From pedro@tastytronic.net Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:52:21 -0500
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:52:21 -0500
From: Peter A. Peterson II pedro@tastytronic.net
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
----- Forwarded message from Don MacAskill
<free-sklyarov@onethumb.com> -----
This came across the wire from Adobe today, I believe it's being sent to
all their partners. In it, they reaffirm their statement that
prosecuting Dmitry isn't the right thing to do.
----
Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic Frontier Foundation
(EFF) to better understand their concerns and explore ways to resolve
the issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov while preserving
Adobe and its customers' copyrights. This meeting covered concerns about
this case, and while we strongly support the Digital Millennium
Copyright Act (DMCA) and the enforcement of copyright protection of
digital content, prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this particular case is not
conducive to the best interests of any of the parties involved or the
industry. It has always been Adobe's goal to have ElcomSoft stop selling
the Advanced eBook Processor software, and this has happened.
As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF issued a joint press
release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov from federal
custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for the criminal
complaint against
Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your reference.
The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has been, and continues to
be, in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it is up to them as to
how they choose to proceed. While we are not interested in supporting
the prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to protect its
copyright interests and those of its customers.
Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the company is committed to
strengthening the security of its products. Regarding the Acrobat eBook
Reader, the company continues to make changes to the encryption scheme
of the current version the software. Adobe will continue its Web
surveillance of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF. Reports continue show
no compromised
eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer networks.
In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your patience and
support. Adobe strongly believes in copyright protection for digital
content and will continue to support technology standards bodies,
government agencies and publishing industry associations in enforcing
copyright protection on the Internet. We also look forward to continuing
the good work of the digital rights management standards group in the
OeBF (Open eBook Forum) on eBook security and encryption issues.
---
From korbomite@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 13:37:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Tough. They brought this on themselves, when they
pressured Mueller. Their stock price is intimately
tied to .pdf and Acrobat.
Continue the boycott and expand it to the members of
the BSA, the RIAA, the AAP, and the MPAA. Call for
civil disobedience...and don't just target the
DMCA...lets go after the whole troika (DMCA, EULA,
UCITA).
dedmike
--- "Peter A. Peterson II" <pedro@tastytronic.net>
wrote:
> ----- Forwarded message from Don MacAskill
> <free-sklyarov@onethumb.com> -----
>
> This came across the wire from Adobe today, I
> believe it's being sent to
> all their partners. In it, they reaffirm their
> statement that
> prosecuting Dmitry isn't the right thing to do.
>
>
> ----
>
> Monday, Adobe met with officials from the Electronic
> Frontier Foundation
>
> (EFF) to better understand their concerns and
> explore ways to resolve
> the issues surrounding the arrest of Dmitry Sklyarov
> while preserving
> Adobe and its customers' copyrights. This meeting
> covered concerns about
> this case, and while we strongly support the Digital
> Millennium
> Copyright Act (DMCA) and the enforcement of
> copyright protection of
> digital content, prosecuting Mr. Sklyarov in this
> particular case is not
> conducive to the best interests of any of the
> parties involved or the
> industry. It has always been Adobe's goal to have
> ElcomSoft stop selling
> the Advanced eBook Processor software, and this has
> happened.
>
> As a result of our meeting today, Adobe and the EFF
> issued a joint press
>
> release recommending the release of Dmitry Sklyarov
> from federal
> custody. Adobe is also withdrawing its support for
> the criminal
> complaint against
>
> Mr. Sklyarov. The press release is attached for your
> reference.
>
> The criminal complaint against Mr. Sklyarov has
> been, and continues to
> be, in the hands of the US Attorney's office and it
> is up to them as to
> how they choose to proceed. While we are not
> interested in supporting
> the prosecution of this case, Adobe will continue to
> protect its
> copyright interests and those of its customers.
>
> Security is an ongoing effort at Adobe and the
> company is committed to
> strengthening the security of its products.
> Regarding the Acrobat eBook
> Reader, the company continues to make changes to the
> encryption scheme
> of the current version the software. Adobe will
> continue its Web
> surveillance of compromised eBooks in Adobe PDF.
