Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
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From: dennis@ROCK (Dennis Ambrose)
Subject: A/UX & Centris 610
Message-ID: <1993Mar7.222148.18295@ultb.isc.rit.edu>
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Date: Sun, 7 Mar 1993 22:21:48 GMT
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Will A/UX run on the Centris 610? I have heard some
talk that people have had trouble with it. Will A/UX
suffer because there is no co-processor?
Thanks,
D E N N I S A M B R O S E
den...@rock.csh.rit.edu Sex is not the answer.
dwa...@mecury.cs.rit.edu Sex is the question,
dwa...@vaxa.isc.rit.edu YES is the answer!
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
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From: gpb@gpb-mac (greg berryman )
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610
Message-ID: <1993Mar8.220424.8702@newsgate.sps.mot.com>
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dennis@ROCK (Dennis Ambrose) writes:
:
:
: Will A/UX run on the Centris 610? I have heard some
: talk that people have had trouble with it. Will A/UX
: suffer because there is no co-processor?
:
: Thanks,
:
: D E N N I S A M B R O S E
: den...@rock.csh.rit.edu Sex is not the answer.
: dwa...@mecury.cs.rit.edu Sex is the question,
: dwa...@vaxa.isc.rit.edu YES is the answer!
NO. Never. No FPU means no A/UX.
And, by-the-way, not on the 650 yet. There has been talk of a update that
will run on the vx's and Centris 650. So far, it is just talk.
Greg.
--
My words, not Motorola's. * ______ * EQUAL rights NOT special rights
g...@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com * \ BI / * I will NOT ride in the back of the bus.
Greg Berryman (512)928-6014 * \ / * SILENCE = DEATH
Motorola Austin, Texas, USA * \/ * First, be true to yourself.
GLB mailing list ---> glb...@gpb-mac.sps.mot.com (Motorola only)
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From: cool...@sirius.aux.apple.com (John L. Coolidge)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610
Message-ID: <1993Mar9.221747.28435@times.aux.apple.com>
Date: 9 Mar 93 22:17:47 GMT
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gpb@gpb-mac (greg berryman ) writes:
>dennis@ROCK (Dennis Ambrose) writes:
>: Will A/UX run on the Centris 610? I have heard some
>: talk that people have had trouble with it. Will A/UX
>: suffer because there is no co-processor?
>NO. Never. No FPU means no A/UX.
>And, by-the-way, not on the 650 yet. There has been talk of a update that
>will run on the vx's and Centris 650. So far, it is just talk.
Not to speculate on whether A/UX will run on the C610 (I'm not allowed
to comment on that :-)), but it's quite possible to give a C610 a math
coprocessor. The 68LC040 can be replaced with a full 68040; you simply
pull the original CPU and insert the new one. No heat sink is
required. I don't know how much this costs, though.
--John
May the forces of evil become confused on the way to your house.
-- George Carlin
+++John L. Coolidge++++++++...@apple.com+++++++++++++++++++++++
I speak for myself, not for Apple Computer. Copyright 1993 John L. Coolidge.
Copying allowed only if attributed, and if all copies may be further copied.
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From: j...@genome.wi.mit.edu (Steve Lincoln)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Date: 10 Mar 1993 23:08:35 GMT
Organization: Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research, MIT
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<1993Mar9.221747.28435@times.aux.apple.com>
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John L. Coolidge (cool...@apple.com) writes:
> Not to speculate on whether A/UX will run on the C610 (I'm not allowed
> to comment on that :-)), but it's quite possible to give a C610 a math
^^^
Jeez, you act as if you're proud of this.
I'm-pissed-off-because-I'm-screwed-by-Apple-again-so-what-else-is-new-mode on:
I take it then that Apple Computer feels it's OK to keep their A/UX
users guessing and rumor-mongering about WHEN, and it seems IF, we're
going to see a update to A/UX, a product that was once claimed to be
"strategic". Stategic to Apple in its competitive wars perhaps, but
God forbid it should be strategic for any of its USERS (that is,
PAYING CUSTOMERS) or, even better, allegedly coveted third party
developers.
