This is community?
By Anonymous
November 16 2007
Yes,
let us sit behind the safe anonymity of our keyboards and make fun of
someone
who actually did what you're supposed to do, go in and *try to change
things
for the better*. I thought that was the whole idea of this site? If the
motto
is really "leave it to the professionals", I don't expect to see
much
commenting here in the future.
What a travesty.
07:06 PM EST
This is community?
By PJ
November 16 2007
First, this individual
isn't part of Groklaw's
community. He has attacked Groklaw nonstop for
years,
and he tried to help SCO locate me. He
also helped them with their antiGroklaw
website,
and he has one of his own, where he mirrors my
articles in ways he
knows I find offensive.
So I was quite mild in the article, not because
of community feeling, but because I don't believe
in repaying evil for evil.
But it's not about
community.
As for getting in there and doing something,
it is
my view that it doesn't help and it risks doing real
harm. Every time
he has ended up in a courtroom,
he's lost.
But my point is generic, and
it's one I've written
about over and over. This is not the first time. I
write the same thing whether it's a friend or an
enemy: don't go into courtrooms
without a lawyer
to represent you. You will lose even if you should
win, most
of the time. I wrote the same thing when
Dan Wallace did his pro se thing.
If someone wants to be the hero that saves Linux,
at least put on the
right armor, grab a good steed,
and ride to win. And if you don't know what you
are
doing, please don't do the community any favors by
going in unprepared.
Further, the US Trustee represents the community, as
that is his assignment.
So he doesn't need community
members getting in the way.
There are ways
to be helpful, and there are ways that
feel good at the time but end up causing
problems that
didn't have to happen.
09:15 PM EST
Source: http://www.groklaw.net/comment.php?mode=display&sid=20071115155803532&title=This%20is%20community%3F&type=article&order=&hideanonymous=0&pid=646525#c646558
This is community?
By PJ
November 16 2007
Since I'm told
you bragged about this comment
elsewhere, I'll say this: you aren't part of
the Groklaw community either. What
a phony comment, therefore.
You are
only here to find fault. That is your sole
purpose for whatever reason...
that's yours to
grapple with. I don't care. But I don't want you
to post
here any more. You are not welcome.
To meaningfully answer one point
though first before
you and I say buh bye: he didn't do what the rest of
us should do. I think it's a tactical mistake to do
what he did. We have
members who are shareholders,
and one of them asked me about doing this. I
think
it's best to stay out of it.
Why?
Because in my analysis,
our best shot is *not* to do
what he did. I don't believe it helped at all. I
think
it annoyed. And the more he shows up, the worse it will
get. That is
my prediction.
I predicted he'd lose the Merkey case too, by the way,
if you recall, and he did, and for the very reason I
cited.
I didn't
just fall off a turnip truck, you know. And
my record speaks for itself. What
he's doing is, in
my opinion, harmful, not helpful. You guys think
it's
great, because of the hacker ethic or whatever,
but courts don't run on
hacker concepts.
I can't tell others what to do. But I can freely
express my opinion on my own website. Or is that
not allowed amongst you free
speech lovers any more?
I can only express myself if I say what you like?
Some free speech.
09:40 PM EST
This is community?
By Anonymous
November 17 2007
Okay.
So what you're saying here is that the Legal system. You know? The system
you
deeply believe in and have repeated time and time again to respect, that it
will come through and that is working. That system you've been working so hard
to explain to "us" for so long. That for some reason now, it could all
come
crashing down in flames because one person could annoy the judge and he
could
suddenly, on a whim, by himself, decide to disregard the rules of law, the
evidence and everything else, and somehow hand SCO a victory, all based on his
dislike of something Al could do in court?
We've seen the system spit on,
trampled and almost laughed at by BS&F for
over 4 years, and a Judge is going
to hand them a victory because Al may make
him annoyed???
I believe
you're obvious personal dislike of Al, no matter if warranted or not,
is
clouding your judgment. That, or the legal system isn't worth the paper it's
rulings are printed on.
08:16 AM EST
This is community?
By DeepBlue
November 17 2007
Well
said, and I must say I find the proposition that members of other
communities
can't be part of Groklaw deeply hurtful.
