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From: cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu (Craig Metz)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: APC UPS owners or potential buyers, trying to show user base
Date: 27 Jul 1994 15:12:44 -0400
Organization: The Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology
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	I had a talk today with Debbie Gray (sp?) of American Power Conversion
regarding trying to get information on how to communicate with their Smart
UPS products' onboard controllers in order to write a Linux driver. APC is
one of the *many* manufacturers that plays the old NDA game, i.e., ``we
consider that to be proprietary information that we have to protect''. However,
she seemed to at least not be a brick wall to the idea of trying to change
this policy so that a freely redistributable in source form Linux driver could
be done. She told me that she will be talking to her supervisor when he's
back from Interop next week about this. 

	In cases like this, money talks. If it can be shown that opening up
to the Linux community (and the *BSD community, as well) would net them a
significant number of sales, they would be far more likely to decide to open
up than if it's just me. 

	So, I ask, could people who (or whose employer):

	* Own an APC Smart UPS used with a machine that is or will be a 
		Linux or *BSD system

	(or)

	* Are planning to purchase a smart UPS for use with a Linux or
		*BSD system 

	Please get in touch with me, letting me know what size (sizes, or
size range) UPS and how many units are involved. I will be using this 
information to show that the Linux and *BSD markets are significant enough
that it is worth their while to reconsider their policies. 

	Also, if anyone has had experiences with other manufaturers of
smart UPS units trying to get programming/driver information from them,
please let me know. If APC doesn't change their line, I want to know who
*does* do things in the open -- that'll be who gets my business.

								-Craig
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Subject: foo
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From: mpdi...@coho.halcyon.com (Michael Dillon)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC UPS owners or potential buyers, trying to show user base
Date: 28 Jul 1994 06:44:53 GMT
Organization: NWNEXUS, Inc. - Making Internet Easy
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In article <316bjc$h...@thor.tjhsst.edu>,
Craig Metz <cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu> wrote:
>	I had a talk today with Debbie Gray (sp?) of American Power Conversion
>regarding trying to get information on how to communicate with their Smart
>UPS products' onboard controllers in order to write a Linux driver. APC is
>one of the *many* manufacturers that plays the old NDA game, i.e., ``we
>consider that to be proprietary information that we have to protect''. H

Really now! Those boxes use an RS-232 interface, right? What do they tell 
the computer? If they only communicate one thing (power fail) then it
is probably something as simple as shorting the RD and SD lines. Get a
technician to check it out for you while you pull the plug.

If they are giving more info than that, then it probably can be 
reverse engineered with simple program to monitor the incoming 
serial port.

I remember a UPS that we set up about 7 years ago. I provided two terminals
on the box that it shorted together when the power failed. We hooked
them up to pins 2 and 3 on a serial port and made a little shell script
daemon that periodically checked for powerfail every five minutes. When 
it got two hits in a row, it shutdown the system.



>she seemed to at least not be a brick wall to the idea of trying to change
>this policy so that a freely redistributable in source form Linux driver could
>be done. She told me that she will be talking to her supervisor when he's
>back from Interop next week about this. 
>
>	In cases like this, money talks. If it can be shown that opening up
>to the Linux community (and the *BSD community, as well) would net them a
>significant number of sales, they would be far more likely to decide to open
>up than if it's just me. 
>
>	So, I ask, could people who (or whose employer):
>
>	* Own an APC Smart UPS used with a machine that is or will be a 
>		Linux or *BSD system
>
>	(or)
>
>	* Are planning to purchase a smart UPS for use with a Linux or
>		*BSD system 
>
>	Please get in touch with me, letting me know what size (sizes, or
>size range) UPS and how many units are involved. I will be using this 
>information to show that the Linux and *BSD markets are significant enough
>that it is worth their while to reconsider their policies. 
>
>	Also, if anyone has had experiences with other manufaturers of
>smart UPS units trying to get programming/driver information from them,
>please let me know. If APC doesn't change their line, I want to know who
>*does* do things in the open -- that'll be who gets my business.
>
>								-Craig
>Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development,comp.unix.bsd
>Subject: foo
>Summary: 
>Followup-To: 
>Distribution: 
>Organization: The Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology
>Keywords: 
>Cc: 
>


--
Michael Dillon                 Internet: mpdi...@halcyon.halcyon.com
C-4 Powerhouse                  Fidonet: 1:353/350
RR #2 Armstrong, BC  V0E 1B0      Voice: +1-604-546-8022
Canada                              BBS: +1-604-546-2705

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From: john...@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.development,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC UPS owners or potential buyers, trying to show user base
Date: 29 Jul 1994 03:38:53 GMT
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In-reply-to: mpdillon@coho.halcyon.com's message of 28 Jul 1994 06:44:53 GMT
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In article <317k55$k...@news.halcyon.com> mpdi...@coho.halcyon.com 
(Michael Dillon) writes:

   In article <316bjc$h...@thor.tjhsst.edu>,
   Craig Metz <cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu> wrote:
   >	I had a talk today with Debbie Gray (sp?) of American Power Conversion
   >regarding trying to get information on how to communicate with their Smart
   >UPS products' onboard controllers in order to write a Linux driver. APC is
   >one of the *many* manufacturers that plays the old NDA game, i.e., ``we
   >consider that to be proprietary information that we have to protect''. H

   Really now! Those boxes use an RS-232 interface, right? What do they tell 
   the computer? If they only communicate one thing (power fail) then it
   is probably something as simple as shorting the RD and SD lines. Get a
   technician to check it out for you while you pull the plug.

The "Back-UPS" do this.

   If they are giving more info than that, then it probably can be 
   reverse engineered with simple program to monitor the incoming 
   serial port.

The "Smart-UPS" are smarter.  I'll be getting one, and I'll try to
reverse-engineer it.  Heck, the person at APC that I talked to said it
would be fine if I wrote a program to do monitoring under Linux and
distributed it freely.  She didn't say anything about an NDA.  Of
course, I didn't ask for the details, either.  I will after I buy it,
and make a royal stink if they don't give them to me.  If I have to,
I'll get their unixware software, set up unixware (there's a spare
copy at work I could borrow, it's not installed anywhere because it
doesn't like the disk I offered it...) and monitor it.  strace is
available on unixware, too... :-)

Actually, I have iBCS2 installed, so I may be able to use that to
trace their cute software.  I don't want to trust their software to
shut down *my* machine, though; I'd write my own even if I used
unixware.  We'll see what happens.

   I remember a UPS that we set up about 7 years ago. I provided two terminals
   on the box that it shorted together when the power failed. We hooked
   them up to pins 2 and 3 on a serial port and made a little shell script
   daemon that periodically checked for powerfail every five minutes. When 
   it got two hits in a row, it shutdown the system.

That will work for their "Back-UPS", assuming you get the right
combination of pins.  I think that it is possible to talk back to the
"Smart-UPS".

I'd buy from a more open vendor, but APC is the *only* vendor with a
decent LI product with 900kva in my price range.  The next one is 1.5
times the cost, more than I can afford.

michaelkjohnson