Seriously, I'm sure that all A/UX users would like to upgrade to the
newest fastest neatest harware. I would, but that's not so important.
The real problem I have is that nobody can buy an A/UX box now (OK,
except for the pricey Q950). The IIsi, IIci and Q700 aren't widely
available (not that the first two are such great options), and none of
the boxes with adequate performance (800, 610, 650) run the beast. Not
that anybody would be happy buying an overpriced and underpowered old
model even if they could find one on the grey market or used...
We have many users who want to run our software, but can't get a box
from Apple, and can't wait, particularly because they don't know how
long the wait will be. I've told them all to buy 486's. This doesn't
help our new programmer with no computer, however...
The upcomming announcement at CeBIT isn't good enough (see the last
MacWeek, front page). We should have been told at least what the deal
was when the 600's etc. were released and when the A/UX capable
machines were clearly going to be history soon.
OBVIOUSLY, Apple will at least have the meager remaining decency to
post the release here, ASSUMING it ever happens, of course....
No-longer-pissed-off-but-I'm-sure-it-will-happen-again-mode on:
- Steve "porting to A/UX was either a bad idea or a waste of time" Lincoln
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goofy!mumbo.apple.com!times!mkellner
From: mkel...@aux.apple.com (Michael Kellner)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Message-ID: <1993Mar12.014240.4807@times.aux.apple.com>
Date: 12 Mar 93 01:42:40 GMT
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j...@genome.wi.mit.edu (Steve Lincoln) writes:
: John L. Coolidge (cool...@apple.com) writes:
:
: > Not to speculate on whether A/UX will run on the C610 (I'm not allowed
: > to comment on that :-)), but it's quite possible to give a C610 a math
: ^^^
:
: Jeez, you act as if you're proud of this.
I think that you should interpret this as a shame-faced smile. Peon employees
like myself or John aren't allowed to make decisions on whether or not we can
discuss the cool new stuff we're working on. It's in my employment contract.
: We have many users who want to run our software, but can't get a box
: from Apple, and can't wait, particularly because they don't know how
: long the wait will be. I've told them all to buy 486's. This doesn't
: help our new programmer with no computer, however...
: OBVIOUSLY, Apple will at least have the meager remaining decency to
: post the release here, ASSUMING it ever happens, of course....
Okay, you've got me steamed up about this too. I feel that the ball has
been dropped in marketing A/UX since we're all working our butts off on
the PowerOpen system. So I talked to upper management and was given an
okay to post _something_ to the net.
I'll tell you what I know about what's up.
Don't take this as an official announcement. I'm sure that there will be
one soon though...
A/UX 3.x.x is under development. Bug fixes, a more stable Finder environment,
increased speed, Centris (with FPU's) and Quadra 800 support, 7.1, and faster
disk I/O (much).
Don't ask me for any more information. Speculate as you please.
mk.
(Guess it's time for me to look for a new job, eh?)
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From: cool...@Apple.COM (John L. Coolidge)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Message-ID: <79899@apple.apple.COM>
Date: 12 Mar 93 19:03:18 GMT
References: <1nlsdj$88m@harpo.wi.mit.edu>
<1993Mar12.014240.4807@times.aux.apple.com>
Reply-To: cool...@apple.com
Organization: Open Systems Development, Porting&I/O Group, Apple Computer, Inc.
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mkel...@aux.apple.com (Michael Kellner) writes:
>j...@genome.wi.mit.edu (Steve Lincoln) writes:
>: John L. Coolidge (cool...@apple.com) writes:
>: > Not to speculate on whether A/UX will run on the C610 (I'm not allowed
>: > to comment on that :-)), but it's quite possible to give a C610 a math
>: ^^^
>:
>: Jeez, you act as if you're proud of this.