> Reports continue show
> no compromised
>
> eBooks on FTP, web sites or popular peer-to-peer
> networks.
>
> In conclusion, Adobe extends its gratitude for your
> patience and
> support. Adobe strongly believes in copyright
> protection for digital
> content and will continue to support technology
> standards bodies,
> government agencies and publishing industry
> associations in enforcing
> copyright protection on the Internet. We also look
> forward to continuing
> the good work of the digital rights management
> standards group in the
> OeBF (Open eBook Forum) on eBook security and
> encryption issues.
>
> ---
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.freesklyarov.org/ -- FREE DMITRY!
> sklyarov-chicago@ufo.chicago.il.us
>
http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago
From pedro@tastytronic.net Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:48:03 -0500
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:48:03 -0500
From: Peter A. Peterson II pedro@tastytronic.net
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Quoting Michael Cannon:
> Tough. They brought this on themselves, when they
> pressured Mueller. Their stock price is intimately
> tied to .pdf and Acrobat.
I acknowledge that. But I think a protest that is focusing on a small
number of unified goals is better than a group that shouts 5 different
things that to the uninitiated may seem unrelated. Also, boycotting
Adobe right now does not help us meet our immediate goals.
> Continue the boycott and expand it to the members of
> the BSA, the RIAA, the AAP, and the MPAA. Call for
> civil disobedience...and don't just target the
> DMCA...lets go after the whole troika (DMCA, EULA,
> UCITA).
I'm not going to call for civil disobedience, and I'm not going to be a
part of a protest that does -- at least not until there is no other way.
We need to stay focused and stay civil -- getting too carried away is
not going to help matters.
pedro
From sterno@bigbrother.net Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:06:11 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 17:06:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: Steve Stearns sterno@bigbrother.net
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Peter A. Peterson II wrote:
> Quoting Michael Cannon:
> > Tough. They brought this on themselves, when they
> > pressured Mueller. Their stock price is intimately
> > tied to .pdf and Acrobat.
>
> I acknowledge that. But I think a protest that is focusing on a small
> number of unified goals is better than a group that shouts 5 different
> things that to the uninitiated may seem unrelated. Also, boycotting
> Adobe right now does not help us meet our immediate goals.
Agreed. Adobe got the ball rolling but at least they've had the good
sense to back off. Let's give them some credit for that (maybe not much),
and focus our attention on the real issue at hand, a really bad law being
enforce in an even worse way.
---Steve
From korbomite@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:33:49 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Again, you're the boss...but don't you think we should
strike while the iron is hot?
Considering the attention-span of the average
'sheeple' in the American public, we won't GET a
better chance...additionally, the talk is moving to
'amending' and away from REPEALING the DMCA...finally,
the web the Korps have woven includes all of this
illegal stuff:
-EULA - contracts that are illegal in any other
context
-UCITA - protections provided to no other industry
segment (and certain provisions re-inforce the DMCA
and further criminalize Fair Use)
-DMCA - THE monster - not only civil penalties, but
criminal ones...we go to jail, deprived of our freedom
You don't see these folks as evil. I do. They are
going to try to get away with anything they can. They
are spreading this poison to other countries, via WIPO
and corporate influences. Just because something is a
treaty, doesn't mean we have to ratify it (START, ABM,
the BioWar Protocols, Kyoto).
The government and the Korps are laughing at us, or
can't you hear them? the EFF is using this to recruit
members. Adobe is using us, too. Look at their stock
price. There IS no such thing as bad publicity.
You are an organizer - THE organizer, IIRC - and I am
simply and civilly disagreeing. Without escaltion and
noise, we will be ignored and this crap wil continue
to spread.
Adobe, the MPAA, the BSA...all of them are the
problems. We are the only solution. We have the
attention of the media and the masses. It's time to
act!
I will be patient and follow orders/dirctives...but
you need to think about where we take this, Peter, and
how far you are willing to go. THAT is the
responsibility of a leader.
