Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
ekrief@...
Oct 1, 2001
Hi,
I haven't been here for a few month and I guess I've missed some of
the action. Can anybody fill me in?
Is there a way to get tcpip support on windows as I can get on Linux?
Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?
I now I can run it under Linux/390, but I don't have enough disk
space on my MF, my P/390 died last month after the IBM technician
tried for a couple of days to give him cpr :-).
Help please..
Any new info will be useful
Ela
3:56 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
phil@...
Oct 2, 2001
> Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?
Not that I'm aware of.
11:27 pm
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Jay Maynard
Oct 3, 2001
On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 06:27:35AM -0000, phil@...
wrote:
> > Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?
> Not that I'm aware of.
What are you referring to, Phil?
Hercules itself may be run legally. Those OSes that are in the public domain
- OS/360, DOS/VS, MVS 3.8, VM/370 r6 - and those that are otherwise freely
available - the various Linux incarnations - may be run as well. The later
OSes may possibly be run legally on your PC if the license terms allow it;
this is only true under limited circumstances, so read your license.
4:33 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
phil@...
Oct 3, 2001
--- In hercules-390@y..., Jay Maynard <jmaynard@c...> wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 06:27:35AM -0000, phil@i... wrote:
> > > Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?
> > Not that I'm aware of.
>
> What are you referring to, Phil?
>
> Hercules itself may be run legally.
This is the part that interests me. See below.
> Those OSes that are in the public domain
> - OS/360, DOS/VS, MVS 3.8, VM/370 r6 - and those that are otherwise
freely
> available - the various Linux incarnations - may be run as well.
The later
> OSes may possibly be run legally on your PC if the license terms
allow it;
> this is only true under limited circumstances, so read your license.
That part doesn't interest me. The operating system, middleware and
application licences are business as usual. Note that someone
recently posted Partnerworld Ts&Cs on the IBM mainframe list that
seem to imply a specific platform relationship. You may find the
post by searching www.deja.com for the list bit.listserv.ibm-main -
it's fairly recent.
I note that in your private email you didn't attempt to obfuscate the
issue as you did above - you know very well that my concern does not
lie with software licensing but with the use of the intellectual
property needed to provide an ES/390 environment.
And unless and until I see either a formal statement here from IBM or
a post here os some reliable document from IBM (which does not
include the ciscussion on software patents you're so fond of using
out of context) my concerns will remain the same. I would hate to
see anyone invest more than hobby time in something that suddenly
vaporises.
As it happens, I would be more than happy for IBM to do just that.
There is a serious need for a very low-cost 64-bit development
platform at present, primarily to act as a porting target for 64-bit
UNIX applications. It's not a z/OS issue - there are enough
platforms available for z/OS 1.1 31-bit
5:42 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Roger Bowler
Oct 3, 2001
--- In hercules-390@y..., phil@i... wrote:
> I would hate to see anyone invest more than hobby time in
> something that suddenly vaporises.
Phil, your concern for us technies is touching. But given your
affiliations, and your previous contributions to this forum, I
somehow doubt it.
> As it happens, I would be more than happy for IBM to do just that.
I suspect it was just careless juxtaposition, but if by "just that"
you mean "vaporize Hercules" then yes, you do seem to be putting your
FUD generator into top gear in an effort to bring this about.
> There is a serious need for a very low-cost 64-bit development
> platform at present, primarily to act as a porting target for
> 64-bit UNIX applications.
So, exactly what are you now doing to persuade all those influential
IBM contacts (that you keep telling us about) that Hercules fills
that need?
Roger Bowler
7:22 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
phil@...
Oct 3, 2001
> Phil, your concern for us technies is touching. But given your
> affiliations, and your previous contributions to this forum, I
> somehow doubt it.
I think you know very little about my affiliations, but I stand by
all my previous comments.
> > As it happens, I would be more than happy for IBM to do just that.
>
> I suspect it was just careless juxtaposition, but if by "just that"
> you mean "vaporize Hercules" then yes, you do seem to be putting
your
> FUD generator into top gear in an effort to bring this about.
If you read my comments in the Devil's Dictionary I maintain only
partly for fun ( http://www.isham-research.com/dd.html ) you'll find
some comments about the price of mainframe software in general and
about Linux in particular.
If you detected any juytaposition, nothing was meant by it.