>I think that you should interpret this as a shame-faced smile. Peon employees
>like myself or John aren't allowed to make decisions on whether or not we can
>discuss the cool new stuff we're working on. It's in my employment contract.
That's basically what I meant. I was assuming most people know that
Apple employees are not allowed to comment on unannounced products, and
that a smiley was in order because I obviously _must_ know _something_,
and the fact that I can't 'speculate' on it is kinda silly. But enough
of that...
The problem from our side is that it is Apple policy not to comment
on unannounced products. A/UX 3.x.x is not an announced product.
Apple also has a policy of not announcing products until just before
ship. While this does have its advantages most of the time, it's a
real problem when the product is necessary to suppost hardware that's
already shipping. I can post this only because Michael Kellner talked
to our business unit manager and obtained permission.
>:The real problem I have is that nobody can buy an A/UX box now (OK,
>:except for the pricey Q950). The IIsi, IIci and Q700 aren't widely
>:available (not that the first two are such great options), and none of
>:the boxes with adequate performance (800, 610, 650) run the beast. Not
>:that anybody would be happy buying an overpriced and underpowered old
>:model even if they could find one on the grey market or used...
You might (or might not, I dunno) be surprised to know that I (and
probably others) in A/UX engineering have been commenting on this
problem since sometime last fall. Believe me, the situation used to
be _really_ scary (and, no, I won't elaborate). Clearly the C610 and
C650 are really good platforms for A/UX, and it's really annoying to
me (as a user) that the support isn't out there already.
>I'll tell you what I know about what's up.
>Don't take this as an official announcement. I'm sure that there will be
>one soon though...
>A/UX 3.x.x is under development. Bug fixes, a more stable Finder environment,
>increased speed, Centris (with FPU's) and Quadra 800 support, 7.1, and faster
>disk I/O (much).
>Don't ask me for any more information. Speculate as you please.
As far as I know, 7.1 is not on the official feature list right now :-(.
I'll add in that A/UX 3.x.x can be expected in Q2. I wish I could be
more specific, but I'm not allowed to be. I hope that the official
announcement happens fairly soon so that I can comment more.
>:Steve "porting to A/UX was either a bad idea or a waste of time" Lincoln
I hope (for our sake) that we can convince you that it wasn't a
bad idea or a waste of time. Apple is pretty seriously pushing
A/UX VARs and third-party software packages right now, and it's
a shame that 3.x.x is coming out so much later than the hardware it
supports...
--John
Disclaimer: Obviously I don't speak for Apple Computer, Inc. While
I'm pretty convinced that A/UX 3.x.x _will_ be shipping in Q2 (and
have been given permission to say as much in a public forum) it is
_not_ an announced product. I don't have the authority to officially
announce it. As Michael Kellner says above, please don't ask me for
any more information. I've said everything I can for right now...
Character is what you are in the dark.
-- Dr. Emilio Lizardo, _Buckaroo_Banzai_
+++John L. Coolidge++++++++...@apple.com+++++++++++++++++++++++
I speak for myself, not for Apple Computer. Copyright 1993 John L. Coolidge.
Copying allowed only if attributed, and if all copies may be further copied.
Path: sparky!uunet!enterpoop.mit.edu!genome.wi.mit.edu!joe
From: j...@genome.wi.mit.edu (Steve Lincoln)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Date: 15 Mar 1993 18:34:37 GMT
Organization: Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research, MIT
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>j...@genome.wi.mit.edu (Steve Lincoln) writes:
>: John L. Coolidge (cool...@apple.com) writes:
>: > Not to speculate on whether A/UX will run on the C610 (I'm not allowed
>: > to comment on that :-)), but it's quite possible to give a C610 a math
>: ^^^
>:
>: Jeez, you act as if you're proud of this.
