From: nick_ev...@my-deja.com Subject: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/26 Message-ID: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 615920094 X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 212.33.160.3:8080, 1.0 212.33.160.4:8080, 1.0 x36.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 212.26.18.28 Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Apr 26 14:45:33 2000 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) Hi, Does anyone know where I might get hold of a version of Forth for the IBM Mainframe OS/360? Thanks Munir Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
From: jmayn...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Subject: Re: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/26 Message-ID: <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 615981854 References: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Trace: sv2-xeNJIgIqZjgwSqIhSB5oqWyjOF8G9g7i6oBnr6PzwguzvZy4L96tIR8rLxPEKoa05QWSozk+o2Vb2Zf! 81mj1s7XsZrIjg2WklZ0IA== Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Reply-To: jmayn...@texas.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:22:15 CDT Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:54:02 GMT, nick_ev...@my-deja.com <nick_ev...@my-deja.com> wrote: >Does anyone know where I might get hold of a >version of Forth for the IBM Mainframe OS/360? What platform were you looking to run it on...as an OS started task, or as an IPLable environment? Batch, 3270 console, 1052/3215, or what? 360, 370 mode (with or without DAT), or ESA/390 mode? I've bene idly pondering porting an existing Forth to the 370/390, but haven't had time to pursue it. As it turns out, there's an emulator for that architecture called Hercules (http://www.snipix.freeserve.co.uk/hercules.htm) that would serve as a suitable development environmet. Hercules runs under Linux, and emulates the CPU, as well as disk and tape drives, card readers, card punches, printers, and line-mode (1052 and 3215) and channel-attached non-SNA 3270 CRTs. It's far enough along that it'll run OS/360 and OS/390; the 370 virtual memory OSes (MVS/370, VM/370, and DOS/VSE) probabl;y won't run just yet, but they could be made to run pretty quickly if only the Hercules group could get their hands on clean distributions of them.
From: nick_ev...@my-deja.com Subject: Re: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/27 Message-ID: <8e8v7a$aug$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 616260197 References: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 212.33.160.3:8080, 1.0 212.33.160.4:8080, 1.0 x22.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 212.26.18.29 Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Apr 27 08:54:05 2000 GMT X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDnick_evans Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) I am currently using hercules-370 running MVT. I am new to the Mainframe game and will use hercules-370 as a vehicle to learn. As Forth has its' own environment which I understand, I thought that I might use Forth on OS/360 in order that I can accomplish something using a tool I am familiar with. Till now I am trying to get FSE (Full Screen Editor) from www.cbttape.org to assemble and link (remember I am a beginner). If a Forth was availabe on OS/360 that had a full screen editor and even block file access I might be more productive, than learning 370/Assembler, SVC's, driving 3270 screens. If one does exist I will also study it to learn how it was implemented. If one does not exist I may implement one. It will give me something to get my teeth into. I was kind of hoping that I would use it under TSO using 3270, but it would also allow applications developed to run interactive under TSO, and execute in batch. At the moment my MVT has no ISPF, no panels that I can call from clists, and no full screen editor. If I had Forth/360 I might be able to achieve the same effect. My PII 350Mhz at home gives me 1.3 MIPS running MVT, my PI 200Mhz at work gives me 0.15 MIPS. I thought Forth was originally developed by Chuck Moore on IBM hardware. Should we start with that, or what else would you suggest? --------------------------------------------------------------------- In article <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmayn...@thebrain.conmicro.cx>, jmayn...@texas.net wrote: > On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:54:02 GMT, nick_ev...@my-deja.com > <nick_ev...@my-deja.com> wrote: > >Does anyone know where I might get hold of a > >version of Forth for the IBM Mainframe OS/360? > > What platform were you looking to run it on...as an OS started task, or as > an IPLable environment? Batch, 3270 console, 1052/3215, or what? 360, 370 > mode (with or without DAT), or ESA/390 mode? > > I've bene idly pondering porting an existing Forth to the 370/390, but > haven't had time to pursue it. As it turns out, there's an emulator for that > architecture called Hercules (http://www.snipix.freeserve.co.uk/hercules.htm) > that would serve as a suitable development environmet. Hercules runs under > Linux, and emulates the CPU, as well as disk and tape drives, card readers, > card punches, printers, and line-mode (1052 and 3215) and channel- attached > non-SNA 3270 CRTs. It's far enough along that it'll run OS/360 and OS/390; > the 370 virtual memory OSes (MVS/370, VM/370, and DOS/VSE) probabl;y won't > run just yet, but they could be made to run pretty quickly if only the > Hercules group could get their hands on clean distributions of them. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
