Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

avrahamreiss

Apr 10, 2002

Hello members,

I'm considering recommending to my company - a software
developer of M/F products -to examine the possibility of
setting up z\OS on Hercules.

The basic idea is to run z\VM under which z\OS, VSE and
VM would run; I'd need DB/2 v7 and CICS TS SERVER both for
OS/390 and for VSE.

A review of Hercules by one Moshe Bar in Byte magazine (8/2000)
states as follows:

"The S/390 emulator can load OS/390 and VS/ESA, but not
VM/ESA because of two missing machine instructions on
which VM/ESA heavily relies (SIE and VM Assist)."
(end quote)

Can someone tell me what the above-quoted limitation prevnets
me from doing, and can I realize my 'dream' of running z\OS
64 (or at least 32) bit Hercules.

Since I'm a novice in this particular field, can someone also
point out what questions I have not asked, but should have?

Thanks,

Avraham Reiss

12:51 pm

Re: Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

Jay Maynard

Apr 10, 2002

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 12:51:32PM -0000, avrahamreiss wrote:
> A review of Hercules by one Moshe Bar in Byte magazine (8/2000)
> states as follows:
> "The S/390 emulator can load OS/390 and VS/ESA, but not
> VM/ESA because of two missing machine instructions on
> which VM/ESA heavily relies (SIE and VM Assist)."
> (end quote)

This is an old review. The noted limitations have been removed, and Hercules
2.15 has been reported to run both z/OS in 64-bit mode and z/VM.

> Since I'm a novice in this particular field, can someone also
> point out what questions I have not asked, but should have?

The biggest issue is software licensing. It has been reported that IBM has
licensed OS/390 on one customer's Herucles box (as long as it was running on
an IBM server), but it has also been reported that IBM is not willing to
license its software for Hercules. Check with IBM in your country.

1:16 pm

Re: Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

avrahamreiss

Apr 10, 2002

Thansk very much Jay, both for the speed and content of your reply.

Could I trouble you to verify that the layout I listed in my previous
email (z\OS 64-bit, OS/390, VSE/ESA and VM/ESA under Z/VM) will all
run OK, including CICS TS for OS/390 and VSE, and DB\2 v7?

Avraham Reiss.

--- In hercules-390@y..., Jay Maynard <jmaynard@c...> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 12:51:32PM -0000, avrahamreiss wrote:
> > A review of Hercules by one Moshe Bar in Byte magazine (8/2000)
> > states as follows:
> > "The S/390 emulator can load OS/390 and VS/ESA, but not
> > VM/ESA because of two missing machine instructions on
> > which VM/ESA heavily relies (SIE and VM Assist)."
> > (end quote)
>
> This is an old review. The noted limitations have been removed, and
Hercules
> 2.15 has been reported to run both z/OS in 64-bit mode and z/VM.
>
> > Since I'm a novice in this particular field, can someone also
> > point out what questions I have not asked, but should have?
>
> The biggest issue is software licensing. It has been reported that
IBM has
> licensed OS/390 on one customer's Herucles box (as long as it was
running on
> an IBM server), but it has also been reported that IBM is not
willing to
> license its software for Hercules. Check with IBM in your country.

1:22 pm

Re: Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

Jay Maynard

Apr 10, 2002

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 01:22:34PM -0000, avrahamreiss wrote:
> Could I trouble you to verify that the layout I listed in my previous
> email (z\OS 64-bit, OS/390, VSE/ESA and VM/ESA under Z/VM) will all
> run OK, including CICS TS for OS/390 and VSE, and DB\2 v7?

Good question. I know of no reason why it wouldn't, but I haven't heard
anyone say they've tried all of that and had it run.

1:55 pm

Re: Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

Mark Perry

Apr 10, 2002

I saw an answer to the instruction question, but for me the questions would
be more memory related. Your proposed configuration would be memory
demanding on a mainframe and therefore I would assume (dangerous thing to
do) that it would be on a PC.

So let me ask the questions:

1) What is the maximum amount of memory per Hercules "machine"? - it looks
like 256MB hope I'm wrong.
2) How many copies of Hercules can be run on a single PC simultaneously?
3) Is there an IA-64 version of Hercules - i.e. can I ever get above 4GB?

Thanks group.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: avrahamreiss [mailto:areiss@...]
Sent: 10 April 2002 14:52
To: hercules-390@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [hercules-390] Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

Hello members,

I'm considering recommending to my company - a software
developer of M/F products -to examine the possibility of
setting up z\OS on Hercules.

The basic idea is to run z\VM under which z\OS, VSE and
VM would run; I'd need DB/2 v7 and CICS TS SERVER both for
OS/390 and for VSE.

A review of Hercules by one Moshe Bar in Byte magazine (8/2000)
states as follows:

"The S/390 emulator can load OS/390 and VS/ESA, but not
VM/ESA because of two missing machine instructions on
which VM/ESA heavily relies (SIE and VM Assist)."
(end quote)

Can someone tell me what the above-quoted limitation prevnets
me from doing, and can I realize my 'dream' of running z\OS
64 (or at least 32) bit Hercules.

Since I'm a novice in this particular field, can someone also
point out what questions I have not asked, but should have?

Thanks,

Avraham Reiss

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5:49 pm

Re: Can hercules run z\OS 64 bit, and what about z\VM

Jay Maynard

Apr 10, 2002

On Wed, Apr 10, 2002 at 07:49:39PM +0200, Mark Perry wrote:
> 1) What is the maximum amount of memory per Hercules "machine"? - it looks
> like 256MB hope I'm wrong.

The maximum is currently 256 MB, though 1 GB is feasible (and, in fact,
would only take a minor change to one source module), at least on a Linux
host. Allocating large amounts of memory on Windows is more problematical.

In any case, allocating more memory to Hercules than the host system has in
real memory, less 64-128 MB for host system use, is a Bad Idea, and should
only be done if the alternative is emulated paging. As cheap as memory is,
if you plan to run a large Hercules system, you should fill your host system
with as much RAM as it will hold.

> 2) How many copies of Hercules can be run on a single PC simultaneously?

As many as you think you can get away with. The only restrictions are that
they cannot (at least not currently) share DASD, and each must have a
different CNSLPORT.

> 3) Is there an IA-64 version of Hercules - i.e. can I ever get above 4GB?

Hercules is not architecture dependent (except for some integrity issues on
SMP hosts; the current fixes for that are IA-32 dependent). Hercules has
been compiled and run on IA-64, though not recently (as far as I know..I did
it back when I was working at Compaq). Note that there are other options
besides Pentium for getting around the 4 GB barrier; Hercules does run well
on the Alpha (modulo a weird telnet bug which I haven't had a chance to look
at).

6:32 pm