BTW, I destroyed ALL Adobe SW on my corporate and
personal computers at my business and here at home (I
own the business and the computers and software - I am
not advocating damage to others' property!). My
offices are now declared 'Adobe Free' areas. No
Acrobat or .pdf files are allowed. HTML only. I am
also divesting. My accountant estimates this will
cost me in excess of $15000 in lost business and
additional work next month. The divestiture's damage
will be a bit more.
For those that are interested, the link to all the
Adobe companies is:
http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/adobeventures/portfolio.html
Please notice the presence of SendMail (that includes
the 'Free' version...they are the primary developers)
and Aldus.
Finally, has anyone gotten in touch with media, either
PBS, indymedia Chicago, or the TV stations and
newspapers?
Mike
--- "Peter A. Peterson II" <pedro@tastytronic.net>
wrote:
> Quoting Michael Cannon:
> > Tough. They brought this on themselves, when they
> > pressured Mueller. Their stock price is
> intimately
> > tied to .pdf and Acrobat.
>
> I acknowledge that. But I think a protest that is
> focusing on a small
> number of unified goals is better than a group that
> shouts 5 different
> things that to the uninitiated may seem unrelated.
> Also, boycotting
> Adobe right now does not help us meet our immediate
> goals.
>
> > Continue the boycott and expand it to the members
> of
> > the BSA, the RIAA, the AAP, and the MPAA. Call
> for
> > civil disobedience...and don't just target the
> > DMCA...lets go after the whole troika (DMCA, EULA,
> > UCITA).
>
> I'm not going to call for civil disobedience, and
> I'm not going to be a
> part of a protest that does -- at least not until
> there is no other way.
> We need to stay focused and stay civil -- getting
> too carried away is
> not going to help matters.
>
> pedro
From korbomite@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:49:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
You folks really don't understand how this workded, do
you?
Adobe ACTIVELY lobbied for the law. They continue to
lobby for its continuation. They pressured the US
Attorney to divert investigatory resources from
investigation of things like the RedAlert worm, the
SirCAM virus, terrorists and armed bank robbery to
pursue this to the conclusion we are at now. They had
another avenue, considering they began this a month
before Dmitry entered the country: instead of the US
Attorney, they could have opposed Dmitry's entry into
the US by protesting to the State Department. Dmitry
would have had his visa cancelled and would never have
been able to come here.
Do you see that the arrest and illegal detention of
this man was their purpose all along?
I'll say it again: they (Adobe) could have opposed
Dmitry's entry into the country. He would still be
at home with his family! See?
BTW, do I need to start providing web links to this
stuff, or maybe compose a seperate web page?
Mike
--- Steve Stearns <sterno@bigbrother.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Peter A. Peterson II wrote:
>
> > Quoting Michael Cannon:
> > > Tough. They brought this on themselves, when
> they
> > > pressured Mueller. Their stock price is
> intimately
> > > tied to .pdf and Acrobat.
> >
> > I acknowledge that. But I think a protest that is
> focusing on a small
> > number of unified goals is better than a group
> that shouts 5 different
> > things that to the uninitiated may seem unrelated.
> Also, boycotting
> > Adobe right now does not help us meet our
> immediate goals.
>
> Agreed. Adobe got the ball rolling but at least
> they've had the good
> sense to back off. Let's give them some credit for
> that (maybe not much),
> and focus our attention on the real issue at hand, a
> really bad law being
> enforce in an even worse way.
>
> ---Steve
>
From korbomite@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 20:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Even though Adobe instigated this specifically to deny
this man his freedom?
Mike
--- Nate Riffe <inkblot@geocities.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Michael Cannon wrote:
>
> > Again, you're the boss...but don't you think we
> should
> > strike while the iron is hot?
>
> Because Adobe is a very small corner of a very large
> iron. There are many
> DMCA supports, and now that Adobe has backed away
> from Sklyarov, that is
> all Adobe is... a DMCA supporter.
