equally compelling to anyone to boycott
> MM> a company who could not find better ways (if they existed) of
> MM> responding.
>
> As someone previously pointed out, such actions are not in
> direct conflict with the goals of the FSF.
I believe it should be the goal of every company to try to make life better
for people. Unless you don't think people should worry about the deliberate
killing of children. Granted, that is an extreme example, but no less valid.
> The members of the FSF may find it morally abhorrent that some
> corporations force their employees to wear a tie but they are
> not the Neckware-Free-Corporation-Foundation and so it is not
> contradictory for them to not boycott these companies.
Agreed, but I am not talking about something as trivial as wearing a tie.
I am talking about those things that harm everyone and in some cases kill.
> As for the means to further their goals, sure there are different
> methods. Some thought that companies should leave pre-Mandela
> South Africa some thought it more constructive to stay.
Exactly. But what I hope to show is that it is more constructive to end
the boycott then to keep it going.
> It would be more constructive to debate the methods to further
> the one cause the FSF has chosen to champion than to distract
> their efforts with other issues no matter how worthwhile.
Fine. But what my whole point was that many people are following FSFs
lead in boycotting Apple and completely ignore or refuse to even consider
that alternate strategies might exist. What I am attempting to show is that
there are many other examples of where people would be just as justified to
boycott other companies as they are Apple. But in those other cases, they
either choose not to boycott or choose an alternate strategy or do nothing
at all.
Why should Apple be so special as to not deserve the same consideration?
Especally when what they are doing is orders of magnitude less harmful then
what a lot of other companies are doing and yet the same people who are
participating in the boycott of Apple do nothing or select an alternate
strategy.
===Eric Gorr================er...@cs.uoregon.edu===========aka MystryMan===
_____
|\ /| * Invincibility is in oneself, vulnerability is in the opponent
| O | * Therefore the considerations of the intelligent always include both
|/_\| benefit and harm (Sun Tzu)
#include <standard.disclamer>
=====Insults, like violence, are the last resort of the incompetent...=====
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From: fabb...@nunki.usc.edu (Frank Fabbrocino)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 9 Jun 1994 20:39:48 -0700
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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er...@cs.uoregon.edu (Eric Gorr) writes:
>On Tue, 7 Jun 1994, Nathan K. Inada wrote:
>I believe it should be the goal of every company to try to make life better
>for people. Unless you don't think people should worry about the deliberate
>killing of children. Granted, that is an extreme example, but no less valid.
...
>I am talking about those things that harm everyone and in some cases kill.
...
>Fine. But what my whole point was that many people are following FSFs
>lead in boycotting Apple and completely ignore or refuse to even consider
>that alternate strategies might exist. What I am attempting to show is that
>there are many other examples of where people would be just as justified to
>boycott other companies as they are Apple. But in those other cases, they
>either choose not to boycott or choose an alternate strategy or do nothing
>at all.
>Why should Apple be so special as to not deserve the same consideration?
>Especally when what they are doing is orders of magnitude less harmful then
>what a lot of other companies are doing and yet the same people who are
>participating in the boycott of Apple do nothing or select an alternate
>strategy.
OK Superman, FSF is boycotting Apple because what Apple is trying to do, is
to limit computer programming freedom---a freedom that will be benefit
everyone who uses computers and a freedom, if taken away, that will only
add to someone's pocketbook. FSF is *NOT* about child abuse, or poor
working environments, it's about "free" software. I suggest you reread
the GNU Manifesto.
Later,
Frank
******************************************************************
* * *
* Frank Fabbrocino * I have heard the word and the word is: *
* * All that is editing is emacs. *
* University of * All that is not editing is emacs. *
* Southern California * All that is, is emacs. *
* * Emacs is all that is. *
* fabb...@scf.usc.edu * Frank, just another Soldier of Emacs. *
* * *
******************************************************************
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news.lth.se!sundinKC
From: sundi...@dna.lth.se (Anders Sundin)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh
Date: 10 Jun 1994 09:30:19 GMT
Organization: Organic Chemistry 2, Lund University, Sweden
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fabbr...@nunki.usc.edu (Frank Fabbrocino) wrote:
>OK Superman, FSF is boycotting Apple because what Apple is trying to do, is
>to limit computer programming freedom---a freedom that will be benefit
>everyone who uses computers and a freedom, if taken away, that will only
>add to someone's pocketbook.
Does this mean that you are generally against patents on algorithms as
well as against patents on computer software and hardware?
Wouldn't it be better to build an opinion to change the copyright and
the patent laws instead of going after individual companies?
-Anders
--
Anders Sundin e-mail: Anders.Sun...@orgk2.lth.se
Organic Chemistry 2 ok2...@selund.bitnet
Lund University, P.O. Box 124 voice: +46 46 104130
S-22100 Lund, Sweden fax: +46 46 108209
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headwall.Stanford.EDU!Xenon.Stanford.EDU!hitt
From: h...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU (Daniel Hitt)
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Patents in Sweden, Germany etc (was Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh)
Date: 12 Jun 1994 04:40:12 GMT
Organization: Computer Science Department, Stanford University.
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Summary: Can one write in US and distribute elsewhere?
Keywords: patents, Sweden, Germany, Taiwan, Singapore
In article <2t9brb$...@nic.lth.se>, Anders Sundin <sundi...@dna.lth.se> wrote:
>fabbr...@nunki.usc.edu (Frank Fabbrocino) wrote:
>Does this mean that you are generally against patents on algorithms as
>well as against patents on computer software and hardware?
>
>Wouldn't it be better to build an opinion to change the copyright and
>the patent laws instead of going after individual companies?
>
>-Anders
> Lund University, P.O. Box 124 voice: +46 46 104130
What is the status of patents on software/hardware/algorithms in Sweden?
(I read somewhere that Germany, Taiwan, and Singapore did not grant
patents on software.)
Could a person, say in the US, write a program using some patented
technique like arithemtic compression, and release it (via ftp or
some such thing) in some country that did not grant patents on software?
dan
h...@cs.stanford.edu
Newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss
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From: iii...@uk.ac.swan.pyr (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Patents in Sweden, Germany etc (was Re: Emacs for Apple Macintosh)
Message-ID: <1994Jun13.121208.10343@uk.ac.swan.pyr>
Keywords: patents, Sweden, Germany, Taiwan, Singapore
Organization: Swansea University College
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In article <2te3jc$...@Times.Stanford.EDU> h...@Xenon.Stanford.EDU
(Daniel Hitt) writes:
>(I read somewhere that Germany, Taiwan, and Singapore did not grant
>patents on software.)
>
>Could a person, say in the US, write a program using some patented
>technique like arithemtic compression, and release it (via ftp or
>some such thing) in some country that did not grant patents on software?
With care yes. You can do certain things with patented material for research
and personal education. If someone ftp'd your research elsewhere and did
useful things with it well 8).... The US is almost the only country dumb
enough to allow patenting of software. Be aware that US companies before now
have 'leaned gently' on people outside the USA over such matters.
The GPL actually allows you to restrict distribution away from certain
countries if patent problems are known about.
Alan