>I think that you should interpret this as a shame-faced smile. Peon employees
>like myself or John aren't allowed to make decisions on whether or not we can
>discuss the cool new stuff we're working on. It's in my employment contract.
: That's basically what I meant. I was assuming most people know that
: Apple employees are not allowed to comment on unannounced products, and
: that a smiley was in order because I obviously _must_ know _something_,
: and the fact that I can't 'speculate' on it is kinda silly. But enough
: of that...
Johmn - I certainly didn't mean to attack you or any of the A/UX
developers or support staff. You have all done a damned fine job with
the product, and I'm sure that all of us greatly appreciate your
tremendous efforts. Yeah sure, some glitches badly need to be fixed,
but that's par for the course (just do it)... If A/UX weren't any
good, we wouldn't care....
However, I feel perfectly happy with attacking the marketing droids
and others at Apple who (i) very likely don't read this newsgroup
(what's a newsgroup?), and (ii) lie often, and (iii) play head games
with the customers and third party developers, in the interests of
increasing profits.
: The problem from our side is that it is Apple policy not to comment
: on unannounced products. A/UX 3.x.x is not an announced product.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Isn't that itself really the problem?
: Apple also has a policy of not announcing products until just before
: ship. While this does have its advantages most of the time, it's a
: real problem when the product is necessary to suppost hardware that's
: already shipping. I can post this only because Michael Kellner talked
: to our business unit manager and obtained permission.
Thanks for the effort Mike! It's not your fault that the sketchy
information you can give is not anywhere near good enough to fix
things at this late point.
>:The real problem I have is that nobody can buy an A/UX box now (OK,
>:except for the pricey Q950). The IIsi, IIci and Q700 aren't widely
>:available (not that the first two are such great options), and none of
>:the boxes with adequate performance (800, 610, 650) run the beast. Not
>:that anybody would be happy buying an overpriced and underpowered old
>:model even if they could find one on the grey market or used...
: You might (or might not, I dunno) be surprised to know that I (and
: probably others) in A/UX engineering have been commenting on this
: problem since sometime last fall. Believe me, the situation used to
: be _really_ scary (and, no, I won't elaborate). Clearly the C610 and
: C650 are really good platforms for A/UX, and it's really annoying to
: me (as a user) that the support isn't out there already.
Oh, I believe that - It would be damned frustrating to have worked so
hard on an excellent product which is being or has been effectively skuttled.
My reading between the lines: Apple wants to sell expensive boxes as
servers... A/UX is supposed to become the high-end server platform of
choice... therefore, Apple better restrict A/UX to expensive boxes or
people won't pay more than they need to for a server. Smooth. Time
will tell how many "Model 95" servers Apple winds up selling... Obviously,
Apple has made sure that so little A/UX software is out that the A/UX
workstation concept is history...
>I'll tell you what I know about what's up.
>Don't take this as an official announcement. I'm sure that there will be
>one soon though...
You snooze, you lose, in this business. Obviously, the Centris-class
machines should have been out a year ago to compete with 486's, but
that's another flame...
A late product is annoying and costs you customers. A schitzophrenic
plan is unforgivable and costs you developers. How do we know this
won't happen once a year, every year? If so, how can I recommend A/UX
to any of my customers, who I do happen to care about? [And damnit, my
product is FREE! God forbid I would try to make any MONEY using A/UX...]
>A/UX 3.x.x is under development. Bug fixes, a more stable Finder environment,
>increased speed, Centris (with FPU's) and Quadra 800 support, 7.1, and faster
>disk I/O (much). Don't ask me for any more information.
: As far as I know, 7.1 is not on the official feature list right now :-(.
: I'll add in that A/UX 3.x.x can be expected in Q2. I wish I could be
: more specific, but I'm not allowed to be. I hope that the official
: announcement happens fairly soon so that I can comment more.