> > There is a serious need for a very low-cost 64-bit development
> > platform at present, primarily to act as a porting target for
> > 64-bit UNIX applications.
>
> So, exactly what are you now doing to persuade all those
influential
> IBM contacts (that you keep telling us about) that Hercules fills
> that need?
I'm currently trying to locate every 64-bit xNIX software developer
in Central Europe who is NOT currently in the IBM partner programmes,
so as to develop an idea for the size of the market. The study will
be partly funded by IBM.
If you look back over the major architectural transitions such as XA,
ESA, Sysplex - it takes the middleware vendors about four years each
time. This time, we don't have that long and there is a separate
requirement to 'catch' readily portable applications that are already
in 64-bit mode - it's pointless to talk about porting these to 31-bit
System/390 Linux. IBM is interested in the big ones - vide the demo
of mySAP at CeBIT, but who is searching the low end of the market?
Small applications on mainframes don't work under System/390 charging
schemes, but might under the new Linux pricing policy.
11:34 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Oct 3, 2001
I would *really* like to believe you, but given your previous statements
here, and your known affliations with a product you perceive Hercules as
possiblke competition for, well...
This is pretty much just [F]ear [U]ncertainty and [D]oubt
you are trying to spread amoong folks.
Speaking only for myself, I find your constant harping to be tiresome.
Please stop.
-Paul Raulerson
Quoting phil@...:
> <html><body>
> <tt>
> --- In hercules-390@y..., Jay Maynard <jmaynard@c...> wrote:<BR>
> > On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 06:27:35AM -0000, phil@i... wrote:<BR>
> > > > Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?<BR>
> > > Not that I'm aware of.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > What are you referring to, Phil?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Hercules itself may be run legally.<BR>
> <BR>
> This is the part that interests me. See below.<BR>
> <BR>
> > Those OSes that are in the public domain<BR>
> > - OS/360, DOS/VS, MVS 3.8, VM/370 r6 - and those that are otherwise
> <BR>
> freely<BR>
> > available - the various Linux incarnations - may be run as well. <BR>
> The later<BR>
> > OSes may possibly be run legally on your PC if the license terms <BR>
> allow it;<BR>
> > this is only true under limited circumstances, so read your
> license.<BR>
> <BR>
> That part doesn't interest me. The operating system, middleware and
> <BR>
> application licences are business as usual. Note that someone <BR>
> recently posted Partnerworld Ts&Cs on the IBM mainframe list that <BR>
> seem to imply a specific platform relationship. You may find the <BR>
> post by searching www.deja.com for the list bit.listserv.ibm-main - <BR>
> it's fairly recent.<BR>
> <BR>
> I note that in your private email you didn't attempt to obfuscate the <BR>
> issue as you did above - you know very well that my concern does not <BR>
> lie with software licensing but with the use of the intellectual <BR>
> property needed to provide an ES/390 environment.<BR>
> <BR>
> And unless and until I see either a formal statement here from IBM or <BR>
> a post here os some reliable document from IBM (which does not <BR>
> include the ciscussion on software patents you're so fond of using <BR>
> out of context) my concerns will remain the same. I would hate to
> <BR>
> see anyone invest more than hobby time in something that suddenly <BR>
> vaporises.<BR>
> <BR>
> As it happens, I would be more than happy for IBM to do just that.
> <BR>
> There is a serious need for a very low-cost 64-bit development <BR>
> platform at present, primarily to act as a porting target for 64-bit <BR>
> UNIX applications. It's not a z/OS issue - there are enough <BR>
> platforms available for z/OS 1.1 31-bit. <BR>
> <BR>
> </tt>
>
> <br>
>
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1:33 pm
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Oct 3, 2001
--- In hercules-390@y..., praul@i... wrote:
> I would *really* like to believe you, but given your previous
statements
> here, and your known affliations with a product you perceive
Hercules as
> possiblke competition for, well...
a) What affiliation?
b) Hah.
> This is pretty much just [F]ear [U]ncertainty and [D]oubt
> you are trying to spread amoong folks.
To what end, pray? And FUD in public? FUD only works if it's
whispered - I'm right out here in public and ANYONE who gets either a
legitimate PID/PWD licence to run IBM software on Hercules OR a
statement from IBM that they have no objections can shut me up on
this subject for ever.