>
> >
> > Considering the attention-span of the average
> > 'sheeple' in the American public, we won't GET a
> > better chance...additionally, the talk is moving
> to
> > 'amending' and away from REPEALING the
> DMCA...finally,
>
> I think we should stick to repealing, because when
> it comes time to
> bargain with the pro-DMCA side, we'd better be in a
> position to make
> concessions.
>
> >
> > -EULA - contracts that are illegal in any other
> > context
> > -UCITA - protections provided to no other industry
> > segment (and certain provisions re-inforce the
> DMCA
> > and further criminalize Fair Use)
> > -DMCA - THE monster - not only civil penalties,
> but
> > criminal ones...we go to jail, deprived of our
> freedom
>
> And the civil ones... we go to the soup kitchen,
> deprived of our
> socioeconomic power.
>
> >
> > You don't see these folks as evil.
>
> Yes, I do see them as evil. I also see you as hasty
> and
> irrational. Until we are properly prepared to move
> forward, I think we
> should stick with our existing strategy, which so
> far has been to
> publicize what has happened with OUR spin, rather
> than the corporate spin.
>
> > I do. They are
> > going to try to get away with anything they can.
> They
> > are spreading this poison to other countries, via
> WIPO
> > and corporate influences.
>
> We'll add WIPO to the Survivor game, then.
>
> > Just because something is a
> > treaty, doesn't mean we have to ratify it (START,
> ABM,
> > the BioWar Protocols, Kyoto).
> >
> > The government and the Korps are laughing at us,
> or
> > can't you hear them? the EFF is using this to
> recruit
> > members. Adobe is using us, too. Look at their
> stock
> > price. There IS no such thing as bad publicity.
> >
> > You are an organizer - THE organizer, IIRC - and I
> am
> > simply and civilly disagreeing. Without escaltion
> and
> > noise, we will be ignored and this crap wil
> continue
> > to spread.
>
> Please read the Art of War, if you have not already.
> And if you have,
> please read it again.
>
> We need preparation more than anything else right
> now. We need:
>
> - An authoritative source stating the original
> purpose of the DMCA (for
> comparison to it actual effect)
> - An authoritative source stating the original
> intent of Article I,
> Section 8, paragraph 8 of the Constitution ("To
> promote the progress of
> science and useful arts, by securing for limited
> times to authors and
> inventors the exclusive right to their respective
> writings and
> discoveries")
> - An authoritative source stating contemporary
> jurisprudence surrounding
> Const. I,8,8.
> - A comprehensive list of ludicrous statements made
> in support of the DMCA
> - A comprehensive list of ludicrous statements we
> should avoid making
> against the DMCA
> - A refutation of every pro-DMCA argument that has
> been made
> - Solid research backing every anti-DMCA point that
> we make
> - An exhaustive list of the incidents in which the
> pro-DMCA camp has
> abused the DMCA (executed powers under the DMCA in a
> manner harmful to the
> common good)
> - A comparison of rights under pre-DMCA copyright
> law and current law
> - Form letters ready to send to Congress WRT
> reconsidering the DMCA
> - A list of internationally recognized rights which
> have been violated
> over the course of Sklyarov's visit to the United
> States
> - A list of traditional rememedies for violation of
> those rights
> - Several solidly researched arguments in favor of
> Sklyarov's release
> - Examples of abuse of power by Mueller
> - Several solidly researched arguments against
> Mueller's nomination
> - Form letters ready to send to Congress WRT
> Mueller's nomination hearings
>
> If possible someone should draft a bill that would
> repeal or neuter the
> DMCA and send it out for peer review over the next
> several weeks, and then
> to Congressman Rick Boucher for submission to the
> Congressional dockett.
>
> >
> > Adobe, the MPAA, the BSA...all of them are the
> > problems. We are the only solution. We have the
> > attention of the media and the masses. It's time
> to
> > act!
>
> Knee-jerk. Too soon. We must attack when we are
> strongest. It is better
> to fight a defensive battle than a offensive battle,
> for it leads your
> opponent out of his fortifications.