3.x.x sounds nice. But... would you really have to print up too many
CD's to distribute a patched version of the existing version? Or maybe
it would look funny if 7.0 (freely-redistributable 7.0, as opposed to
7.1) DID run on Centrises with A/UX, while it won't otherwise? Or the
server marketing conspiracy outlined above was too important? Or it
would look too wierd to keep selling Q700's preloaded with A/UX? Or...
Isn't it the case that using the new 3.x.x as the only Centris/Q800
version puts a LOT of time pressure on the 3.x.x development effort?
Wouldn't you rather get a 3.0 patch out for the new boxes so that you
can take your time really doing a good job on the new features in 3.x.x?
Apple's strategy thus gives me LESS confidence that 3.x.x will be more
stable than 3.0. Much less.
: I hope (for our sake) that we can convince you that it wasn't a
: bad idea or a waste of time. Apple is pretty seriously pushing
: A/UX VARs and third-party software packages right now, and it's
: a shame that 3.x.x is coming out so much later than the hardware it
: supports...
Late product: you might have convinced me. No announcement at all: no
way. No wonder so few packages which run on Sun, HP, RS/6000, and
(yes) SCO run on A/UX... including (so far as I can tell) most
important database systems, mail systems, and groupware systems which
would make a server useful. One commercial DB developer I can't name
(but one I'm absolutely sure you would like to have on board) aksed me
(and others) about lots of things regarding A/UX, and has come to the
conclusion not to port... You snooze, you lose.
Again: John, Mike, and others: You've done a great job. You have my
permission to lynch your bosses, however... Sooner or later I'll just
need that 160Meg of disk space back...
I've let my steam out - no more angry flames from me :-) We now return
to the regularly scheduled productive uses of the internet, already in
progress...
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Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Message-ID: <93077.124429ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET>
From: <ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Thursday, 18 Mar 1993 12:44:29 EST
References: <79899@apple.apple.COM> <1993Mar18.151734.13958@netcom.com>
Organization: City University of New York
Lines: 19
Of course, for those who like to believe in Sinister Apple Marketing
Strategies (or SAMS for the illuminati;-), here's an idea:
Apple isn't seriously marketing A/UX 3.0 because they don't actually intend
for anyone to buy it. It is simply an intermediate in their stage to their
next major OS, which they spun off without serious support only so that those
of us desperate for unix, will have it. [ie those willing to go through the
work to get the damn thing.]
I personally like the above idea to give the thing away free. While we're at
it, how about we ask Apple to turn the thing over to the FSF? That would
patch up relations, and then we'd be able to get the thing by anon FTP :-)
BTW, no responses on an available pre-purchase A/UX box for a test drive
out there, and nothing from Apple (Maybe someone should foreward this
thread to their marketing division?)
Cheers,
Aaron
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
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coolidge
From: cool...@sirius.aux.apple.com (John L. Coolidge)
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Sender: ne...@times.aux.apple.com (News Subsystem)
Message-ID: <1993Mar22.233352.12563@times.aux.apple.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 23:33:52 GMT
Reply-To: cool...@apple.com
References: <79899@apple.apple.COM> <1993Mar18.151734.13958@netcom.com>
<93077.124429ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Organization: Open Systems Development, Porting&I/O Group, Apple Computer, Inc.
Lines: 36
<ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Apple isn't seriously marketing A/UX 3.0 because they don't actually intend
>for anyone to buy it. It is simply an intermediate in their stage to their
>next major OS, which they spun off without serious support only so that those
>of us desperate for unix, will have it. [ie those willing to go through the
>work to get the damn thing.]
The problem with this is that Apple (well, Open Systems Business Unit,
aka the old A/UX Group) _is_ seriously marketing A/UX. The 'problem',
from a visibility standpoint, is that it's not being marketed much as
a desktop system, because the current perception is that the desktop
UNIX market (outside of engineering, where price/performance -- not
access to productivity apps -- dominates) hasn't really materialized.
