From: Alexander Dalloz <alexander dalloz uni-bielefeld de> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:48:40 +0100 Today I found this online article: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html I must confess, that I am more than a little bit irritated. Is that a hoax? From my point of view, Fedora is a very good desktop linux, but maybe Redhat just takes it as an unserious playground. For several years since now I am an enthusiastic Redhat user - both on desktop and on servers as well - and think it is a good strategy to divide enterprise products from home user product. This does not mean, that Linux is far from be good for desktops systems in the enterprise area nor on home users, private PCs. If these statements in the article are really by Matthew Szulik, he should overthink whether his is right at position as CEO. I never heard an officer telling customers to better buy the product from the competitor. Regards Alexander -- Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany PGP key valid: made 13.07.1999 PGP fingerprint: 2307 88FD 2D41 038E 7416 14CD E197 6E88 ED69 5653 Attachment: signature.asc Description: Dies ist ein digital signierter Nachrichtenteil
From: "Justin L Croonenberghs" <danruiid geekstuff info> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 23:05:27 -0600 (CST) Why not? He's being honest. Can you honestly imagine your grandma picking up a computer and then finding out she needs to edit her /etc/inittab? :-) Linux is still too much of a "geek" operating system. You're not thinking like a consumer; they want the thing to work, work now, work without their intervention, and they *simply don't care* how it functions. Much like cars, really. And Windows XP really isn't bad; it's a good, modern OS (though architectually needs work), that's fast and reliable, and compared to the abomination that was Windows Me, it's a Godsend. Remember, your average consumer knows absolutely nothing of the computing world; that's how AOL made all its money. Cheers! -- Justin L Croonenberghs http://www.geekstuff.info/ "You're not a freak, you're just stupid!" Alexander Dalloz said: > Today I found this online article: > > http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > > I must confess, that I am more than a little bit irritated. Is that a > hoax? > > From my point of view, Fedora is a very good desktop linux, but maybe > Redhat just takes it as an unserious playground. > > For several years since now I am an enthusiastic Redhat user - both on > desktop and on servers as well - and think it is a good strategy to > divide enterprise products from home user product. This does not mean, > that Linux is far from be good for desktops systems in the enterprise > area nor on home users, private PCs. > > If these statements in the article are really by Matthew Szulik, he > should overthink whether his is right at position as CEO. I never heard > an officer telling customers to better buy the product from the > competitor. > > Regards > > Alexander > > > -- > Alexander Dalloz | Enger, Germany > PGP key valid: made 13.07.1999 > PGP fingerprint: 2307 88FD 2D41 038E 7416 14CD E197 6E88 ED69 5653
From: Eric Harrison < eharrison mail mesd k12 or us> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:36:30 -0800 (PST) On Wed, 5 Nov 2003, Alexander Dalloz wrote: >Today I found this online article: > >http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1104_2-5101690.html > >I must confess, that I am more than a little bit irritated. Is that a >hoax? > >From my point of view, Fedora is a very good desktop linux, but maybe >Redhat just takes it as an unserious playground. The article irritated me as well, the way it was written I assume it was intended to be irritating. Here's another article written from a different perspective: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,4149,1372650,00.asp >For several years since now I am an enthusiastic Redhat user - both on >desktop and on servers as well - and think it is a good strategy to >divide enterprise products from home user product. This does not mean, >that Linux is far from be good for desktops systems in the enterprise >area nor on home users, private PCs. You and I are not the typical home desktop market... There is a huge difference between the home desktop market and the enterprise desktop market. The enterprise desktop has a narrower scope and better support than the home market. I put Linux desktops in schools, Linux does extrememly well there. With a narrow scope and better support, Linux rocks. But when my mother bought a new computer, I did not offer to install Linux on it. I look forward to the day that I can do so. >If these statements in the article are really by Matthew Szulik, he >should overthink whether his is right at position as CEO. I never heard >an officer telling customers to better buy the product from the >competitor. I've seen IBM spec Sun servers for specific projects, as one of many examples. Even the huge companies like IBM have to acknowledge where they are competitive and where they are not. Picking a fight were you can't compete is not smart business. -Eric
