From: st...@criddle.demon.co.uk (Steve Criddle) Subject: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/25 Message-ID: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 404916647 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NNTP-Posting-Host: criddle.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.32 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: ab...@demon.net X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 909335745 nnrp-04:4498 NO-IDENT criddle.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.32 Organization: Hawkinge Aerodrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego I've heard that it's possible to program Mindstorms using Not Quite C. Alta Vista can't seem to find it though. Can somebody tell me the URL please? Anybody care to comment on what it's like to use? Crid <*> -- Steve Criddle - Hawkinge, Kent, England http://www.criddle.demon.co.uk/
From: Nick <nta...@iname.com> Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/25 Message-ID: <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 404939333 X-NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.63.114.134 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> To: Steve Criddle <st...@criddle.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Get NQC here: http://www.enteract.com/~dbaum/lego/nqc/index.html NQC is a creation of Dave Baum ... and is currently the BEST MindStorms programming environment available. - - - Nick - - - Steve Criddle wrote: > I've heard that it's possible to program Mindstorms using Not Quite C. > Alta Vista can't seem to find it though. Can somebody tell me the URL > please? > > Anybody care to comment on what it's like to use? > > Crid <*> > -- > Steve Criddle - Hawkinge, Kent, England > http://www.criddle.demon.co.uk/
From: db...@nospam.com (Dave Baum) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/25 Message-ID: <dbaum-2510981343320001@azathoth-10.d.enteract.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 404939334 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: EnterAct L.L.C. Turbo-Elite News Server Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego In article <36335bfc...@news.demon.co.uk>, st...@criddle.demon.co.uk (Steve Criddle) wrote: >I've heard that it's possible to program Mindstorms using Not Quite C. >Alta Vista can't seem to find it though. Can somebody tell me the URL >please? http://www.enteract.com/~dbaum/lego/nqc/index.html >Anybody care to comment on what it's like to use? I like it a lot, but then again I'm a bit biased since I wrote it. I do get a lot of positive feedback on it. In general, it is a fairly easy and quick way to program the RCX if you're already familiar with C syntax. There are tons of limitations - most of which stem from the RCX firmware itself, but even so you can do some interesting stuff with it. Dave -- reply to: dbaum at enteract dot com
From: "Cyberia" <cyberi...@spamx.erols.com> Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/25 Message-ID: <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 404964024 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 X-Complaints-To: ab...@rcn.com X-Trace: nh5/uVPHI5NlPWz24bES3M+fICOuZA6PSdoaQdw15jA= Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego I wholeheartedly agree. Without doubt this environment is light years ahead of the standard product's interface. Thanks Dave.... I can't wait to see some re-engineered firmware that will allow argument passing to subs, variable math on the fly, etc... SeeYa ! -- Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- From The Keyboard of Cyberia (the machine's name, not mine) Ethereal home of the clan Moran Nick wrote in message <36337006...@iname.com>... >Get NQC here: >http://www.enteract.com/~dbaum/lego/nqc/index.html > >NQC is a creation of Dave Baum ... and is currently >the BEST MindStorms programming environment >available. > > - - - Nick - - - > >Steve Criddle wrote: > >> I've heard that it's possible to program Mindstorms using Not Quite C. >> Alta Vista can't seem to find it though. Can somebody tell me the URL >> please? >> >> Anybody care to comment on what it's like to use? >> >> Crid <*> >> -- >> Steve Criddle - Hawkinge, Kent, England >> http://www.criddle.demon.co.uk/ > > >
From: Christoph Terhechte <ct@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/25 Message-ID: <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 404990037 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> Organization: Flausen frei Haus User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980514 (UNIX) (Linux/2.0.34 (i586)) Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Cyberia <cyberi...@spamx.erols.com> wrote: > I wholeheartedly agree. Without doubt this environment is light > years ahead of the standard product's interface. Thanks Dave.... Just compiled my first NQC program, and it works. So I do join in. > I can't wait to see some re-engineered firmware that will allow > argument passing to subs, variable math on the fly, etc... BTW, are all of the restrictions of NQC really firmware-related. Why can't I use variables in the PlayNote statement? It would be great to change the frequency of a tone according to the intensity of light that the light sensor sees. The only workaround I see seem to be a huge number of IF-clauses. -- Christoph Terhechte <c...@terhech.snafu.de> "Toto? - I have a feeling we're not in Kansas anymore."