>
> Translation, we need to observse the response to our
> protests and then
> thoroughly refute it on Monday. If there is no
> observable response from
> our opposition, we should simply replay the first
> protest while we dig in
> for the third.
>
> Go read Sun Tsu now!
>
> >
> > I will be patient and follow
> orders/dirctives...but
> > you need to think about where we take this, Peter,
> and
> > how far you are willing to go. THAT is the
> > responsibility of a leader.
>
> See above.
>
> >
> > BTW, I destroyed ALL Adobe SW on my corporate and
> > personal computers at my business and here at home
> (I
> > own the business and the computers and software -
> I am
> > not advocating damage to others' property!). My
> > offices are now declared 'Adobe Free' areas. No
> > Acrobat or .pdf files are allowed.
>
> We should be sure to publicize this at the right
> moment, and not in haste.
>
> > HTML only. I am
> > also divesting. My accountant estimates this will
> > cost me in excess of $15000 in lost business and
> > additional work next month. The divestiture's
> damage
> > will be a bit more.
> >
> > For those that are interested, the link to all the
> > Adobe companies is:
> >
>
=== message truncated ===
From inkblot@geocities.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:45:22 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 22:45:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nate Riffe inkblot@geocities.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Michael Cannon wrote:
> Even though Adobe instigated this specifically to deny
> this man his freedom?
To my knowledge, Adobe was one of many companies that lobbied for the DMCA
in 1997 and 1998. (fast forward) Adobe filed a complaint about the
Advanced eBook Processor under the DMCA some weeks ago, if not months (I
am not familiar with the timeframe of these events). I do not doubt that
this complaint named specific individuals, including Dmitry Sklyarov. So
far Adobe is performing a standard corporate knee-jerk maneuver.
Some stuff happened, maybe Adobe had a hand in it, maybe not(*). Dmitry
Sklyarov came to the United States with an outstanding complaint against
him and was arrested. The EFF talked Adobe into revering their position
on the arrest, but Adobe wouldn't budge on the DMCA. Standard corporate
capitulation ("Oh, I guess we were wrong... Sorry Dmitry!").
Now, Adobe's got a big bruise, and we certainly all think Adobe's name is
Mudd, but what really happened here (*)? Are there nasty thing going on
here (*) that implicate the FBI and introduce a technicality in Dmitry's
defense?
Also, a successful call for a boycott will certainly make Adobe hurt, but
how are our goals advanced by hurting Adobe?
-Nate
>
> Mike
> --- Nate Riffe <inkblot@geocities.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Michael Cannon wrote:
> >
> > > Again, you're the boss...but don't you think we
> > should
> > > strike while the iron is hot?
> >
> > Because Adobe is a very small corner of a very large
> > iron. There are many
> > DMCA supports, and now that Adobe has backed away
> > from Sklyarov, that is
> > all Adobe is... a DMCA supporter.
> >
> > >
> > > Considering the attention-span of the average
> > > 'sheeple' in the American public, we won't GET a
> > > better chance...additionally, the talk is moving
> > to
> > > 'amending' and away from REPEALING the
> > DMCA...finally,
> >
> > I think we should stick to repealing, because when
> > it comes time to
> > bargain with the pro-DMCA side, we'd better be in a
> > position to make
> > concessions.
> >
> > >
> > > -EULA - contracts that are illegal in any other
> > > context
> > > -UCITA - protections provided to no other industry
> > > segment (and certain provisions re-inforce the
> > DMCA
> > > and further criminalize Fair Use)
> > > -DMCA - THE monster - not only civil penalties,
> > but
> > > criminal ones...we go to jail, deprived of our
> > freedom
> >
> > And the civil ones... we go to the soup kitchen,
> > deprived of our
> > socioeconomic power.
> >
> > >
> > > You don't see these folks as evil.
> >
> > Yes, I do see them as evil. I also see you as hasty
> > and
> > irrational. Until we are properly prepared to move
> > forward, I think we
> > should stick with our existing strategy, which so
> > far has been to
> > publicize what has happened with OUR spin, rather
> > than the corporate spin.