On the other hand I did see this text recently:
The S/390 Application Developers CD is a special packaging
of S/390 Software for the exclusive use of product
development and support. It is restricted for use by
qualified PartnerWorld for Developers members on S/390
development systems that were purchased through our program,
or through approved IBM Business Partners that are fully
authorized to sell the FLEX-ES emulator from Fundamental
Software, Inc.. The S/390 ADCD SW stack is licensed to the
specific system by machine type/model serial number and
cannot be transferred to any other machine. Use of the
S/390 ADCD SW on any other system or SW emulator is strictly
prohibited and is in violation of the terms and conditions
of the loan agreement.
Now - if IBM have no objection to Hercules, why don't they list
it? Its specific omission and the comment about "other ...
SW emulator" tends to give me the opposite view.
> Speaking only for myself, I find your constant harping to be
tiresome.
> Please stop.
>
> -Paul Raulerson
>
>
>
> Quoting phil@i...:
>
> > <html><body>
> > <tt>
> > --- In hercules-390@y..., Jay Maynard jmaynard@c... wrote:<BR>
> > > On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 06:27:35AM -0000, phil@i...
wrote:<BR>
> > > > > Is there a way to run Hercules legally on my PC?
<BR>
> > > > Not that I'm aware of.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > What are you referring to, Phil?<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > Hercules itself may be run legally.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > This is the part that interests me. See below.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Those OSes that are in the public domain<BR>
> > > - OS/360, DOS/VS, MVS 3.8, VM/370 r6 - and those that are
otherwise
> > <BR>
> > freely<BR>
> > > available - the various Linux incarnations - may be run as
well. <BR>
> > The later<BR>
> > > OSes may possibly be run legally on your PC if the license
terms <BR>
> > allow it;<BR>
> > > this is only true under limited circumstances, so read your
> > license.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > That part doesn't interest me. The operating system,
middleware and
> > <BR>
> > application licences are business as usual. Note that
someone <BR>
> > recently posted Partnerworld Ts&Cs on the IBM mainframe list
that <BR>
> > seem to imply a specific platform relationship. You may
find the <BR>
> > post by searching www.deja.com for the list bit.listserv.ibm-
main - <BR>
> > it's fairly recent.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I note that in your private email you didn't attempt to obfuscate
the <BR>
> > issue as you did above - you know very well that my concern does
not <BR>
> > lie with software licensing but with the use of the intellectual
<BR>
> > property needed to provide an ES/390 environment.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > And unless and until I see either a formal statement here from
IBM or <BR>
> > a post here os some reliable document from IBM (which does not
<BR>
> > include the ciscussion on software patents you're so fond of
using <BR>
> > out of context) my concerns will remain the same. I would
hate to
> > <BR>
> > see anyone invest more than hobby time in something that suddenly
<BR>
> > vaporises.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > As it happens, I would be more than happy for IBM to do just
that.
> > <BR>
> > There is a serious need for a very low-cost 64-bit development
<BR>
> > platform at present, primarily to act as a porting target for 64-
bit <BR>
> > UNIX applications. It's not a z/OS issue - there are enough
<BR>
> > platforms available for z/OS 1.1 31-bit. <BR>
> > <BR>
> > </tt>
> >
> > <br>
> >
> > <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->
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> a=b178349800057000"><img
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> > <BR>
> > Files and archives at:<BR>
> > <a
> > href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-
> 390">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390</a><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Get the latest version of Hercules from:<BR>
> > <a
> >
>
href="http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules">http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules
</a></tt>
> > <br>
> >
> > <br>
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1:44 pm
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Adam Thornton
Oct 3, 2001
On Wed, Oct 03, 2001 at 08:44:39PM -0000, phil@...
wrote:
> a) What affiliation?
That's exactly what I'm asking, Phil.
> On the other hand I did see this text recently:
> The S/390 Application Developers CD is a special packaging
> of S/390 Software for the exclusive use of product
> development and support. It is restricted for use by
> qualified PartnerWorld for Developers members on S/390
> development systems that were purchased through our program,
> or through approved IBM Business Partners that are fully
> authorized to sell the FLEX-ES emulator from Fundamental
> Software, Inc.. The S/390 ADCD SW stack is licensed to the
> specific system by machine type/model serial number and
> cannot be transferred to any other machine. Use of the
> S/390 ADCD SW on any other system or SW emulator is strictly
> prohibited and is in violation of the terms and conditions
> of the loan agreement.