From: ke...@pixel.Stanford.EDU (Kekoa Proudfoot) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/26 Message-ID: <712e6i$964$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 405269047 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> Organization: Stanford University Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Christoph Terhechte <ct@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> wrote: >BTW, are all of the restrictions of NQC really firmware-related. Why >can't I use variables in the PlayNote statement? It would be great to >change the frequency of a tone according to the intensity of light >that the light sensor sees. The only workaround I see seem to be a >huge number of IF-clauses. Most of the restrictions of NQC are firmware related. Dave Baum did a great job - NQC is pretty flexible and does a good job of making the firmware's entire byte code available to you. There is no way to do the tone thing with the current set of opcodes, which is unfortunate, because that would be a cool way to get feedback on the intensity of the light. An opcode list is at http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/opcodes.html. If you look there, at http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/, and at the things linked from the second page's See Also section - especially Russell Nelson's site at http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics/ - you will get some idea of the capabilities of the RCX, both with and without the current firmware. Work is being done to reverse engineer the firmware and the ROM in the RCX, which will allow the following to be done soon: - firmware extensions (although technically not allowed) - completely new byte code interpreters - native programs that run without an interpreter More info is available at http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics/ and http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/#Rom. -Kekoa
From: st...@criddle.demon.co.uk (Steve Criddle) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/27 Message-ID: <36364cd9.1654070@news.demon.co.uk>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 405445605 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NNTP-Posting-Host: criddle.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.32 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> <712e6i$964$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: ab...@demon.net X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 909463183 nnrp-09:29092 NO-IDENT criddle.demon.co.uk:158.152.120.32 Organization: Hawkinge Aerodrome MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego I believe it was Kekoa Proudfoot who once wrote: ~ Most of the restrictions of NQC are firmware related. Dave Baum did a ~ great job - NQC is pretty flexible and does a good job of making the ~ firmware's entire byte code available to you. There is no way to do the ~ tone thing with the current set of opcodes, which is unfortunate, because ~ that would be a cool way to get feedback on the intensity of the light. I was thinking about the restrictions at work today. It's pretty annoying that you can't call a subroutine from another subroutine. I assume this was done so that you can't get into a stack overflow situation. Thinking about the restrictions further, I came to the conclusion that it was probably done because there is no adequate way for the RCX to give error messages. The current RCX code (as opposed to NQC) doesn't seem to have any situations where the RCX can have errors that need reporting. (The only one I can think of in NQC is a numeric overflow). Replacement firmware could put an error code on the RCX display. OK, so it would only be a numeric error code, but a replacement programming language is not likely to be aimed at beginners anyway. If the programmer is competent enough to tackle the programming language, I'm sure they'll be capable of looking up error codes. ~ An opcode list is at http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/opcodes.html. ~ If you look there, at http://graphics.stanford.edu/~kekoa/rcx/, and at the ~ things linked from the second page's See Also section - especially Russell ~ Nelson's site at http://www.crynwr.com/lego-robotics/ - you will get some ~ idea of the capabilities of the RCX, both with and without the current ~ firmware. I shall go and check these out. More out of curiosity than anything else. Crid <*> ...looking forward to replacement firmware. -- Steve Criddle - Hawkinge, Kent, England http://www.criddle.demon.co.uk/
From: mat...@mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/10/27 Message-ID: <slrn73bv6f.o9a.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 405614574 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> <712e6i$964$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> <36364cd9.1654070@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: Boston University Reply-To: mat...@mattdm.org Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Steve Criddle <st...@criddle.demon.co.uk> wrote: >I was thinking about the restrictions at work today. It's pretty >annoying that you can't call a subroutine from another subroutine. I >assume this was done so that you can't get into a stack overflow >situation. No, it's done because there is no stack. -- Matthew Miller ---> mat...@mattdm.org Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
From: chuckc...@mindspring.com (Chuck Cottrill) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/11/06 Message-ID: <36429f08.40305088@news.mindspring.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 408933338 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> <712e6i$964$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> <36364cd9.1654070@news.demon.co.uk> <slrn73bv6f.o9a.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu> X-Server-Date: 6 Nov 1998 06:04:44 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Reply-To: chuckc...@mindspring.com Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego mat...@mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) wrote: >Steve Criddle <st...@criddle.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>I was thinking about the restrictions at work today. It's pretty >>annoying that you can't call a subroutine from another subroutine. I >>assume this was done so that you can't get into a stack overflow >>situation. > >No, it's done because there is no stack. No stack?! I think I'm going to be sick. Are we talking about the mindstorms firmware or some extension/replacement? If the basic mindstorms RCX isn't implemented with a stack, that is pathetic. A replacement firmware w/o a stack isn't much use either. the limited I/O of the RCX (3-in, 3-out) has kept me disinterested, but my local Target has 20% off and has Mindstorms in stock -- I've considered it but the limits of the RCX have discouraged me...
From: mat...@mattdm.org (Matthew Miller) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/11/06 Message-ID: <slrn745th1.t2g.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 409016016 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <36337006.72A1FD01@iname.com> <7100rv$rpo$1@autumn.news.rcn.net> <710661$jo3$1@terhech.flausen.frei.haus> <712e6i$964$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU> <36364cd9.1654070@news.demon.co.uk> <slrn73bv6f.o9a.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu> <36429f08.40305088@news.mindspring.com> Organization: Boston University Reply-To: mat...@mattdm.org Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Chuck Cottrill <chuckc...@mindspring.com> wrote: >Are we talking about the mindstorms firmware or some extension/replacement? >If the basic mindstorms RCX isn't implemented with a stack, that is pathetic. >A replacement firmware w/o a stack isn't much use either. Just the current firmware. The replacement will be fully capable. -- Matthew Miller ---> mat...@mattdm.org Quotes 'R' Us ---> http://quotes-r-us.org/
From: ke...@pixel.Stanford.EDU (Kekoa Proudfoot) Subject: Re: Mindstorms/Not Quite C Date: 1998/11/06 Message-ID: <7200as$eqe$1@nntp.Stanford.EDU>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 409194328 References: <36335bfc.15790220@news.demon.co.uk> <slrn73bv6f.o9a.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu> <36429f08.40305088@news.mindspring.com> <slrn745th1.t2g.mattdm@jadzia.bu.edu> Organization: Stanford University Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego Matthew Miller <mat...@mattdm.org> wrote: >Chuck Cottrill <chuckc...@mindspring.com> wrote: >>Are we talking about the mindstorms firmware or some extension/replacement? >>If the basic mindstorms RCX isn't implemented with a stack, that is pathetic. >>A replacement firmware w/o a stack isn't much use either. > >Just the current firmware. The replacement will be fully capable. Oh yes, it will be capable... So capable, Chuck, that it will bring new meaning to the word Mindstorm. -Kekoa