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From: cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu (Craig Metz)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 15 Aug 1994 11:22:11 -0400
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After getting the run-around several times from APC, I finally
got a response from Vince, who is apparently Debbie Gray's boss. Basically,
although he admitted freely that their serial protocol is simple enough
that it could be figured out and other manufacturers fully document their
means of automated shutdown and other communication to the host processor,
APC will not tell anyone how their Smart UPSs communicate. He offered a
token program that would make the Smart UPS a glorified Back UPS from a
shutdown and monitoring perspective, but would not take advantage of
any of the features of the unit other than telling your system to shut
down when the power's gone.
I strongly suggest that people interested in an UPS for Linux
put significant bias against APC in their purchasing considerations. I am
going to be buying from Best Power, who not only fully documents their
products, but also provides the source code to their monitoring and
shutdown software standard with their UNIX driver package. The people at
Best Power were also easy-going, answered my phone calls and questions
promptly and with concrete answers, and were just plain a lot easier to
deal with then the APC people. The Best FerrUPS line is regarded by a
lot of people that I have talked to as the best UPSs available on the
market, though they are somewhat more expensive than the rest.
If anyone wants to talk to APC themselves and express their
dissapointment with their decision, the number is 1-800-800-4APC.
From my point of view, however, I just couldn't justify the
expense of the FerrUPS (in my price range, almost twice as much, not
to mention double the weight). At least one person who responded to
my original post indicated that he was going to just work on figuring
the protocol out, and I plan to do the same. Would any current owners
of APC Smart UPS units be interested in forming a group effort to do
this?
-Craig
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From: nel...@crynwr.crynwr.com (Russell Nelson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 16 Aug 1994 02:17:12 GMT
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In-reply-to: cmetz@thor.tjhsst.edu's message of 15 Aug 1994 11:22:11 -0400
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In article <32o173$i...@thor.tjhsst.edu> cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu (Craig Metz)
writes:
After getting the run-around several times from APC, I finally
got a response from Vince, who is apparently Debbie Gray's boss. Basically,
although he admitted freely that their serial protocol is simple enough
that it could be figured out and other manufacturers fully document their
means of automated shutdown and other communication to the host processor,
APC will not tell anyone how their Smart UPSs communicate.
Vince believes APC has more to gain from proprietary communications,
than from an open system. This is an 80's attitude. Wake up Vince,
we're half-way through the 90's!
At least one person who responded to my original post indicated
that he was going to just work on figuring the protocol out, and I
plan to do the same. Would any current owners of APC Smart UPS
units be interested in forming a group effort to do this?
Don't bother, you're just rewarding the above mistaken impression.
I guess I'm going to have to recycle the APC info package I got in the
mail today. Too bad, because I *am* going to buy a UPS, and I *was*
going to buy an APC.
--
-russ <nel...@crynwr.com> http://www.crynwr.com/crynwr/nelson.html
Crynwr Software | Crynwr Software sells packet driver support | ask4 PGP key
11 Grant St. | +1 315 268 1925 (9201 FAX) | What is thee doing about it?
Potsdam, NY 13676 | LPF member - ask me about the harm software patents do.
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From: john...@calypso-2.oit.unc.edu (Michael K. Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 17 Aug 1994 00:38:21 GMT
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In-reply-to: nelson@crynwr.crynwr.com's message of 16 Aug 1994
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I've ordered a Best Fortress LI950 after sending back my APC Smart-UPS
900. Best is quite happy to have its specs available, without an NDA.
I've also heard that their quality is much higher. They are a little
more expensive, but I found a supplier who seels them at a reasonable
price: ProSource Power. They were quite pleasant when I sent back my
APC unit, and their price on both the APC and Best units was the best
I was quoted.
My Best unit hasn't come in yet (they didn't have it in stock) but so
far I've been pleased with them.
One nice thing about Best: APC made me buy a new surge supressor to
cover me under their warantee. Best is letting me keep my laser
printer and modem on my old Panamax surge supressor (one of the better
brands) and they will still cover the waranty. (This may or may not
have anything to do with the fact that Best oem's Panamax themselves
for their own surge supressors...)
No affiliation with any of the companies mentioned here...
michaelkjohnson
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From: mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu (Marc A. Runkel)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
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Date: 18 Aug 1994 18:36:48 GMT
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: Vince believes APC has more to gain from proprietary communications,
: than from an open system. This is an 80's attitude. Wake up Vince,
: we're half-way through the 90's!
Actually, we seem to have come full circle. Back in the CP/M days, no
specs meant no sale. :-)
If anyone from APC is reading this, you will be glad to know that I too
will no longer be suggesting that the UMass buy APC UPS's. Which is too
bad, as I think they are good products.
--
Marc A. Runkel marc....@registrar.umass.edu
Network Analyst Of course, this is just my
Registrar's Office * Systems Support Group tiny, insignificant, humble
University of Massachusetts, Amherst opinion. If you don't like it....