> >
> > > I do. They are
> > > going to try to get away with anything they can.
> > They
> > > are spreading this poison to other countries, via
> > WIPO
> > > and corporate influences.
> >
> > We'll add WIPO to the Survivor game, then.
> >
> > > Just because something is a
> > > treaty, doesn't mean we have to ratify it (START,
> > ABM,
> > > the BioWar Protocols, Kyoto).
> > >
> > > The government and the Korps are laughing at us,
> > or
> > > can't you hear them? the EFF is using this to
> > recruit
> > > members. Adobe is using us, too. Look at their
> > stock
> > > price. There IS no such thing as bad publicity.
> > >
> > > You are an organizer - THE organizer, IIRC - and I
> > am
> > > simply and civilly disagreeing. Without escaltion
> > and
> > > noise, we will be ignored and this crap wil
> > continue
> > > to spread.
> >
> > Please read the Art of War, if you have not already.
> > And if you have,
> > please read it again.
> >
> > We need preparation more than anything else right
> > now. We need:
> >
> > - An authoritative source stating the original
> > purpose of the DMCA (for
> > comparison to it actual effect)
> > - An authoritative source stating the original
> > intent of Article I,
> > Section 8, paragraph 8 of the Constitution ("To
> > promote the progress of
> > science and useful arts, by securing for limited
> > times to authors and
> > inventors the exclusive right to their respective
> > writings and
> > discoveries")
> > - An authoritative source stating contemporary
> > jurisprudence surrounding
> > Const. I,8,8.
> > - A comprehensive list of ludicrous statements made
> > in support of the DMCA
> > - A comprehensive list of ludicrous statements we
> > should avoid making
> > against the DMCA
> > - A refutation of every pro-DMCA argument that has
> > been made
> > - Solid research backing every anti-DMCA point that
> > we make
> > - An exhaustive list of the incidents in which the
> > pro-DMCA camp has
> > abused the DMCA (executed powers under the DMCA in a
> > manner harmful to the
> > common good)
> > - A comparison of rights under pre-DMCA copyright
> > law and current law
> > - Form letters ready to send to Congress WRT
> > reconsidering the DMCA
> > - A list of internationally recognized rights which
> > have been violated
> > over the course of Sklyarov's visit to the United
> > States
> > - A list of traditional rememedies for violation of
> > those rights
> > - Several solidly researched arguments in favor of
> > Sklyarov's release
> > - Examples of abuse of power by Mueller
> > - Several solidly researched arguments against
> > Mueller's nomination
> > - Form letters ready to send to Congress WRT
> > Mueller's nomination hearings
> >
> > If possible someone should draft a bill that would
> > repeal or neuter the
> > DMCA and send it out for peer review over the next
> > several weeks, and then
> > to Congressman Rick Boucher for submission to the
> > Congressional dockett.
> >
> > >
> > > Adobe, the MPAA, the BSA...all of them are the
> > > problems. We are the only solution. We have the
> > > attention of the media and the masses. It's time
> > to
> > > act!
> >
> > Knee-jerk. Too soon. We must attack when we are
> > strongest. It is better
> > to fight a defensive battle than a offensive battle,
> > for it leads your
> > opponent out of his fortifications.
> >
> > Translation, we need to observse the response to our
> > protests and then
> > thoroughly refute it on Monday. If there is no
> > observable response from
> > our opposition, we should simply replay the first
> > protest while we dig in
> > for the third.
> >
> > Go read Sun Tsu now!
> >
> > >
> > > I will be patient and follow
> > orders/dirctives...but
> > > you need to think about where we take this, Peter,
> > and
> > > how far you are willing to go. THAT is the
> > > responsibility of a leader.
> >
> > See above.
> >
> > >
> > > BTW, I destroyed ALL Adobe SW on my corporate and
> > > personal computers at my business and here at home
> > (I
> > > own the business and the computers and software -
> > I am
> > > not advocating damage to others' property!). My
> > > offices are now declared 'Adobe Free' areas. No
> > > Acrobat or .pdf files are allowed.