Thus, much of the current A/UX marketing thrust is towards VARs
(Value Added Resellers), who port their software to A/UX and then
resell complete A/UX systems. The VAR program has been a big hit;
lots of VARs out there (as well as VAR-enabling companies, such as
4GL vendors and DBMS companies) love the idea of shipping their stuff
on A/UX.
Personally, I love A/UX as a desktop system, as do most of the people
here. The problem is that the market doesn't seem to want desktop UNIX
right now, despite the best efforts of all the UNIX vendors to provide
it. It's hard marketing even a really great product if the market
doesn't want it.
--John
Looks good on the outside, but...
intel inside
-- found on the net
+++John L. Coolidge++++++++...@apple.com+++++++++++++++++++++++
I speak for myself, not for Apple Computer. Copyright 1993 John L. Coolidge.
Copying allowed only if attributed, and if all copies may be further copied.
Newsgroups: comp.unix.aux
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vsg1.dsg.dec.com!halpin
From: hal...@vsg1.dsg.dec.com (Stephen E. Halpin)
Subject: Re: A/UX & Centris 610 -- angry flame
Message-ID: <1993Mar23.162529.8318@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>
Sender: use...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com (USENET News System)
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
References: <79899@apple.apple.COM> <1993Mar18.151734.13958@netcom.com>
<93077.124429ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET>
Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 16:25:29 GMT
Lines: 56
In article <93077.124429ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET> <ADCMS@CUNYVM.BITNET> writes:
>Of course, for those who like to believe in Sinister Apple Marketing
>Strategies (or SAMS for the illuminati;-), here's an idea:
>
>Apple isn't seriously marketing A/UX 3.0 because they don't actually intend
>for anyone to buy it. It is simply an intermediate in their stage to their
>next major OS, which they spun off without serious support only so that those
>of us desperate for unix, will have it. [ie those willing to go through the
>work to get the damn thing.]
Its not an interim step. Apple was loosing government contracts for not
complying with the appropriate stardards (POSIX, FIPS?) and provided A/UX
as a way of staying in that market. Contrary to popular belief, only "those
of us deperate for unix" would buy UNIX for personal use. Generally the
best window based applications run native on the Mac anyways, and most
users arent going to give up speed so they can run 'xload' locally (think
about it, tar, compress, development tools, text processing, printing,
telnet, ftp, games, etc... are all available on the Mac with a clean UI..)
No company that writes software that requires a 60 SPECmark machine is
going to backport their software to a 5 SPECmark 68030 box that has no
support for graphics acceleration. Specialized tools are the only reason
most companies will put a $15,000 workstation on someones desk instead
of a $2,000 PC, again suggesting UNIX isnt for the average user.
>I personally like the above idea to give the thing away free. While we're at
>it, how about we ask Apple to turn the thing over to the FSF? That would
>patch up relations, and then we'd be able to get the thing by anon FTP :-)
Reality check time: I seriously doubt that the FSF would take up the
activity of supporting a massive software system for a company that
they are currently boycotting. A/UX was a massive undertaking, and
the development team should be congratulated for doing such a fine
job of merging two completely different environments. I would expect
for the number of years that A/UX has been around that Apple has spent
in excess of $10M on it, and if they sell 20,000 copies theyll have to
charge $500 just to make back costs (that doesnt include distribution
costs or the markup of the store that sells it). Another poster pointed
out that giving it away for free might sell more high end systems, but
profit margins on personal systems wont make up that kind of cost. If
it did, Apple wouldnt be selling System 7.x upgrades! The lesson is
that software has a price (and I havent even begun on the cost of
support :-)
>BTW, no responses on an available pre-purchase A/UX box for a test drive
>out there, and nothing from Apple (Maybe someone should foreward this
>thread to their marketing division?)
>
>Cheers,
> Aaron
-Steve
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Stephen E. Halpin hal...@vsg1.dsg.dec.com
"You might just have to waste your life just to live." - Soul Asylum