>
> Now - if IBM have no objection to Hercules, why don't they list
> it? Its specific omission and the comment about "other ...
> SW emulator" tends to give me the opposite view.
Do the same comments you've been making about Hercules apply to UMX as
well? I notice that UMX is not listed in that statement either. Is it
your claim that UMX is illegal? Does IBM object to UMX?
Adam
--
adam@...
"My eyes say their prayers to her / Sailors ring her bell / Like a moth
mistakes a light bulb / For the moon and goes to hell." -- Tom Waits
1:53 pm
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
phil@...
Oct 3, 2001
> > a) What affiliation?
>
> That's exactly what I'm asking, Phil.
Some (most, in fact) of my affiliations are non-disclosure matters.
I'm no longer involved with NMC, however, and haven't been since
August. If that helps.
> > Now - if IBM have no objection to Hercules, why don't they list
> > it? Its specific omission and the comment about "other ...
> > SW emulator" tends to give me the opposite view.
>
> Do the same comments you've been making about Hercules apply to UMX
as
> well? I notice that UMX is not listed in that statement either.
Is it
> your claim that UMX is illegal? Does IBM object to UMX?
I don't know. This is a Hercules board not a UMX board, and I think
Jay really would have a point if we broke into a discussion of that.
3:24 pm
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
Scott Vetter
Oct 3, 2001
How about if we create a yahoo group called hercules-legal? That way you
folks can chat about this topic as much as you wish. As opposed to those that
read the messages here to help others and to learn of new problems and
solutions.
Respectfully,
Scott Vetter
-------------
phil@... wrote:
> > > a) What affiliation?
> >
> > That's exactly what I'm asking, Phil.
>
> Some (most, in fact) of my affiliations are non-disclosure matters.
> I'm no longer involved with NMC, however, and haven't been since
> August. If that helps.
>
> > > Now - if IBM have no objection to Hercules, why don't they list
> > > it? Its specific omission and the comment about "other ...
> > > SW emulator" tends to give me the opposite view.
> >
> > Do the same comments you've been making about Hercules apply to UMX
> as
> > well? I notice that UMX is not listed in that statement either.
> Is it
> > your claim that UMX is illegal? Does IBM object to UMX?
>
> I don't know. This is a Hercules board not a UMX board, and I think
> Jay really would have a point if we broke into a discussion of that.
>
>
> Community email addresses:
> Post message: hercules-390@yahoogroups.com
> Subscribe: hercules-390-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> Unsubscribe: hercules-390-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> List owner: hercules-390-owner@yahoogroups.com
>
> Files and archives at:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/hercules-390
>
> Get the latest version of Hercules from:
> http://www.conmicro.cx/hercules
>
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4:37 pm
Phil Payne's interest in Hercules...
Fish
Oct 3, 2001
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20010710082655.26100.qmail%40fsmail.net&out
put=gplain
Pay particular attention to the last paragraph where he states:
"For users in Europe, I'm currently working on
the European introduction of Fundamental's product
with NMC Informationssysteme in Hamburg."
It seems to me Mr. Payne has a vested interest in Flex and views Hercules as a
threat.
(Full text of post follows below):
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< BEGIN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
From: phil@... (Phil Payne)
Newsgroups: bit.listserv.ibm-main
Subject: Re: S/370 PC board
Date: 10 Jul 2001 01:28:07 -0700
Organization: None
Lines: 19
Message-ID: <20010710082655.26100.qmail@...>
Reply-To: IBM Mainframe Discussion List <IBM-MAIN@...>
NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.newsguy.com
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Jul 2001 08:28:07 GMT
> If you need VM and/or MVS you could get a P/390 board or, for more bucks, you
could get one of the offerings from either T3, at www.t3t.com, or Intelliware,
at www.intelliware.com. Both of which run System 390 software in emulation, and
not to bad at that, from all accounts.
Both use FLEX-ES from Fundamental Software - http://www.funsoft.com
As Dan Colby (IBM System/390) said at Partnerworld, this is now the ONLY
solution available below 60 MIPS. IBM markets it on the xSeries 430 (NUMA-Q) as
EFS - Enabled for System/390. There's a relatively complete discussion, as I've
already said, on http://www.isham-research.freeserve.co.uk/numaq.html
A 1GHz Intel processor works out very roughly at 18 MIPS. Software charge are
based on fractions of GOLC.