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From: te...@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 19 Aug 1994 04:31:37 GMT
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In article <3309o0$r...@nic.umass.edu> mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu
(Marc A. Runkel) writes:
] If anyone from APC is reading this, you will be glad to know that I too
] will no longer be suggesting that the UMass buy APC UPS's. Which is too
] bad, as I think they are good products.
Is there an email address for APC?
I have the same reservations regarding Diamond and Adaptec products,
and would hate to add to my list without giving them a chance.
Terry Lambert
te...@cs.weber.edu
---
Any opinions in this posting are my own and not those of my present
or previous employers.
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From: john...@nigel.vnet.net (Michael K. Johnson)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 19 Aug 1994 16:40:13 GMT
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In-reply-to: terry@cs.weber.edu's message of 19 Aug 1994 04:31:37 GMT
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In article <331cj9$r...@u.cc.utah.edu> te...@cs.weber.edu (Terry Lambert)
writes:
In article <3309o0$r...@nic.umass.edu> mru...@twain.ucs.umass.edu
(Marc A. Runkel) writes:
] If anyone from APC is reading this, you will be glad to know that I too
] will no longer be suggesting that the UMass buy APC UPS's. Which is too
] bad, as I think they are good products.
Is there an email address for APC?
I have the same reservations regarding Diamond and Adaptec products,
and would hate to add to my list without giving them a chance.
Are you kidding? If they were on the net, they might have a clue... :-/
Their 800-number is 800-800-4APC -- ask for Debbie Gray. Tell her
Michael Johnson sent you. I'm sure she will remember me; we had a
long conversation about this. She's not convinced that requiring
NDA's is a bad thing. The more people that call her and tell her
that they will no longer buy or recommend APC, the more seriously
APC will take this.
BTW: if you call, don't rant and rave -- you'll just put them off
of us as a lunatic fringe. Debbie is a nice person, and is willing
to listen to what you say. Rational arguments will make an
impression. She is not responsible for company policy, but what she
hears will be heard by those that do make this policy, and she may
forward you to talk to others, as well.
They are on compu$erve; they have a forum. However, I don't have
any user id for them, so can't tell you how to contact them that
way without a compu$erve account...
I did it the easy way; I bought a Best unit. It is scheduled (UPS
willing) to come in on Wednesday. I can't wait, especially as there
is a thunderstorm outside ;-)
michaelkjohnson
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From: jmo...@netcom.com (Jesus Monroy Jr)
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Message-ID: <jmonroyCuwv3J.HpB@netcom.com>
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Date: Mon, 22 Aug 1994 00:38:06 GMT
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Craig Metz (cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu) wrote:
:
: :: [deleted stuff] ::
:
: I strongly suggest that people interested in an UPS for Linux
: put significant bias against APC in their purchasing considerations. I am
: going to be buying from Best Power, who not only fully documents their
: :: [deleted stuff] ::
:
Might I recommend to Mr. Metz (and any others)
that this type of critisium is uncalled for.
True a company may want to be less that freindly
about the way in which the deal with the marketing/sales
policy of their products, but this is no reason
to even suggest a "bias" of any sort.
My suggestion is to say. The won't cooperate
and leave it at that. The world is full of plenty
of suppliers, manufactures, etc. to start such
petty non-sense.
--
Jesus Monroy Jr jmo...@netcom.com
Zebra Research
/386BSD/device-drivers /fd /qic /clock /documentation
___________________________________________________________________________
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From: j...@violet.berkeley.edu (Jordan K. Hubbard)
Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.misc,comp.unix.bsd
Subject: Re: APC refuses to give out info without NDA
Date: 23 Aug 1994 10:54:30 GMT
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In article <jmonroyC...@netcom.com>,
Jesus Monroy Jr <jmo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>Craig Metz (cm...@thor.tjhsst.edu) wrote:
>:
>: :: [deleted stuff] ::
>:
>: I strongly suggest that people interested in an UPS for Linux
>: put significant bias against APC in their purchasing considerations. I am
>: going to be buying from Best Power, who not only fully documents their
>: :: [deleted stuff] ::
>:
> Might I recommend to Mr. Metz (and any others)
> that this type of critisium is uncalled for.
Not at all, Jesus - this is called "voting with your wallet" and is
a perfectly legimate way of letting a company know that some group
of people dislikes its policies. If this group of people is large,
it may induce the company to change its ways. If it's not, then the
company doesn't really CARE about the boycott either way and it's
a moot point. I'm not usually one to jump on the bandwagon for every
boycott that comes along ("What do you mean I shouldn't buy grapes, fish,
meat, coffee, rice, wallpaper, chilean condoms, motor oil, ...??"), but
on the other hand, I'm all for making companies wake up and realize that
"Open Computing" is more than just a buzzphrase. It certainly makes my
life a lot easier when they do!
Jordan