Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Giorgio De Nunzio

Sep 15, 2000

In Jay Maynard's web pages I read that it is possible to run OS/390
(or other "new" op. sys.) on Hercules...

" under the terms of a disaster recovery provision of the OS license "

I am not so expert of this stuff: can somebody explain to me what it
exactly means, and why it is possible?

Thanks
Giorgio

3:56 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Mike Ross

Sep 15, 2000

Whilst I can't quote from text, the usual provision allows the use of
an alternative platform to run the software on, in case the machine
it's licensed on becomes inoperable. So if your primary mainframe
catches fire, you can run your licensed software on another machine,
elsewhere, until such time as your main shop is rebuilt. Using
Hercules as a platform for disaster recovery 'research and testing'
is
one way in which you can potentially legally run 'modern' OSes on
Herc (whilst we're waiting for IBM to Get A Clue).

There is a distinction to be made between 'testing' in which case you
may be running experimentally and/or occasionally, to establish
whether or not it's going to work, and keeping the machine 'hot' i.e.
powered up and IPLed but idle, so that the 'good' status of the
recovery machine is always known... this is my recollection from past
glances at licensing agreements. Either way you're in the excrement
if
IBM catch you running *production* work on your 'recovery' system!

Can anyone comment on which of the above are generally permitted by
standard IBM agreements? Another line of approach is to check whether
you have any *statutory* rights to backup/disaster recovery testing
in
your jusrisdiction, because those may override the things the license
agreement says you can't do... I mean the only way to truly verify
that a set of backup CDs or tapes is good (if you don't have access
to
the originals) is to load them and run them extensively... ;)

Mike

--- In hercules-390@egroups.com, Giorgio De Nunzio
<giorgio.denunzio@u...> wrote:
> In Jay Maynard's web pages I read that it is possible to run OS/390
> (or other "new" op. sys.) on Hercules...
>
> " under the terms of a disaster recovery provision of the OS
license
"
>
> I am not so expert of this stuff: can somebody explain to me what it
> exactly means, and why it is possible?
>
> Thanks
> Giorgio

6:12 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Jay Maynard

Sep 15, 2000

On Fri, Sep 15, 2000 at 05:56:59PM +0200, Giorgio De Nunzio wrote:
> I am not so expert of this stuff: can somebody explain to me what it
> exactly means, and why it is possible?

Mike Ross's message pretty well explains my understanding of the situation.
Basically, it'd be legal to use Hercules to test out its capabilities in a
disaster recovery scenario. I'm not sure it's prudent to depend on Hercules
as a disaster recovery platform just yet, but testing it as such could well
reveal bugs that need fixing...

6:39 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Giorgio De Nunzio

Sep 16, 2000

Thanks Mike and Jay!
The only small words that somewhat worry me are those...

> "it'd be legal" to use Hercules to test out its capabilities in a

I'd have preferred to see "It is legal...".
So the matter is not clear.
No chance to have someone from IBM clarify that?
We are licensed for OS/390 1.2 on a P/390, and have no machine
devoted to Disaster and Recovery, so it would be at the same time useful
and interesting for us to have Hercules running as a D&R box.

A last question on the subject: when one use a machine for D&R, is there
any burocratic procedure to follow (e.g. telling IBM)?

Thanks again
Giorgio

4:52 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

colormecurious@...

Sep 16, 2000

Giorgio, if you have a P/390 with an OS/390 license, why not look at
a copy of your software license to see what the exact terms are for
placement of the software on a DR system? You can post the text to
the net for all of us to study.

One interesting wrinkle: If I declare the use of IBM's software on
Hercules as a DR copy, does that simultaneously violate the HPL as a
non-personal use, as IBM's software was presumably licensed to you
for
commercial purposes. Moreover, if Herc was licensed for free use
as a DR machine, every commercial shop can have it in there doing
real
work in the interest of checking out their DR installation. And if
that strikes you as a subtrefuge, then isn't also the DR claim
allowing the running the IBM OS on Herc?

Colormecurious

Disclaimer: I have interests which may be preceived as, but which not
necessarily are, in conflict with the goals of this e-group.