From: jmayn...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Subject: Re: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/27 Message-ID: <slrn8ggpve.cbu.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 616399579 References: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> <8e8v7a$aug$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Trace: sv2-v3fjY0kVImEG8hIEhNwOk8PJd954eAlsine6dDaChVgUwNTEVjQSkLd7GhLAhpWfP7qN2mOjuXmlw3a! 9E7pAnoEPmat8suYSZBxQw== Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Reply-To: jmayn...@texas.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:16:41 CDT Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth On Thu, 27 Apr 2000 08:54:05 GMT, nick_ev...@my-deja.com <nick_ev...@my-deja.com> wrote: >If a Forth was availabe on OS/360 that had a full screen editor and >even block file access I might be more productive, than learning >370/Assembler, SVC's, driving 3270 screens. Yes, though at some point you'll need to get involved in the rest of the OS... >I was kind of hoping that I would use it under TSO using 3270, but it >would also allow applications developed to run interactive under TSO, >and execute in batch. Hm. I'm not sure I'd use the TSO environment to run it under; that saves you some work on the terminal end, but not much else. In particular, you'll need to do disk I/O for screen storage. >At the moment my MVT has no ISPF, no panels that I can call from >clists, and no full screen editor. The full-screen editor may be doable, though you won't get ISPF on MVT (it depends heavily on MVS-provided facilities). There's also the minor detail that ISPF is a licensed program product, and so isn't available for fre, unlike MVT. A Forth full-screen editor for the 3270 should actually be pretty simple to implement once you get the basic 3270 handling done; since the 3270 is a block-mode device and all editing is done locally, the Forth screen editor would simply have to handle seeing which lines changed and replacing them in the memory image of the screen and handle a few PF keys for things like saving and navigation from one screen to the next. >My PII 350Mhz at home gives me 1.3 MIPS running MVT, >my PI 200Mhz at work gives me 0.15 MIPS. That's pretty typical, though there are some significant performance enhancements in the works. >I thought Forth was originally developed by Chuck Moore on IBM >hardware. Should we start with that, or what else would you suggest? I remember reading about that; if it's freely available, it'd make a great starting point. Otherwise, we'd have to start with writing enough of a kernel (inner interpreter, some basic words, some amount of I/O) to be able to get things to load from DASD.
From: nick_ev...@my-deja.com Subject: Re: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/28 Message-ID: <8ebppd$eqm$1@nnrp1.deja.com>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 616717605 References: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> <8e8v7a$aug$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ggpve.cbu.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 212.33.160.3:8080, 1.0 212.33.160.4:8080, 1.0 x42.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 212.26.18.29 Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 28 10:39:42 2000 GMT X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDnick_evans Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) > > Yes, though at some point you'll need to get involved in the rest of the > OS... I certainly will. > > A Forth full-screen editor for the 3270 should actually be pretty simple to > implement once you get the basic 3270 handling done; Yes Forth's original block style editing fits nicely with the block mode 3270, and the fact that most text files are FB80. I've seen the macros for disk i/o GET, PUT etc. that look fairly straight forward. I haven't seen anything like a seek call though. Do you have any samples of simple 3270 terminal i/o? Maybe I could reserve one of the 3270 terminals other than the console for Forth work, much like the StarTrek game. It would also seem fairly easy to provide some XEDIT type line prefix commands to the editor and let it edit all FB80 files. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
From: jmayn...@thebrain.conmicro.cx (Jay Maynard) Subject: Re: IBM OS/360 Mainframe Forth Date: 2000/04/30 Message-ID: <slrn8gn2ol.189.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx>#1/1 X-Deja-AN: 617352052 References: <8e6vu2$4mu$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ge9e7.av9.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> <8e8v7a$aug$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <slrn8ggpve.cbu.jmaynard@thebrain.conmicro.cx> <8ebppd$eqm$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Trace: sv2-pvmFeMpJ1W1+F1c6b4PoZdz0oNy22vq23WvVEvhNqlFRGWG3atTANHMn+RZUKpzk0geGOPzYUSGjbpr! qs7UQakL2z7H9otRTIB3Sw== Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Reply-To: jmayn...@texas.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 20:23:33 CDT Newsgroups: comp.lang.forth On Fri, 28 Apr 2000 10:39:42 GMT, nick_ev...@my-deja.com <nick_ev...@my-deja.com> wrote: >I've seen the macros for disk i/o GET, PUT etc. that look fairly >straight forward. I haven't seen anything like a seek call though. There isn't one, really. The sequential access methods are intended to be exactly that. What you wind up doing is using the direct access method to work with the samefile and do blocking/unblocking yourself. The other possibility is simply to suck the whole file into memory and work on it there. A couple of hundred screens of Forth would only soak up a few hundred K, especially if you stick to the classic 16x64 screen size. >Do you have any samples of simple 3270 terminal i/o? Maybe I could >reserve one of the 3270 terminals other than the console for Forth >work, much like the StarTrek game. I don't, but that Star Trek game would be a good place to look... >It would also seem fairly easy to provide some XEDIT type line prefix >commands to the editor and let it edit all FB80 files. Yeah, that's not too hard.