Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!samsung!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!uflorida!
mephisto!udel!mmdf
From: WH...@ccvax.iastate.edu (Marc Barrett)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Amiga Competitiveness.
Message-ID: <31531@nigel.ee.udel.edu>
Date: 25 Sep 90 19:59:41 GMT
Sender: m...@ee.udel.edu
Lines: 40
Posted: Tue Sep 25 20:59:41 1990
Since it's introduction in 1985, Commodore has allowed the Amiga
to slowly lose it's competitiveness. At first, there was a more than
$5,000 gap between the Amiga and the closest machines (in price) that
could rival it's capabilities.
The Amiga 3000 is still competitive in the high-end, though, as
everything about it -- from the Zorro II bus to the graphics to the
hard drive -- is just plain fast. The Amiga 500 is also still very
competitive in the low-end, offering a good GUI, bundled software,
and a low price.
The Amiga 2000 is a whole other story. The Amiga 2000 is not
competitive at all. In fact, I can get 20Mhz i386 systems with 4M
of RAM, 1.44M floppy, 40M hard drive, VGA card, and VGA monitor, for
only $100 more than the *EDUCATION* price of the A2000HD. Clearly,
something desperately needs to be done to make the A2000 competitive
again. Right now it isn't, period.
I would like to see the current A2000 totally discontinued, and
replaced by a new system that is almost exactly the same, except
that uses a 14Mhz 68020 on the motherboard instead of the 68000,
has a 32-bit path to the Chip RAM for the CPU, and Zorro III
slots. Oh, yes, this new A2000 should sell at the same prices
as the old A2000.
This would be just what the doctor ordered for the A2000. This
would keep it competitive for a little while longer, in a fiercely
conpetitive market. If this is not done, though, I don't see how
the A2000 can survive much longer being a vastly underpowered and
overpriced machine in this market. In all reality, I don't see
how a weak 7Mhz 68000 system can survive against 20Mhz 386 systems
for the same price.
BTW, making the A2000 68020-based would make for a nice orderly
progression up the Amiga product line. The A500 would be 68000-based,
the A2000 would be 68020-based, and the A3000 would be 68030-based.
-MB-
Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!
crackers!fang!jeff
From: j...@fang.clearpoint.com (Jeffrey J. Griglack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Amiga Competitiveness.
Message-ID: <1254@crackers.clearpoint.com>
Date: 26 Sep 90 11:57:21 GMT
References: <4661@crash.cts.com>
Sender: use...@crackers.clearpoint.com
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA
Lines: 32
Posted: Wed Sep 26 12:57:21 1990
In article <4...@crash.cts.com> se...@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham) writes:
>In-Reply-To: message from WH...@ccvax.iastate.edu
>
>
>Question is though...those low-cost i386 clones, are they from Compaq? AST?
>DELL? Or any other "leading" brand of clone? Or are they Saturday night
>specials, made up of whatever was cheapest that week, and a case made from
>plastic that was rejected from Revel?
>
>Sean
I have seen some major brands for very low prices. I have actually toyed
with the idea of selling my Amiga 2000 and getting a 386 machine. The big
hurdle, cost-wise, is an operating system (I hate MSDOS). Windows 3.0 makes
this option a little more attractive until you play with Windows and realize
how bulky (I'm not sure that that is the word I am looking for) it is.
A faster 68020, even with 16 bit data access, is a reasonable alternative
to the 68000. It may be time to retrofit the 2000 with an '020 and an
MMU so there can be memory protection.
I do not see an '020 card addition as a good alternative. It cheaper to
fit the '020 onto the mother board. What do you say, Comadore?
Jeff Griglack
--
Jeff Griglack | Now I quess I have to tell 'em that I
j...@fang.clearpoint.com | have no cerebellum -- The Ramones
Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!sunic!uupsi!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!
crackers!fang!jeff
From: j...@fang.clearpoint.com (Jeffrey J. Griglack)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Amiga Competitiveness.
Message-ID: <1255@crackers.clearpoint.com>
Date: 26 Sep 90 12:27:52 GMT
References: <4661@crash.cts.com> <1254@crackers.clearpoint.com>
Sender: use...@crackers.clearpoint.com
Organization: Clearpoint Inc., Hopkinton, MA
Lines: 7
Posted: Wed Sep 26 13:27:52 1990
>A faster 68020, even with 16 bit data access, is a reasonable alternative
^^
Whoops, I meant 24---------|
--
Jeff Griglack | Now I quess I have to tell 'em that I
j...@fang.clearpoint.com | have no cerebellum -- The Ramones
Path: gmdzi!unido!mcsun!uunet!aplcen!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!
zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!mit-eddie!rutgers!cbmvax!daveh
From: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Newsgroups: comp.sys.amiga
Subject: Re: Amiga Competitiveness.
Message-ID: <14672@cbmvax.commodore.com>
Date: 26 Sep 90 20:05:49 GMT
References: <4661@crash.cts.com> <1254@crackers.clearpoint.com>
Reply-To: da...@cbmvax.commodore.com (Dave Haynie)
Organization: Commodore, West Chester, PA
Lines: 43
Posted: Wed Sep 26 21:05:49 1990
In article <1...@crackers.clearpoint.com> j...@fang.clearpoint.com
(Jeffrey J. Griglack) writes:
>In article <4...@crash.cts.com> se...@pro-party.cts.com (Sean Cunningham)
writes:
>>In-Reply-To: message from WH...@ccvax.iastate.edu
>A faster 68020, even with 16 bit data access, is a reasonable alternative
>to the 68000. It may be time to retrofit the 2000 with an '020 and an
>MMU so there can be memory protection.
From Commodore's point of view, it would be cheaper to build a basic 68020
machine than to build a basic A2000 and then add in a coprocessor board. At
least, the finished unit would cost less -- witness the A3000 vs. the A2500.
However, there are other considerations. How may machines do they expect to
sell? Is there something an '020 box could give you that the A2000 + '020
doesn't? Etc. You have to justify the new product and the expense it takes
to design it. There are quite a few considerations. One of the reasons the
A2000 and A3000 have Coprocessor slots, designed specifically to support new
and faster processors, is that we like to offer a CPU upgrade to a system
without requiring the user to buy an entire new system. If you design in
such upgrade potential, there's often very little difference in CPU performance
between the upgraded generation N machine and the basic generation N+1 machine.
Things like performance enhancements in other areas, time, number of computers
you're making, etc. help define where exactly you go to the next system
generation.
I wouldn't expect to see any new '020 + 68851 MMU machines from anyone, ever
again. The cost of the '020 + '851 is now more than the cost of the '030,
and even if the '020 cost starts dropping to zero, this is probably still
going to be the case.
>I do not see an '020 card addition as a good alternative. It cheaper to
>fit the '020 onto the mother board. What do you say, Commodore?
For the owner of an A2000, the add-in 68020 or 68030 is always going to cost
less than the equivalent in a complete new system.
>Jeff Griglack | Now I quess I have to tell 'em that I
>j...@fang.clearpoint.com | have no cerebellum -- The Ramones
--
Dave Haynie Commodore-Amiga (Amiga 3000) "The Crew That Never Rests"
{uunet|pyramid|rutgers}!cbmvax!daveh PLINK: hazy BIX: hazy
Standing on the shoulders of giants leaves me cold -REM