From: Steve Withers <swithers mmp org nz> To: Fedora List <fedora-list redhat com> Subject: "Granny - Just edit your Registry!" Re: hoax or bad taste joke byRedhat's CEO? Date: 05 Nov 2003 21:34:51 +1300 On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 18:05, Justin L Croonenberghs wrote: > Why not? He's being honest. Can you honestly imagine your grandma picking > up a computer and then finding out she needs to edit her /etc/inittab? > > :-) If she wants Internet browsing and e-mail, there would be no need for her to do that. Would you tell yer Grandma all she needs to do is run 'regedit' and make some changes to her registry keys? Or how do you explain she needs to patch new XP system to keep the worm viruses away....but she can't connect to the Internet to download the patch becasue she will be infected? This is just two situations that are more of a pain than most things I do on Linux. There are many more. -- Steve Withers < swithers mmp org nz>
From: Vince Scimeca <vscimeca jupitermedia com> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: Re: "Granny - Just edit your Registry!" Re: hoax or bad taste jokeby Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 08:04:07 -0500 On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 16:34, Steve Withers wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 18:05, Justin L Croonenberghs wrote: > > Why not? He's being honest. Can you honestly imagine your grandma picking > > up a computer and then finding out she needs to edit her /etc/inittab? > > > > :-) > > If she wants Internet browsing and e-mail, there would be no need for > her to do that. > > Would you tell yer Grandma all she needs to do is run 'regedit' and make > some changes to her registry keys? > > Or how do you explain she needs to patch new XP system to keep the worm > viruses away....but she can't connect to the Internet to download the > patch becasue she will be infected? > > This is just two situations that are more of a pain than most things I > do on Linux. > > There are many more. I agree. I have been a RH user for some time now. My wife, who would probably be considered to have average PC knowledge has always been a M$ user. After getting tired of rebuilding her W2K laptop for who knows how many times for many various reasons I instead rebuilt her laptop to RH. I checked with her to see what apps she needed (browser, email, doc editor, spreadsheet) and thought this would be a good thing to do. Hell, if she didn't like it I could always bring her back to M$. It has been several months now that she has been running RH and I have not had to touch the machine to address any issues since I handed it over to her...and she uses it on a daily basis. She has no reason to know anything about opening a terminal for what she needs to do. I am not saying that this is an ideal situation for the masses, but I also don't think Linux should be looked at as something you need to be a computer geek to understand. Luckily in our situation if my wife had an issue with it she has a computer geek who can take care of it ;-) -- Vince Scimeca - Senior Technology Manager Jupitermedia Corp. vscimeca jupitermedia com
From: Niels Weber <nath snafu de> To: "fedora (rhl) Liste" <fedora-list redhat com> Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 09:15:17 +0100 Am Mi, den 05.11.2003 schrieb Eric Harrison um 06:36: > But when my mother bought a new computer, I did not offer to install > Linux on it. I look forward to the day that I can do so. I would and I did it with other people with no computing experiences - the results weren't bad. The people having the most problems with Linux are those with Windows experiences, not those without computing experiences. BTW: You did notoffer to install Linux, did you install Windows for her? What is if anything breaks on her Windows machine? Are you the one to reinstall and fix everything? I now refuse to give that kind of "support" to people using Windows. That's a marketing concept of Microsoft, people giving that free support to their users. -- Niels Weber <nath snafu de>
From: Steve Withers <swithers mmp org nz> To: Fedora List <fedora-list redhat com> Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: 05 Nov 2003 21:38:21 +1300 On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 21:15, Niels Weber wrote: > BTW: You did notoffer to install Linux, did you install Windows for her? > What is if anything breaks on her Windows machine? Are you the one to > reinstall and fix everything? I now refuse to give that kind of > "support" to people using Windows. That's a marketing concept of > Microsoft, people giving that free support to their users. Same here....the best help i can give most Internet/word-processing Windows users is to get rid of Windows. -- Steve Withers < swithers mmp org nz>
From: "Razvan Corneliu C.R. \"d3vi1\" VILT" <razvan vilt linux360 ro> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 17:34:52 +0200 On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 10:38, Steve Withers wrote: > On Wed, 2003-11-05 at 21:15, Niels Weber wrote: > > > BTW: You did notoffer to install Linux, did you install Windows for her? > > What is if anything breaks on her Windows machine? Are you the one to > > reinstall and fix everything? I now refuse to give that kind of > > "support" to people using Windows. That's a marketing concept of > > Microsoft, people giving that free support to their users. > > Same here....the best help i can give most Internet/word-processing > Windows users is to get rid of Windows. The best help I can give to windows users is update-it on a daily basis, update the virus definitions, update Spybot S&D and use Mozilla instead if MSIE. Windows itself is not a problem... when did you see Microsoft releasing a hot-fix for ntoskrnl.exe? The problems usually lie in MSIE, DCOM & RPC. On