From: l...@gnu-life.ai.mit.edu (Leonard H. Tower Jr.)
Subject: Linux and the GNU system by Richard Stallman
Date: 1996/05/31
Message-ID: <4onulk$p3t@life.ai.mit.edu>
X-Deja-AN: 157818415
sender: to...@prep.ai.mit.edu
organization: GNU Project
followup-to: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.misc,
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.advocacy
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.misc,
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.advocacy


Here is the text of the file etc/LINUX-GNU from the GNU Emacs
distribution.

I am posting it in the hope those concerned about this issue will read
and consider what rms actually has to say, instead of what people are
claiming he said.

New thoughts about additional ways to accomplish his objectives
welcome.

I am posting it to these newsgroups:
	gnu.misc.discuss
	comp.os.linux.misc
	comp.os.linux.development.apps
	comp.os.linux.advocacy
If discussion about this issue is also occurring in other newsgroups, I
ask that you re-post this article in them.

thanx -len                     http://www.ai.mit.edu/~tower/home.html
Director, Free Software Foundation
Member, League for Programming Freedom,
ask: l...@uunet.uu.net, surf: http://www.lpf.org 

----------------------------------------------------------------------

		       Linux and the GNU system

The GNU project started 12 years ago with the goal of developing a
complete free Unix-like operating system.  "Free" refers to freedom,
not price; it means you are free to run, copy, distribute, study,
change, and improve the software.

A Unix-like system consists of many different programs.  We found some
components already available as free software--for example, X Windows
and TeX.  We obtained other components by helping to convince their
developers to make them free--for example, the Berkeley network
utilities.  Other components we wrote specifically for GNU--for
example, GNU Emacs, the GNU C compiler, the GNU C library, Bash, and
Ghostscript.  The components in this last category are "GNU software".
The GNU system consists of all three categories together.

The GNU project is not just about developing and distributing free
software.  The heart of the GNU project is an idea: that software
should be free, and that the users' freedom is worth defending.  For
if people have freedom but do not value it, they will not keep it for
long.  In order to make freedom last, we have to teach people to value
it.

The GNU project's method is that free software and the idea of users'
freedom support each other.  We develop GNU software, and as people
encounter GNU programs or the GNU system and start to use them, they
also think about the GNU idea.  The software shows that the idea can
work in practice.  People who come to agree with the idea are likely
to write additional free software.  Thus, the software embodies the
idea, spreads the idea, and grows from the idea.

This method was working well--until someone combined the Linux kernel
with the GNU system (which still lacked a kernel), and called the
combination a "Linux system."

The Linux kernel is a free Unix-compatible kernel written by Linus
Torvalds.  It was not written specifically for the GNU project, but
the Linux kernel and the GNU system work together well.  In fact,
adding Linux to the GNU system brought the system to completion: it
made a free Unix-compatible operating system available for use.

But ironically, the practice of calling it a "Linux system" undermines
our method of communicating the GNU idea.  At first impression, a
"Linux system" sounds like something completely distinct from the "GNU
system."  And that is what most users think it is.

Most introductions to the "Linux system" acknowledge the role played
by the GNU software components.  But they don't say that the system as
a whole is more or less the same GNU system that the GNU project has
been compiling for a decade.  They don't say that the idea of a free
Unix-like system originates from the GNU project.  So most users don't
know these things.

This leads many of those users to identify themselves as a separate
community of "Linux users", distinct from the GNU user community.
They use all of the GNU software; in fact, they use almost all of the
GNU system; but they don't think of themselves as GNU users, and they
may not think about the GNU idea.

It leads to other problems as well--even hampering cooperation on
software maintenance.  Normally when users change a GNU program to
make it work better on a particular system, they send the change to
the maintainer of that program; then they work with the maintainer,
explaining the change, arguing for it and sometimes rewriting it, to
get it installed.

But people who think of themselves as "Linux users" are more likely to
release a forked "Linux-only" version of the GNU program, and consider
the job done.  We want each and every GNU program to work "out of the
box" on Linux-based systems; but if the users do not help, that goal
becomes much harder to achieve.