> >
> > We should be sure to publicize this at the right
> > moment, and not in haste.
> >
> > > HTML only. I am
> > > also divesting. My accountant estimates this will
> > > cost me in excess of $15000 in lost business and
> > > additional work next month. The divestiture's
> > damage
> > > will be a bit more.
> > >
> > > For those that are interested, the link to all the
> > > Adobe companies is:
> > >
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.freesklyarov.org/ -- FREE DMITRY!
> sklyarov-chicago@ufo.chicago.il.us
> http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago
>
------------------------------------------------((\))<----------------------
Nate Riffe Help Dmitry Sklyarov find freedom in the so-
inkblot@geocities.com called "Land of the Free."
http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html
From legalalien@runbox.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:46:22 -0500
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:46:22 -0500
From: Igor Matlin legalalien@runbox.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
> Also, a successful call for a boycott will certainly make Adobe hurt, but
> how are our goals advanced by hurting Adobe?
>
> -Nate
IMHO, if a successful boycott will make other companies think twice before
attempting to prosecute people on anticircumvension charges, it's worth
trying.
-Ig.
From inkblot@geocities.com Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:44:21 -0500 (CDT)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:44:21 -0500 (CDT)
From: Nate Riffe inkblot@geocities.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Igor Matlin wrote:
> > Also, a successful call for a boycott will certainly make Adobe hurt, but
> > how are our goals advanced by hurting Adobe?
> >
> > -Nate
>
> IMHO, if a successful boycott will make other companies think twice before
> attempting to prosecute people on anticircumvension charges, it's worth
> trying.
An excellent point. However, we should be sure to have our facts straight
and have them well documented. Adobe's involvement is a lot more tangled
than Sklyarov's and it would be quite damaging for us to approach it
prematurely.
-Nate
>
> -Ig.
>
------------------------------------------------((\))<----------------------
Nate Riffe Help Dmitry Sklyarov find freedom in the so-
inkblot@geocities.com called "Land of the Free."
http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html
From korbomite@yahoo.com Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 23:40:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
So go to the ebookplanet site at
http://www.planetebook.com/mainpage.asp?webpageid=170
and follow the links.
It's called research. I did it and then began to get
involved. I continue. I also know how to use Google
to look up the things I'm not clear on. You should
too.
We're being suckered and manipulated by the
bureaucrats and Washington Insiders at EFF. We've
done more in 3 days than they have in 3 years! EFF
has collected money in Dmitry's name for his 'defense'
and HE HAS A PUBLIC DEFENDER. The EFF has not
released a word. We should be treating this man the
way we treated the POWs of the Gulf War...he is just
as much a human shield...and is in just as much danger
of being forgotten...or can YOU name the MIA Navy
pilot that was forgotten in Iraq?
Mike
--- Nate Riffe <inkblot@geocities.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 25 Jul 2001, Igor Matlin wrote:
>
> > > Also, a successful call for a boycott will
> certainly make Adobe hurt, but
> > > how are our goals advanced by hurting Adobe?
> > >
> > > -Nate
> >
> > IMHO, if a successful boycott will make other
> companies think twice before
> > attempting to prosecute people on
> anticircumvension charges, it's worth
> > trying.
>
> An excellent point. However, we should be sure to
> have our facts straight
> and have them well documented. Adobe's involvement
> is a lot more tangled
> than Sklyarov's and it would be quite damaging for
> us to approach it
> prematurely.
>
> -Nate
>
> >
> > -Ig.
> >
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------((\))<----------------------
> Nate Riffe Help Dmitry Sklyarov find freedom in
> the so-
> inkblot@geocities.com called "Land of the Free."
>
>
http://www.eff.org/alerts/20010719_eff_sklyarov_alert.html
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.freesklyarov.org/ -- FREE DMITRY!