For users in Europe, I'm currently working on the European introduction of
Fundamental's product with NMC Informationssysteme in Hamburg. They have a test
and demo machine just north of Hamburg (near the airport) under 'open doors' -
users and potential partners (or even the wildly curious) are invited to email
info@...
_______________________________________________________________________
FSmail - Get your free web-based email from Freeserve: www.fsmail.net
----------------------------------------------------------------------
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to listserv@... with the message: GET IBM-MAIN INFO
Search the archives at http://bama.ua.edu/archives/ibm-main.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< END >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As someone else once asked, is his interest in Hercules the same as yours?
--
"Fish" (David B. Trout)
fish@...
5:29 pm
Re: Phil Payne's interest in Hercules...
phil@...
Oct 4, 2001
> http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=20010710082655.26100.qmail%
40fsmail.net&out
> put=gplain
>
> Pay particular attention to the last paragraph where he states:
>
> "For users in Europe, I'm currently working on
> the European introduction of Fundamental's product
> with NMC Informationssysteme in Hamburg."
>
> It seems to me Mr. Payne has a vested interest in Flex and views
Hercules as a
> threat.
It seems to me you've just proved the old adage that Usenet is a
write-only medium.
a) This has been posted before.
b) It's no longer true.
c) Even THAT fact has also been posted here.
Sorry - no such vested interest at present. My main interest at
present is the potential for low-end 64-bit z/Architecture platforms -
where Fundamental currently doesn't have a product.
It might be more productive to stop looking for my agenda and start
looking for IBM's _explicit_ permission to use their IP.
12:26 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?
phil@...
Oct 4, 2001
> How about if we create a yahoo group called hercules-legal? That
way you folks can chat about this topic as much as you wish. As
opposed to those that
> read the messages here to help others and to learn of new problems
and solutions.
There are already various offline discussions going on. They don't
serve to alert anyone potentially investing money in commercial
ventures based on a Hercules strategy to the effect that its status
is, in this respect, undefined.
By and large this is not an issue for perhaps 90+% of Hercules
users. I'm not sure what the status is when a full-function version
of Hercules is used to run public domain operating systems and thus
the new features aren't exploited, but the chance that IBM will come
after a hobbyist when only public domain software in involved is
vanishingly tiny.
I didn't start this thread - someone asked whether Hercules was legal
on a PC and the answers he received were the usual deflections away
from his actual question and into software licensing issues - where
there are indeed answers available. Software licensing is not the
issue, and neither is any agenda of mine. It's a VERY simple
question that the originators and proponents of Hercules have
singularly and noticeably failed to answer - do they have permission
to use IBM's intellectual property in Hercules or not?
Very simple question. Yes or no.
12:38 am
Re: Phil Payne's interest in Hercules...
Roger Bowler
Oct 4, 2001
--- In hercules-390@y..., phil@i... wrote:
> Sorry - no such vested interest at present. My main interest
> at present is the potential for low-end 64-bit z/Architecture
> platforms - where Fundamental currently doesn't have a product.
Phil,
Let me explain to you how this group works. Generally, people join
because they have an interest in, maybe even a passion for, the S/390
architecture. For many of us, S/390 provides us with our income so
we have a vested interest in seeing IBM continuing to successfully
sell this platform. As Vic Cross has explained, we believe that
Hercules can help in a small way to further this goal.
Often someone will find what they believe to be a problem with
Hercules. If they have the necessary skills and inclination, they
will fix the problem and contribute the fix to the group. Otherwise
they will point out the problem (once) and wait for someone else to
fix it. Those who continually whine about a problem but do nothing
to fix it are generally not helpful.
You believe you have found a non-technical problem with Hercules.
You keep dropping hints that you have inside information and
influential contacts within IBM. It seems therefore that you are in
a position to help fix the problem (if indeed it is a problem).
If you want to support Hercules, here is how you can do something
concrete to help. Set yourself the challenge of persuading PWD to
adopt Hercules as the low-end 64-bit developer offering that you say
you want to see. If you succeed, your name will be celebrated in
lights on the Hercules roll of honour. If you are unwilling or
unable to do this, then shut up, sit back, and watch the rest of us
do something productive.