So how should the GNU project respond?  What should we do now to
spread the idea that freedom for computer users is important?

We should continue to talk about the freedom to share and change
software--and to teach other users to value these freedoms.  If we
enjoy having a free operating system, it makes sense for us to think
about preserving those freedoms for the long term.  If we enjoy having
a variety of free software, it makes sense for to think about
encouraging others to write additional free software, instead of
additional proprietary software.

We should not accept the splitting of the community in two.  Instead
we should spread the word that "Linux systems" are variant GNU
systems--that users of these systems are GNU users, and that they
ought to consider the GNU philosophy which brought these systems into
existence.

This article is one way of doing that.  Another way is to use the
terms "Linux-based GNU system" (or "GNU/Linux system" or "Lignux" for
short) to refer to the combination of the Linux kernel and the GNU
system.

Copyright 1996 Richard Stallman
Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted
without royalty as long as this notice is preserved.


----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mi...@ripco.com (Mirai)
Subject: Re: Linux and the GNU system by Richard Stallman
Date: 1996/06/12
Message-ID: <DsvLIA.ArD@rci.ripco.com>
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sender: use...@rci.ripco.com (Net News Admin)
references: <4onulk$p3t@life.ai.mit.edu> <31BB2483.2399E378@lambert.org> 
<4phfqr$q4h@hamilton.maths.tcd.ie> <31BC954A.5CC7A4D7@lambert.org>
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
STALLMAN: "At first impression, a "Linux system" sounds like something 
completely distinct from the "GNU system." And that is what most users
think it is."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

ME: [1] GNU is _not a system_ - GNU is a collection of tools.  Linux is a
real system: the kernel/distribution/device drivers/binary format/
posix certification/linux ext2fs filesystem/linux directory structure/...
If GNU was a system it would be able to obtain POSIX certification.  
Since it is _not_ an operating system it cannot.  It does not have its 
own filesystem (as does linux), nor does it have a binary executable format.

GNU can be used in whole OR in part since it is a collection of tools
and _not a system_.  GNU can be used on most major kernels/OS platforms
_on top of_ existing systems.

[2] It really sounds like Mr. Stallman should break off and form his own 
non-profit corporation and standards committee.  Call it the "Open/GNU 
Consortium" (people will go for anything with "Open" in it) and set up a 
standards committee.  Mr. Stallman can, in turn, advertise for companies to 
"apply" to the Open/GNU Consortium for certification as an official "GNU 
SYSTEM" complete with signed document with Mr. Stallman's Seal of Approval. 
In addition, Stallman is more than welcome to trademark the word
GNU(tm) and RESTRICT ITS USE, which is what he is seeking to do, although
not outright, by deeming certain distributions contrary to the GNU
idea.  FURTHERMORE, the GNU idea(tm) should also be copyrighted and
fully supported by the Open/GNU Consortium (as well as expounded upon).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
STALLMAN: "We should not accept the splitting of the community in two. 
Instead we should spread the word that "Linux systems" are variant GNU 
systems"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

[3] Once again Mr. Stallman is under the impression that he has
created an operating system; I hold the opinion that he has not, he
has merely "guided" a collection of tools.  [4] If, in fact, linux is a 
"variant GNU system" then by definition there must be a _standard_ 
GNU system.  But there is no standard GNU distribution, no www.gnu.org
website (as linux has its www.linux.org), no GNU Journal (witness Linux
Journal).  If it is Stallman's intention to communicate a STANDARD
GNU release (of tools) then it has not been communicated in an obvious
way as the Linux community has done in its dissemination of Linux 
information (HowTo's, FAQ, etc) through its own official channels.
This _should_ have been followed (from GNU) by some type of official
GNU kernel (Hurd=vaporware?) or release, and official 
GNU-specific web site, GNU standards body, etc. instead of intermittant
communiques directly from Stallman.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
TO SUMMARIZE:

[4] Stallman's need to control the political climate of free software has
become irrelavent, at this point in time, due to the *very* fact that most
people, are practicing *free* software ideals and are highly organized (in
the case of the linux community) with many channels for distribution and
participation for all in the open development of the linux system. 