--- In hercules-390@egroups.com, Giorgio De Nunzio
<giorgio.denunzio@u...> wrote:
> Thanks Mike and Jay!
> The only small words that somewhat worry me are those...
>
> > "it'd be legal" to use Hercules to test out its capabilities in a
>
> I'd have preferred to see "It is legal...".
> So the matter is not clear.
> No chance to have someone from IBM clarify that?
> We are licensed for OS/390 1.2 on a P/390, and have no machine
> devoted to Disaster and Recovery, so it would be at the same time
useful
> and interesting for us to have Hercules running as a D&R box.
>
> A last question on the subject: when one use a machine for D&R, is
there
> any burocratic procedure to follow (e.g. telling IBM)?
>
> Thanks again
> Giorgio

5:23 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Stuart Tener

Sep 16, 2000

Colormecurious:

While it would be quite interesting to have posted the licensing
agreement (IBMs), there are some problems with that as well. As I
understand all the licensing agreements from IBM are indeed
COPYRIGHTED themselves, and as such, are also considered to be trade
secrets under appropriate federal and state statute dependent upon
jurisdiction.

Dependent upon the jurisdiction you reside in, publishing trade
secrets (even if they are documents) could potentially carry
criminally chargable effectiveness.

Before posting a license which may be copyrighted, and/or a trade
secret, especially in a state or commenwealth where it might carry
criminal effect, I would make sure that since posting it could amount
to publication in at least every US state or commonwealth, you ought
to consider this before taking such an action.

Further licensing agreements between countries might well be
different, I doubt IBM would appreciate your disclosing to "the
world" (as the net does) the differences between the rights and
responsibilities of a US licensee vs. say a French licensee.

just my 3 cents worth.

Stuart
Beverly Hills, CA

--- In hercules-390@egroups.com, colormecurious@e... wrote:
> Giorgio, if you have a P/390 with an OS/390 license, why not look
at
> a copy of your software license to see what the exact terms are for
> placement of the software on a DR system? You can post the text to
> the net for all of us to study.
>
> One interesting wrinkle: If I declare the use of IBM's software on
> Hercules as a DR copy, does that simultaneously violate the HPL as
a
> non-personal use, as IBM's software was presumably licensed to you
> for
> commercial purposes. Moreover, if Herc was licensed for free use
> as a DR machine, every commercial shop can have it in there doing
> real
> work in the interest of checking out their DR installation. And if
> that strikes you as a subtrefuge, then isn't also the DR claim
> allowing the running the IBM OS on Herc?
>
> Colormecurious
>
> Disclaimer: I have interests which may be preceived as, but which
not
> necessarily are, in conflict with the goals of this e-group.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In hercules-390@egroups.com, Giorgio De Nunzio
> <giorgio.denunzio@u...> wrote:
> > Thanks Mike and Jay!
> > The only small words that somewhat worry me are those...
> >
> > > "it'd be legal" to use Hercules to test out its capabilities in
a
> >
> > I'd have preferred to see "It is legal...".
> > So the matter is not clear.
> > No chance to have someone from IBM clarify that?
> > We are licensed for OS/390 1.2 on a P/390, and have no machine
> > devoted to Disaster and Recovery, so it would be at the same time
> useful
> > and interesting for us to have Hercules running as a D&R box.
> >
> > A last question on the subject: when one use a machine for D&R,
is
> there
> > any burocratic procedure to follow (e.g. telling IBM)?
> >
> > Thanks again
> > Giorgio

5:42 pm

Re: Hercules as a Disaster and Recovery System

Jay Maynard

Sep 16, 2000

On Sat, Sep 16, 2000 at 05:42:23PM -0000, Stuart Tener, IT3, USNR-R wrote:
> While it would be quite interesting to have posted the licensing
> agreement (IBMs), there are some problems with that as well. As I
> understand all the licensing agreements from IBM are indeed
> COPYRIGHTED themselves,

True, so far.

> and as such, are also considered to be trade
> secrets under appropriate federal and state statute dependent upon
> jurisdiction.

Nope. They're not trade secrets unless everyone to whom they are disclosed
first signs an agreement to keep them secret; I don't believe that's the
case here. If not, they they can be quoted for defined purposes, under the
fair use exceptions to the copyright laws, one of which is the purpose of
comment or criticism.

> Further licensing agreements between countries might well be
> different, I doubt IBM would appreciate your disclosing to "the
> world" (as the net does) the differences between the rights and
> responsibilities of a US licensee vs. say a French licensee.

I'd be extremely surprised if that information isn't already available to
anyone who makes a sufficiently thorough search for it.

8:07 pm