Roger Bowler
1:19 am
Re: Phil Payne's interest in Hercules...
phil@...
Oct 4, 2001
> If you want to support Hercules, here is how you can do something
> concrete to help. Set yourself the challenge of persuading PWD to
> adopt Hercules as the low-end 64-bit developer offering that you
say
> you want to see. If you succeed, your name will be celebrated in
> lights on the Hercules roll of honour. If you are unwilling or
> unable to do this, then shut up, sit back, and watch the rest of us
> do something productive.
That's an interesting challenge. An awful lot of people in a long
chain through IBM need to be convinced, and kept convinced while
others are convinced (think of herding cats - the story of 1/3rd GOLC
would make your hair curl) and then Hercules would need to meet
certain commitments (provision for intellectual property protection,
certification as a complete implementation, etc.)
Leaving aside the difficulty of the latter, the first thing you need
is a convincing business case. That's a general rule in commerce.
One esential component of such a business case is an estimate of
demand or potential. Now - what did I say I was currently doing just
a few posts ago?
All this came about because I posted five words. They're still true.
2:41 am
Re: Is there any legal way to run Hercules?Jay Maynard
Oct 4, 2001
On Thu, Oct 04, 2001 at 07:38:57AM -0000, phil@...
wrote:
> There are already various offline discussions going on. They don't
> serve to alert anyone potentially investing money in commercial
> ventures based on a Hercules strategy to the effect that its status
> is, in this respect, undefined.
Are there folks out there investing money in commercial ventures based on a
Hercules strategy? I'd be more than a little surprised if there were,
because of something you've brushed off: Nobody's going to be running a
commercial venture based on Linux running on Hercules running on something
else, so the only folks doing that are going to be using IBM's proprietary
OSes, and so will have to obtain a license to do just that.
> By and large this is not an issue for perhaps 90+% of Hercules
> users. I'm not sure what the status is when a full-function version
> of Hercules is used to run public domain operating systems and thus
> the new features aren't exploited, but the chance that IBM will come
> after a hobbyist when only public domain software in involved is
> vanishingly tiny.
I absolutely agree here...yet those are the folks who are most likely to be
scared off by continually harping on questions about the legality of
Hercules itself.
> I didn't start this thread - someone asked whether Hercules was legal
> on a PC and the answers he received were the usual deflections away
> from his actual question and into software licensing issues - where
> there are indeed answers available.
I don't suppose it occurred to you that he wasn't asking about your pet
issue, but might rather have simply mis-stated a question about running IBM
OSes on Hercules on his PC?
> Software licensing is not the
> issue, and neither is any agenda of mine. It's a VERY simple
> question that the originators and proponents of Hercules have
> singularly and noticeably failed to answer - do they have permission
> to use IBM's intellectual property in Hercules or not?
> Very simple question. Yes or no.
I can assure you that Hercules is on IBM's radar, even unto the intellectual
property people. They are well aware of the issues. They can also find me
quite easily, as my address and phone number are posted on my home page. If
they had any objections at all, they need only point one of their lawyers at
me to write a letter. That they have not done so speaks volumes. I cannot
believe that they would object to Hercules' alleged use of IBM intellectual
property and not take the simple step of a cease and desist letter.
I know you discount the authority of the statement made to Bruce Perens and
Eric Raymond, but I believe it to be an accurate statement of IBM policy. I
asked several IBMers at SHARE what they would expect to happen if someone
made a statement about IBM policy to public figures knowing it would be
published as a statement about IBM policy, and that statement turned out to
be wrong, and to a man they all said they'd expect to be terminated and the
statement repudiated. That's exactly what I would have expected them to say,
and exactly what I would expect to happen. Because of that, I believe that
IBM would, in fact, not take action based on its patents against open source
developers.
It's simple for IBM to prove me wrong. Until then, I believe that IBM has
decided at least to ignore the issue, if not explicitly to allow Hercules to
proceed.
If IBM decides to let me know officially that they object to Hercules'
alleged use of its intellectual property, you may rest assured that this
group will be the first to know. (The open source press will likely be the
second.) Unless and until that happens, I suggest that people quit worrying
about it; it's not an issue unless and until IBM makes it one.
5:15 am
Copyright 2001