> sklyarov-chicago@ufo.chicago.il.us
>
http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago
From pedro@tastytronic.net Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:13:44 -0500
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:13:44 -0500
From: Peter A. Peterson II pedro@tastytronic.net
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Quoting Michael Cannon:
> EFF has collected money in Dmitry's name for his 'defense' and HE HAS
> A PUBLIC DEFENDER.
Is there a URL to somewhere that they have collected money 'in his
name'? I'm curious. They've definitely taken the opportunity to ask
people to donate -- but have they asked for money in his name and for
his defense? I imagine that at times like this, they have a lot more
expenditures than when "nothing is happening".
> The EFF has not released a word.
What do you mean? I believe they released a statement regarding their
talks with Adobe, as well as a statement about future talks with the
DoJ. Additionally, I've been in contact with Will Doherty and Stanton
McCandlish *every day* since we started this process.
In both cases, they have respectfully pulled out of protest
organizations at the bequest of the parties they are attempting to
negotiate with. I think that's called "good faith".
What would you have them do?
pedro
From korbomite@yahoo.com Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:31:46 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 00:31:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Cannon korbomite@yahoo.com
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
It's called 'associative linking' in the PR world...
Here is a link that CLEARLY implies that this is going
to 'help Dmitry'
http://www.onethumb.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/21/1532231
If not, why hasn't the EFF made a statement as to what
the money goes to....they have OTHER Legal Defense
funds...a person wanting to help will naturally donate
to the EFF in this cause, expecting that would be the
FIRST thing the EFF would do, and that dollars to them
would be more effective, because the EFF is seen as a
more 'effective' organization, with more money and
influence. We're being spun.
CRAP!!! Dmitrys the DEFINITION of a 'Stranger in a
Strange Land.' I'd be terrified if I were in his
shoes. Nine DAYS!!!
Mike
--- "Peter A. Peterson II" <pedro@tastytronic.net>
wrote:
> Quoting Michael Cannon:
> > EFF has collected money in Dmitry's name for his
> 'defense' and HE HAS
> > A PUBLIC DEFENDER.
>
> Is there a URL to somewhere that they have collected
> money 'in his
> name'? I'm curious. They've definitely taken the
> opportunity to ask
> people to donate -- but have they asked for money in
> his name and for
> his defense? I imagine that at times like this, they
> have a lot more
> expenditures than when "nothing is happening".
>
> > The EFF has not released a word.
>
> What do you mean? I believe they released a
> statement regarding their
> talks with Adobe, as well as a statement about
> future talks with the
> DoJ. Additionally, I've been in contact with Will
> Doherty and Stanton
> McCandlish *every day* since we started this
> process.
>
> In both cases, they have respectfully pulled out of
> protest
> organizations at the bequest of the parties they are
> attempting to
> negotiate with. I think that's called "good faith".
>
> What would you have them do?
>
> pedro
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.freesklyarov.org/ -- FREE DMITRY!
> sklyarov-chicago@ufo.chicago.il.us
>
http://ufo.chicago.il.us/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sklyarov-chicago
From pedro@tastytronic.net Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:55:00 -0500
Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 02:55:00 -0500
From: Peter A. Peterson II pedro@tastytronic.net
Subject: [sklyarov-chicago] from Adobe
Quoting Michael Cannon:
> It's called 'associative linking' in the PR world...
>
> Here is a link that CLEARLY implies that this is going
> to 'help Dmitry'
>
> http://www.onethumb.com/article.pl?sid=01/07/21/1532231
My understanding is that the PayPal account is for Dmitry expenses
directly, and that ultimately, he makes the decision who his legal
counsel is. I imagine that money generically donated to the EFF goes
into some kind of general fund. I'm sure the board of directors knows
what that is. But if I'm a non-profit org and I ask you to donate money
to me becuase I'm working on a cause X, and you can either donate to me,
or to a special account for cause X, it seems like they've done all they
can do.
I'm not saying this becuase I think that the EFF is some kind of all
powerful entity -- but they are certainly capable of connections and
actions that I, and/or the 50 of us on the list, are not.
pedro