[5] The GNU concept, and FSF, the monolythic "Soviet-style" centrally
planned "freedom" and philosophy has become irrelavent in today's age of 
readily available "shareware/freeware" software from the internet.  
Cheap modems and internet connections have made "free software" and
"free software development" more of a reality than the GNU idea(tm).
People are increasingly collaborating on free software projects
not because of Stallman, GNU, or the FSF, but because the economics of
cheap global communications has given us the ability to collaborate via
the internet.

[6] The move towards a Linux-centric community (rather than a GNU
centric community) is good.  It preserves "linux standards" such
as kernel signal handling, device drivers, the linux ext2fs filesystem,
distribution/installation, amount of POSIX support, to name just a few.
These issues are out of reach of GNU, since GNU is _not_ implementation
specific.  In an _implementation_ of UN*X, such that Linux is, we
are forced to deal in _specifics_ and what goes into the kernel,and what 
doesn't, how much SVR4 or BSD or POSIX compatibility one
has, etc.  Because of this, we join together, _as_ a linux community
to determine our own fate as we _all_ contribute, whether in a small
or large way, to make linux evolve as a system.  

[7] Many developers are divorcing themselves from the GNU idea(tm) and 
embracing the Artistic License, tired of the baggage Stallman brings
to the table.  Contrary to the GNU idea(tm) the Linux community is very 
comfortable mixing with both "free" as well as commercial entities.
We are not intimidated by any and all players coming into the Linux arena.
In fact, Linux will stand to benefit from the efforts of 
commercial players.  Commercial players can standardize on _systems_ such as 
linux, and not mere collection of tools - as in the case of GNU.

From: t...@maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy)
Subject: Re: Linux and the GNU system by Richard Stallman
Date: 1996/06/12
Message-ID: <4pm3me$5on@hamilton.maths.tcd.ie>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 159757378
references: <4onulk$p3t@life.ai.mit.edu> <31BB2483.2399E378@lambert.org> 
<4phfqr$q4h@hamilton.maths.tcd.ie> <31BC954A.5CC7A4D7@lambert.org> 
<DsvLIA.ArD@rci.ripco.com>
organization: Dept. of Maths, Trinity College, Dublin, Ireland.
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.misc,
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.advocacy


mi...@ripco.com (Mirai) writes:

>ME: [1] GNU is _not a system_ - GNU is a collection of tools.  Linux is a
>real system: the kernel/distribution/device drivers/binary format/
>posix certification/linux ext2fs filesystem/linux directory structure/...

and much more of the same.

This is not a legal dispute,
or a discussion of Richard Stallman's table manners.

To me, the question is quite simple:
Would it be good for Linux to be associated with GNU,
as eg by calling it (sometimes) GNU/Linux ?
[I think Stallman has dropped the "Lignux" suggestion.]

First of all, I think this is up to Linus Torvalds.
(He seems to have sometimes used the term GNU/Linux himself.)

But in my view, it _would_ be to the benefit of Linux
to have an official association with GNU.


-- 
Timothy Murphy  
e-mail: t...@maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

From: iia...@iifeak.swan.ac.uk (Alan Cox)
Subject: Re: Linux and the GNU system by Richard Stallman
Date: 1996/06/14
Message-ID: <4prom9$b80@news.swan.ac.uk>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 160319232
references: <31BC954A.5CC7A4D7@lambert.org> <DsvLIA.ArD@rci.ripco.com> 
<4pm3me$5on@hamilton.maths.tcd.ie>
organization: Institute For Industrial Information Technology
newsgroups: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.linux.misc,
comp.os.linux.development.apps,comp.os.linux.advocacy


In article <4pm3me$...@hamilton.maths.tcd.ie> t...@maths.tcd.ie 
(Timothy Murphy) writes:
>To me, the question is quite simple:
>Would it be good for Linux to be associated with GNU,
>as eg by calling it (sometimes) GNU/Linux ?

With the GNU philosophy yes. With the FSF - well I used to think so, now I
am convinced not.

Alan


-- 
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Alan Cox, Alan....@linux.org               /_____________/ / /\/ /_/ ><