---
All that matters is
whether they can show ownership, they haven't and they
can't, or whether they
can show substantial similarity, they haven't and they
can't.
09:17 AM
EST
This is community?
By PJ
November 17 2007
They can be
part of Groklaw. But if they spend three
years pretty much nonstop attacking
Groklaw, I'd
say I can notice that they are not friendly folks
and define
themselves as not part of Groklaw.
10:09 AM EST
This is community?
By PJ
November 17 2007
And I believe
you are being childish. At best.
Or maybe just phony.
The court system
is what it is. You want it to be
like you. It's not. You want Groklaw to be
like you too.
It's not. I deal in reality. I suggest you start
to do so
also.
This case matters a lot more than some dream
world thinking. If
there is a chance of doing
harm, and if you are really a Linux person,
why
would you take that chance? No. Really.
Why would you? And not only that, but
insist
on your right to mess everything up rather than
adjust to be
effective?
I suspect you folks are not really Linux
folks. That's why
you do things that are
harmful to Linux.
You guys carp and criticize
over the
most stupid things literally for years and
years and years. Why?
Either you are paid
to do it, since no normal person cares *that
much*
about moderation or how somebody's
web site is run. Or you are a bunch of
cracked coconuts.
I believe it's because you are not actually Linux
folks.
You frame it as if it were a free speech issue,
because you know
some in the community will
fall for that line. But it's not about the things
you pretend it is. And you aren't fooling anybody.
Certainly not me.
You know why corporations get people to out
folks they find inconvenient
and put their addresses
on the Internet? It's cover. Then they can
intimidate or worse and there is no direct line
back to them. It's just some
net kook, they can
say. I'm not the first person to experience it, and I
probably won't be the
last. But spare me your justifications. This isn't some
personal dislike
going on. It's much worse, in my view. And no one
is so
stupid they don't know this.
10:23 AM EST
This is community?
By Anonymous
November 17 2007
But if they spend three years
pretty much nonstop attacking Groklaw
As per the above, you have
also been attacking "them," and it that also has been going on for every bit as
long. There's a good deal of symmetry here. As to who threw the first stone, we
might argue, but by my reckoning, you don't come out all that clean on that
score.
The difference being that, over "there," "they" don't just attack
- they discuss, try to understand, and about as many defend GL as criticise it."
Over here, there is a good deal less balance. And virtually no
introspection.
But, it's okay PJ. Most of us realize that you really are
perfect.
11:36 AM EST
This is community?
By PJ
November 17 2007
No. Maybe
once a year I make a statement, when I wish
onlookers to realize you and I
are not a communnity.
I make a statement when events call for it, but I
do
it here.
I never go there and leave comments. And I'd
like you to go
away and stay away from Groklaw.
And I don't write about you day in and
day out
for years and years and years. It's ridiculous.
You speak
about hacker ethic. Maliciousness has
nothing to do with the hacker ethic,
and you don't
represent the hacker ethic to me. Linus does. RMS does.
Do
you see them attacking Groklaw, picking away at
every perceived flaw? No. Why
not? Because they
realize that Groklaw has a role and it is fulfilling
it.
People who are really in the Linux community
protect and support Groklaw.
That's just true. If you
were really Linux folks, you would too.
I
*hope* someone is paying you to pick, pick, pick.
Because otherwise, your
lives are really sad. It's
obvious I don't intend to do things your way. You
know it and I know it. We've both known it since
2004. So why continue? So
why obsess? If you are
not being paid to attack Groklaw, why do it so
faithfully for years and years and years? It's really pitiful.
02:46 PM
EST
This is community?
By DeepBlue
November 19 2007
Who is
they? I post here and I post on IV. Are all posters on IV not welcome
here? I
know there are some people who have taken action you don't agree with
and
that's fine but you seem to be going over the top here.
---
All that
matters is whether they can show ownership, they haven't and they
can't, or
whether they can show substantial similarity, they haven't and they
can't.
02:02 PM EST
This is community?
By PJ
November 19 2007
You just
answered your own question, did you not, by
posting here successfully?
What I wrote was written to an individual who has
publicly stated he does
not wish to participate
in Groklaw. You are bending it to try to make
a
federal case out of something that has nothing
to do with you.
02:11
PM EST
Copyright 2007 http://www.groklaw.net/