the server side also on Exchange. Been a redhat user since 4.2, never wanted anything else & just love Fedora, but, although I can convince my mother to use OO.o instead of MSOffice, my brother who uses XChat or bitchX instead of mIRC is still unhappy with the game support (if any) in WineX for certain popular PC-Games. He is unhappy with the sharing of files on our small network with our neighbors, he just hates editing smb.conf (yes I have enough trust him to do this) and restarting samba, he just hates the lack of ACL editing tools in GNOME for his XFS partition, just like he does it in Windows NT 4,5,5.1 at his friend's place, he just hates the ACL support in SAMBA, and he wants an encryption-enabled file-system. There are tons of details that GNU/Linux does not have yet... He thinks that we should have a sort of daemon which GNOME/KDE can connect to and configure SAMBA/APACHE or others by simply right-clicking on the file/folder. He just wants SAMBA/APACHE to advertise to the daemon what is configurable by what users at them and GNOME to take the options from there and build a dynamic file-properties dialog. It's not a bad idea... but only if you look at the concept, plus the fact that changes should be made at service level & desktop environment level, and of course write the daemon to do that, which is quite improbable... Microsoft HAS such tools... We don't have them, we have to edit smb.conf & httpd.conf, we have to use chacl, chmod & chown. This is not bad in a server environment, but on a desktop it's way to much for the average user... Apple, although I don't like using their tools to configure Apache & CUPS, with MacOS X was a break-through for the desktop UNIX-like user because it showed that it can be done, the question is can it be done for Linux/*BSD/others??? Feel sorry for this, but GNU/Linux is not ready for the desktop market, at least for the average user.
From: "Black" <black_771 hotmail com> To: < fedora-list redhat com> Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:43:05 -0600 > Feel sorry for this, but GNU/Linux is not ready for the > desktop market, at least for the average user. I've been saying this for a while too, but as both a RedHat stockholder and administrator, I don't like to see this one bit. Once installed, the "basics" of computer use are there and VERY easy to use. For a true computer newbie, such as our elementary age kids, there is nothing to "unlearn". A perfect canvas to build the future of desktop Linux. I think RedHat missed on this one and apparently I'm not alone. To see this news on the same day as the SuSe\Novell announcement sent the stock down sharply. Is anyone listening?
From: "Cannon, Andrew" < Andrew Cannon nnc co uk> To: "'fedora-list redhat com'" < fedora-list redhat com> Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 16:47:36 -0000 See my previous post, but they didn't say that linux was not ready for the desktop market, just the consumer market. They will still be supporting educational use. Andy -----Original Message----- From: Black [mailto:black_771 hotmail com] Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:43 PM To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? > Feel sorry for this, but GNU/Linux is not ready for the > desktop market, at least for the average user. I've been saying this for a while too, but as both a RedHat stockholder and administrator, I don't like to see this one bit. Once installed, the "basics" of computer use are there and VERY easy to use. For a true computer newbie, such as our elementary age kids, there is nothing to "unlearn". A perfect canvas to build the future of desktop Linux. I think RedHat missed on this one and apparently I'm not alone. To see this news on the same day as the SuSe\Novell announcement sent the stock down sharply. Is anyone listening? -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list redhat com http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list NNC's UK Operating Companies : NNC Holdings Limited (no. 3725076), NNC Limited (no. 1120437), National Nuclear Corporation Limited (no. 2290928), STATS-NNC Limited (no. 4339062) and Technica-NNC Limited (no. 235856). The registered office of each company is at Booths Hall, Chelford Road, Knutsford, Cheshire WA16 8QZ except for Technica-NNC Limited whose registered office is at 6 Union Row, Aberdeen AB10 1DQ. NNC's head office and principal address is Booths Hall and the switchboard number is 01565 633800. The NNC website is www.nnc.co.uk This email and any files transmitted with it have been sent to you by the relevant UK operating company and are confidential and intended for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the NNC system manager by e-mail at eadm nnc co uk
From: "Black" < black_771 hotmail com> To: < fedora-list redhat com> Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 11:05:26 -0600 I think we have the same point, but have different expectations of the "average" user. Computer shops here in the States charges $20 to install memory, $50 to install a hard drive and the "average" computer user, in my experience, chooses to actually pay that! If you can't do it yourself, pay someone who can. Average users are "internet", "word processor", and "checkbook" appliance users. Linux is more than ready for them. I truly think that when he said "Linux" needs to mature a few years, he really meant waiting for their niche user, the user that is willing to try something different, to mature. > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-list-admin redhat com > [mailto:fedora-list-admin redhat com] On Behalf Of Cannon, Andrew > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 10:48 AM > To: 'fedora-list redhat com' > Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? > > > See my previous post, but they didn't say that linux was not > ready for the desktop market, just the consumer market. > > They will still be supporting educational use. > > Andy > > -----Original Message----- > From: Black [mailto:black_771 hotmail com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 4:43 PM > To: fedora-list redhat com > Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? > > > > Feel sorry for this, but GNU/Linux is not ready for the > > desktop market, at least for the average user. > > I've been saying this for a while too, but as both a RedHat > stockholder and administrator, I don't like to see this one > bit. Once installed, the "basics" of computer use are there > and VERY easy to use. For a true computer newbie, such as > our elementary age kids, there is nothing to "unlearn". A > perfect canvas to build the future of desktop Linux. I think > RedHat missed on this one and apparently I'm not alone. To > see this news on the same day as the SuSe\Novell announcement > sent the stock down sharply. Is anyone listening? > > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list redhat com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-> list > > > NNC's UK > Operating Companies : NNC Holdings Limited > (no. 3725076), NNC Limited (no. 1120437), National Nuclear > Corporation Limited (no. 2290928), STATS-NNC Limited (no. > 4339062) and Technica-NNC Limited (no. 235856). The > registered office of each company is at Booths Hall, Chelford > Road, Knutsford, Cheshire WA16 8QZ except for Technica-NNC > Limited whose registered office is at 6 Union Row, Aberdeen > AB10 1DQ. NNC's head office and principal address is Booths > Hall and the switchboard number is 01565 633800. The NNC > website is www.nnc.co.uk > > This email and any files transmitted with it have been sent > to you by the relevant UK operating company and are > confidential and intended for the use of the individual or > entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this > e-mail in error please notify the NNC system manager by > e-mail at eadm nnc co uk > > > -- > fedora-list mailing list > fedora-list redhat com > http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-> list >
From: "LoBue, Mark" <mark lobue cshs org> To: "'fedora-list redhat com'" <fedora-list redhat com> Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 10:03:05 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: Black [mailto:black_771 hotmail com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2003 9:05 AM > To: fedora-list redhat com > Subject: RE: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? > > > I think we have the same point, but have different expectations of the > "average" user. Computer shops here in the States charges > $20 to install > memory, $50 to install a hard drive and the "average" > computer user, in my > experience, chooses to actually pay that! If you can't do it > yourself, pay > someone who can. Average users are "internet", "word processor", and > "checkbook" appliance users. Linux is more than ready for them. I would like to disagree that linux is ready for 2 of these 3 examples, and I look forward to being educated where I am wrong. "internet". The PC my kids use would be Linux except for 2 things, zoogdisney.com and cartoonnetwork.com. Both of these require some sort of Macromedia product that I just can't get working in any browser I've tried (I'm using RH 9, by the way). "checkbook". Is there any software that will directly connect to my bank's website and download transactions the way Quicken does? How about the American Express and Discover sites? Quicken does that. -Mark
From: Garrett LeSage <garrett redhat com> To: fedora-list redhat com Subject: Re: hoax or bad taste joke by Redhat's CEO? Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:52:22 -0500 LoBue, Mark wrote: > I look forward to being educated where I am wrong. > "internet". The PC my kids use would be Linux except for 2 things, > zoogdisney.com and cartoonnetwork.com. Both of these require some sort of > Macromedia product that I just can't get working in any browser I've tried > (I'm using RH 9, by the way). Flash player for Linux (native port), packaged (this is what you need to view the websites): http://sluglug.ucsc.edu/macromedia/site_ucsc.html Someone even reviewed the Flash development software on Linux too: http://www.ubergeek.tv/article.php?id=27 > "checkbook". Is there any software that will directly connect to my bank's > website and download transactions the way Quicken does? How about the > American Express and Discover sites? Quicken does that. Two checkbook solutions: http://www.gnucash.org/ From GnuCash's website: "Intuit^® Quicken^® QIF files can be imported, and are automatically merged to eliminate duplicate transactions." http://www.moneydance.com/ (requires Java) From Moneydance's website: "With Moneydance you can automatically synchronize your records with transactions downloaded from your bank." So GnuCash doesn't directly support it, but if your bank allows you to download a QIF file, then it should work. Moneydance, however, seems to work with banks just fine. GnuCash is free. Moneydance costs money (but so does Quicken). Garrett